Trump loyalists in Congress to challenge Electoral College results in Jan. 6 joint session (Update: Insurrectionists storm Congress)(And now what?) (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

I guess it's time to start a thread for this. We know that at least 140 members of Congress have pledged to join the objection. Under federal law, if at least one member of each house (HOR and Senate) objects, each house will adjourn the joint session for their own session (limited at two hours) to take up the objection. If both houses pass a resolution objecting to the EC result, further action can take place. If both houses do not (i.e. if one or neither passes a resolution), the objection is powerless and the college result is certified.

Clearly this is political theater as we know such a resolution will not pass the House, and there's good reason to think it wouldn't pass the Senate either (with or without the two senators from Georgia). The January 6 joint session is traditionally a ceremonial one. This one will not be.

Many traditional pillars of Republican support have condemned the plan as futile and damaging. Certainly the Trump loyalists don't care - and many are likely doing it for fundraising purposes or to carry weight with the fraction of their constituencies that think this is a good idea.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32717.pdf

 

[brandon]

I think we need to quit using conservative when we mean Trumpists. It’s a cult of personality, and they shouldn’t be allowed to appropriate the term conservative when they don’t really care a whit about conservative values.

I would put the entire Sedition Caucus into the Trumpist camp, as well as anyone who thinks the election was stolen.

Explain Mitch McConnell.

Definitely a conservative, never a Trumpist, not in the sedition caucus, absolutely enabled the situation that led us to this point (gave clearance to the sedition caucus to speak on the floor).

Conservatives don’t get a free pass here.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

If you voted for the racist, you're a racist. If you voted for the fascist, you're a fascist. If you voted for the conman, you got conned.

Donald Trump never hid what he is. He made it clear as day just like he has for the last forty years. Nobody can say they didn't know. There were so many people shouting it from day one of his candidacy, including other Republicans, that no one can say they just didn't hear these warnings.

Some percentage of his voters liked that about him, some percentage was apathetic about it and some percentage only cared about voting R against D.

Exactly.

And even supposing for a second that they arent racists if they voted for him- they, at the very least, decided that racism and fascism were not dealbreakers... So they can suck it.

 

[MT15]

Explain Mitch McConnell.

Definitely a conservative, never a Trumpist, not in the sedition caucus, absolutely enabled the situation that led us to this point (gave clearance to the sedition caucus to speak on the floor).

Conservatives don’t get a free pass here.

okay, he doesn’t get a pass, I definitely agree. He’s a cynical power-hungry dirt bag who used Trump to achieve his own political goals. I don’t think he “gave clearance“ for the sedition caucus though, and he tried his best to hold his senators back from challenging the electoral vote certification. I do agree that he enabled Trump by going along with the lies about election integrity and not speaking out about the result of the election until after the date in December when the electors cast their votes.

But I put him in a different category than my sister in law, for example, who didn’t like Trump even though she is a Republican. Never asked her if she voted for him the first time or not, just assumed she didn’t. Even though she didn’t like him, she ended up voting for him in 2020, which really surprised me tbh. She said she really struggled with it, but in the end she was so worried about a slide into socialism that would affect her grandchildren’s lives that she voted for Trump. That’s how worried she is by one of the big lies used by the Republican Party to scare people into voting for them.

So she is a conservative, but not a Trumpist, and voted for Trump this past election. I don’t agree with her, but I don’t think she “deserves” the attack on our democracy any more than I do, not really.

Not to be confused with my sister, who is a Trumpist, lol. I don’t really discuss politics with her. Not anymore.

 

[MT15]

So as more and more videos and information about the actual insurrection come to light, people’s opinions seem to be shifting. I know I have been shocked by some of the more violent videos that have come out recently, especially when juxtaposed with the relatively tame videos from the day it happened.

This is pretty much bipartisan condemnation.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Let’s see.

Active duty is actively on duty.

Reservists are in reserve.

National Guard operates under the governor of the state they represent and can be federalized if needed.

Have I missed anything particularly relevant? Are you suggesting that NG/reservists are not military, do not have access to weapons, and are not trained in the tactics of the United States military?

Active Duty is regular military, they serve 24/7 and they are held to a higher standard than Guard/Reserve.

Guard/Reserve are your weekend warriors, they are civilians first, servicemen second and with that, they are held to a different disciplinary standard than AD members. Those differences in standards led to incidences like the Abu Ghraib
incident and many others that I'm sure we all read about.

