US strikes deal w/ Taliban to remove troops from Afghanistan (1 Viewer)

[Heathen]

Surprised I didn't see it posted anywhere. And to preface -- I know there are too many contextual complexities to name regarding this.

Props to this administration for pushing to get this done. Endless war shouldn't be what American citizens view as 'normal'.

This would be a huge win for Americans and Afghanis if this works out as planned:

Afghan conflict: US and Taliban sign deal to end 18-year war

President Trump says it is "time after all these years to bring our people back home".

www.bbc.com

The US and Nato allies have agreed to withdraw all troops within 14 months if the militants uphold the deal.

President Trump said it had been a "long and hard journey" in Afghanistan. "It's time after all these years to bring our people back home," he said.

Talks between the Afghan government and the Taliban are due to follow.

Under the agreement, the militants also agreed not to allow al-Qaeda or any other extremist group to operate in the areas they control.

 

[zztop]

Yeah, I actually like Biden and think he's done alright so far. But this issue has been poorly handled. I've seen several comments in the media describing the Administration as being caught flat-footed, and I tend to agree. I also think Biden knew this could happen and is just feigning ignorance by saying no one thought this would happen this fast, when the intel available suggested otherwise.

Yeah the only reason I could understand would be that nobody thought it would be such a rapid capitulation. Otherwise, I think everyone should have had some common sense to know that there would be more than a few trying to evacuate - and then set up a path to make that as effortless as possible

 

[DaveXA]

Yeah the only reason I could understand would be that nobody thought it would be such a rapid capitulation. Otherwise, I think everyone should have had some common sense to know that there would be more than a few trying to evacuate - and then set up a path to make that as effortless as possible

And, he even stated that the "chaos" wasn't unexpected. He just sounds more like he's trying to cover his bases and weasel out of the responsibility of cleaning the mess up. He's getting a lot of criticism from overseas allies as well. He didn't really give anyone a heads up that this was going to happen in the timeframe it did, and there have been mixed messages coming from the State Department, DOD and his own Administration.

For him to say this couldn't have been done better is disingenuous at best.

It's obviously not all his fault, not even mostly his fault, but the messaging, execution and plan seem either incomplete or poorly done. The criticism is reasonable imo.

 

[SaintForLife]

 

[Lapaz]

Yeah, I actually like Biden and think he's done alright so far. But this issue has been poorly handled. I've seen several comments in the media describing the Administration as being caught flat-footed, and I tend to agree. I also think Biden knew this could happen and is just feigning ignorance by saying no one thought this would happen this fast, when the intel available suggested otherwise.

His message has continually changed. Initially he said everything would be fine, and nothing like Vietnam. Later, he said no one advised him that the fall could be so quick. Later he said it wasn't unanimous that a fall could occur so quickly. Later he said that he would get all Americans out, but wouldn't commit to those that helped us. At that point, he was saying we wouldn't go get those Americans, implying they had to get to Kabul on their own. Later he suggested that we might go get them. Now he is saying that he will also prioritize those that helped us.

Frankly, he hasn't been frank from the beginning. I'm beginning to think that Trump is still in office, and he's wearing a Biden mask. He should tell us that we'll stay until we're sure that we've gotten everyone out that is practicable. He should tell the Taliban that it is in their interest to work with us to get everyone out, otherwise we'll be there for much longer than they would like.

 

[J-DONK]

And yet America managed to politicize football, a great unifying force. A society that is not united becomes tribal and balkanized. I see tribalism between the right a left wingers. I can see elements of that tribalism right here in this forum. The Happy Holidays versus Xmas is a good example of tribal loyalty.

The Threat of Tribalism

The Constitution once united a diverse country under a banner of ideas. But partisanship has turned Americans against one another—and against the principles enshrined in our founding document.

www.theatlantic.com

The Hidden Tribes of America

A year-long project of More in Common launched in October 2018. Download the ReportTake the QuizDownloadthe Midterms Update

hiddentribes.us

What is really scary about this tribalism is that people in each side believe all the tenets of of left wing or right wing extremism . I have been told I am not real for being a centrist. People desperately seek to place people in the right or left tribe. To make matters worse America has embraced race ID politics which as expected caused the right to also embrace race ID politics.

You missed the point. The outrage that the right is constantly engaged in is manufactured for the express purpose of dividing. How many issues have been forgotten that were the end of America? Does anyone remember when hordes of immigrant caravans were going to overrun the country? That was only 2 years ago.

 

[not2rich]

You missed the point. The outrage that the right is constantly engaged in is manufactured for the express purpose of dividing. How many issues have been forgotten that were the end of America? Does anyone remember when hordes of immigrant caravans were going to overrun the country? That was only 2 years ago.

But one constant nowadays is that it's ALWAYS immigrants. A couple of weeks ago, it was immigrants bringing Delta and increase COVID infections; now, it's Afghans coming to your neighborhood.

 

[not2rich]

And, he even stated that the "chaos" wasn't unexpected. He just sounds more like he's trying to cover his bases and weasel out of the responsibility of cleaning the mess up. He's getting a lot of criticism from overseas allies as well. He didn't really give anyone a heads up that this was going to happen in the timeframe it did, and there have been mixed messages coming from the State Department, DOD and his own Administration.