Does it bother me that ex military member are guilty of this? Yes it does, but no less than it does that any American would be involved in this. Hell, I would not be surprised that if there were Active Duty members at the Capitol that day. I will say this though, I was a little surprised that he was an Air Force Reserve pilot. Members USAF were not radical about anything.

In any case, we are talking individuals here, wake me when start seeing military units acting out...AD or not.

 

[brandon]

Active Duty is regular military, they serve 24/7 and they are held to a higher standard than Guard/Reserve.

Guard/Reserve are your weekend warriors, they are civilians first, servicemen second and with that, they are held to a different disciplinary standard than AD members. Those differences in standards led to incidences like the Abu Ghraib
incident and many others that I'm sure we all read about.

Does it bother me that ex military member are guilty of this? Yes it does, but no less than it does that any American would be involved in this. Hell, I would not be surprised that if there were Active Duty members at the Capitol that day. I will say this though, I was a little surprised that he was an Air Force Reserve pilot. Members USAF were not radical about anything.

In any case, we are talking individuals here, wake me when start seeing military units acting out...AD or not.

You typed more words, but they are no more relevant than the last words you typed.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

So as more and more videos and information about the actual insurrection come to light, people’s opinions seem to be shifting. I know I have been shocked by some of the more violent videos that have come out recently, especially when juxtaposed with the relatively tame videos from the day it happened.

This is pretty much bipartisan condemnation.

I would assume the 3% "Democratic" support are your typical Dixiecrats from Louisiana.

 

[brandon]

I would assume the 3% "Democratic" support are your typical Dixiecrats from Louisiana.

So we’re at 1 out if every 5 people you meet thinks that shirt was ok.

 

[jdn9201]

okay, he doesn’t get a pass, I definitely agree. He’s a cynical power-hungry dirt bag who used Trump to achieve his own political goals. I don’t think he “gave clearance“ for the sedition caucus though, and he tried his best to hold his senators back from challenging the electoral vote certification. I do agree that he enabled Trump by going along with the lies about election integrity and not speaking out about the result of the election until after the date in December when the electors cast their votes.

But I put him in a different category than my sister in law, for example, who didn’t like Trump even though she is a Republican. Never asked her if she voted for him the first time or not, just assumed she didn’t. Even though she didn’t like him, she ended up voting for him in 2020, which really surprised me tbh. She said she really struggled with it, but in the end she was so worried about a slide into socialism that would affect her grandchildren’s lives that she voted for Trump. That’s how worried she is by one of the big lies used by the Republican Party to scare people into voting for them.

So she is a conservative, but not a Trumpist, and voted for Trump this past election. I don’t agree with her, but I don’t think she “deserves” the attack on our democracy any more than I do, not really.

Not to be confused with my sister, who is a Trumpist, lol. I don’t really discuss politics with her. Not anymore.

I agree with you - even though it’s harder for me to do so now, we have to be really careful that we don’t write off every Trump voter as a racist. I’ve shared my background a couple of times here, but I live in Ga and am in my late 30s, female, and have been a lifelong Republican. I voted for Trump in 2016 merely because he wasn’t Hillary. Even then, I never understood how or why the right embraced him especially Christians. He’s been a NY Democrat his entire life. But anyhow, I held my nose and voted for him.

Around 2018/2019, my opinion started to change. A relative on my husbands side who lives in upstate NY - he and his wife are lifelong Democrats. He started engaging in discussion with me why I voted for Trump, but he did so in a very respectful way. He also started sending me NYT articles. Admittedly I’ve always not liked the NYT and called it a liberal rag but I decided to read them. The first one I read was about all of his fishy tax moves. As a CPA, I think most of what he did was legal however reading it made me feel dirty. The 2nd big article that came out about his tax returns showing he owed more than $400m in debt started to make me feel like an idiot for voting for him. He didn’t care if people thought he was a tax cheat. He cared that this persona of him being some business genius would be blown apart.
Anyhow, through discussion with this relative, I flipped sides and voted for Biden. I don’t agree with the Democrat platform on a lot and probably never will but Biden isn’t Bernie nor is he Elizabeth Warren. I consider him a moderate. I also voted for both of the democrat senators in our runoff. This election was the first time ever I voted Democrat on anything.

My point being is that there are many Trump voters that are racists etc but there are also many that are not. Many of my friends who voted for Trump again will admit they don’t like him as a person but they like his policies and they also like he’s pro life. I think if the left had approached Trump voters just as my relative did, there could have been some healing after 2016 and a good amount of his supporters could have flipped sides like I did.

 

[The moose]

But these are all ex-military. There’s no way ACTIVE military would do such a thing, because you only go crazy AFTER leaving the military.