For him to say this couldn't have been done better is disingenuous at best.

It's obviously not all his fault, not even mostly his fault, but the messaging, execution and plan seem either incomplete or poorly done. The criticism is reasonable imo.

I agree. Even if trying to prop up the non-Taliban government was always a lost cause, and even if Trump already capitulated to the Taliban and laid the groundwork for Biden to finish it (something the MAGA crowd predictably memory-holed), the execution was not good. Incompetent even.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

Bro, I could have told you that in 2003!

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

Biden definitely forking this up big time which is strange because this is so easily solvable. That said, it's disingenuous for Trumpers to worry about the lives of the Afghan people. I mean... do they really think the atrocities will stop in a year? Never mind the atrocities happening in an innumerable amount of other countries around the globe. But the news cameras aren't pointed over there.

 

[not2rich]

Biden definitely forking this up big time which is strange because this is so easily solvable. That said, it's disingenuous for Trumpers to worry about the lives of the Afghan people. I mean... do they really think the atrocities will stop in a year? Never mind the atrocities happening in an innumerable amount of other countries around the globe. But the news cameras aren't pointed over there.

Trumpers are worried about the Afghan people? HA! HA! They're more worried about keeping the Afghan people out of the U.S.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

Right, it's just low hanging fruit to rip Biden on. Average Trumper, hell, the average American, really doesn't care about what happens to people in other countries.

 

[Bolo]

Biden definitely forking this up big time which is strange because this is so easily solvable. That said, it's disingenuous for Trumpers to worry about the lives of the Afghan people. I mean... do they really think the atrocities will stop in a year? Never mind the atrocities happening in an innumerable amount of other countries around the globe. But the news cameras aren't pointed over there.

Nobody but the soldiers who were on the ground with the afghan people/security forces probably actually care about the people over there. No politician, no-one in the news media, this is just a weaponized tragedy opposing sides will use to attack the other with. You can see right through the media bs when they say, "Oh, what about that poor Afghani child being lifted up in the air." It's so fake, you wouldn't give two craps about that child if you couldn't use it to attack Biden and his admin with.

Meanwhile, the Biden camp will sit there and blame Trump for the whole thing, even though he hasn't been in office for seven months and will mislead people over the fact the rapid take over of Afghanistan by the Taliban really ramped up over this summer, and this administration lacked the foresight and awareness to act quickly knowing it was quickly becoming a shirtshow fast and were multiple steps behind the eight-ball. The Trump blame for the manner we got out of that country is just low quality bait and no voter should fall for it, hold the current administration accountable for botching the evacuation plan over the summer.

I'm in the camp of no matter when we finally pulled the plug on this whole thing, it was gonna be real ugly. It's going to get even more ugly once no Americans are around with the murdering and torture. I just don't like the manner in how it happened and how this current admin didn't see this being a rapid deteriorating situation that was unfolding fast. Hopefully they correct it and get most out from the airport. I would respect the whole thing more if you just take the fat L, learn from it and move on.

 

[Xeno]

I'm in the camp of no matter when we finally pulled the plug on this whole thing, it was gonna be real ugly. It's going to get even more ugly once no Americans are around with the murdering and torture. I just don't like the manner in how it happened and how this current admin didn't see this being a rapid deteriorating situation that was unfolding fast. Hopefully they correct it and get most out from the airport. I would respect the whole thing more if you just take the fat L, learn from it and move on.

It's not going to be any more ugly than it has been for years and years. US media has duped the American public into believing that we brought freedom and equality to Afghanistan. They've fed us the line that women and children all over the country have been enjoying freedoms they hadn't before. And it was all in service of their bottom line and so they never have to admit they were wrong in their own hawkishness 18 years ago.

The reality is that none of that was true except in very small pockets. The Taliban never left Afghanistan. They never stopped persecuting girls and women. They never stopped shaking down villages all over the country. Young girls were still being sold into marriages. None of it ever actually stopped.

The only thing the US did was install a crony government that was emptying the coffers left and right. Nobody should have expected the Afghan army to fight back. Why? Because in many cases, their pay was being stolen by government officials. Afghan soldiers were selling their service equipment to the Taliban because it was the only source of income they had.

Everything we're seeing today is being interpreted as an abject failure because the American public bought the lie that our government and media have been pushing for almost 20 years.

If anyone thinks a few thousand US troops were holding that entire country together then I've got a bridge to sell you. The only thing that held it together was US money and now that that's gone the curtain is being pulled back. Nothing ever changed in Afghanistan. Nothing will ever change in Afghanistan until the people decide they don't want to be led by religious fundamentalists and fight back.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

weaponized tragedy

Brilliant phrase. I'm stealing that.

 

[MT15]

 

[MT15]

I think Tom Nichols fairly well nailed it here.

Afghanistan Is Your Fault

The American public now has what it wanted.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[MT15]

I really like Daniel Dale.

 

[zztop]

imagine if the (R) was this quick to impeach one of their own

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., introduced a trio of impeachment resolutions against President Biden on Friday, calling for him to be removed from office over his handling of the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan and other alleged offenses.

"In seven short months, Joe Biden has caused America to lose the respect of the entire world. The evidence is clear and his actions are so egregious that he must be impeached," Greene said in a statement.