Ok well these guys were active police officers, but that doesn’t count, because it’s not the military.

I would wait on that one. I don't know many that did not have some type of military background in big city police departments.

This is not the good old days and Barney Fife gets a job. Really cities want to hire people with skills the military teaches them. I have read that the number is around 25%.

Considering we have been in active conflicts forever it seems that number is just gonna go up.

That is also the real problem with policing we treat certain humans like we are at war.

 

[Xeno]

I agree with you - even though it’s harder for me to do so now, we have to be really careful that we don’t write off every Trump voter as a racist. I’ve shared my background a couple of times here, but I live in Ga and am in my late 30s, female, and have been a lifelong Republican. I voted for Trump in 2016 merely because he wasn’t Hillary. Even then, I never understood how or why the right embraced him especially Christians. He’s been a NY Democrat his entire life. But anyhow, I held my nose and voted for him.

Around 2018/2019, my opinion started to change. A relative on my husbands side who lives in upstate NY - he and his wife are lifelong Democrats. He started engaging in discussion with me why I voted for Trump, but he did so in a very respectful way. He also started sending me NYT articles. Admittedly I’ve always not liked the NYT and called it a liberal rag but I decided to read them. The first one I read was about all of his fishy tax moves. As a CPA, I think most of what he did was legal however reading it made me feel dirty. The 2nd big article that came out about his tax returns showing he owed more than $400m in debt started to make me feel like an idiot for voting for him. He didn’t care if people thought he was a tax cheat. He cared that this persona of him being some business genius would be blown apart.
Anyhow, through discussion with this relative, I flipped sides and voted for Biden. I don’t agree with the Democrat platform on a lot and probably never will but Biden isn’t Bernie nor is he Elizabeth Warren. I consider him a moderate. I also voted for both of the democrat senators in our runoff. This election was the first time ever I voted Democrat on anything.

My point being is that there are many Trump voters that are racists etc but there are also many that are not. Many of my friends who voted for Trump again will admit they don’t like him as a person but they like his policies and they also like he’s pro life. I think if the left had approached Trump voters just as my relative did, there could have been some healing after 2016 and a good amount of his supporters could have flipped sides like I did.

You're the wrong person to ask obviously, but what are Trump's policies? And how can someone be pro-life when they've paid women they've had affairs with to have abortions and stay quiet about it? These are things we've known about Donald Trump since before he ran for office but people not only ignored them, they actively claimed the opposite was true.

I'm sorry, but your friends were either conned or they're lying or both. We've known who Donald Trump is for a long, long, LONG time. The evidence has been there all along and growing every day. 74 million people either ignored it or didn't care about it. At least another 70 million who didn't even vote also said they were okay with this. Two-thirds of this country either want a racist, fascist conman as president or don't care if he is.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Let's be precise, radical, conservative fanatics are getting their due. I would really like people to make more of an effort to be precise in both their thinking and their language. We need to individually help reverse the trend of stereotyping and essentializing individuals based on having any association or affiliation with a group.

To be clear you’re asking us to be politically correct, yeah?

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Has anyone seen oye/ayo lately?

id love to hear his opinions on all this

Last thing I read on FB is that he was generally disgusted with politics writ large and seemed to be taking one of his not infrequent breaks

 

[zztop]

Came across this morning.



anyone surprised?

 

[superchuck500]

More and more video is coming out of attack on the Capitol. And it's horrifying and disgusting.

Yet today, we still have not heard from Capitol Police, the Secret Service, the Sergeant-at-Arms, or anyone about why this happened.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

I think we need to quit using conservative when we mean Trumpists. It’s a cult of personality, and they shouldn’t be allowed to appropriate the term conservative when they don’t really care a whit about conservative values.

I would put the entire Sedition Caucus into the Trumpist camp, as well as anyone who thinks the election was stolen.

I’m entirely ready for that discussion- though I think it’s very similar to those who self-brand as ‘Christian’ - it’s a label without actual meaning at this point since the overwhelming majority of ‘Christians’ do not practice Christian values
Same with ‘conservative’

 

[zztop]

More and more video is coming out of attack on the Capitol. And it's horrifying and disgusting.

Yet today, we still have not heard from Capitol Police, the Secret Service, the Sergeant-at-Arms, or anyone about why this happened.

I don't remember reading about this except today, but someone got trampled to death in the riot

oh and a lot of things got urinated on

 

[zztop]

You're the wrong person to ask obviously, but what are Trump's policies? And how can someone be pro-life when they've paid women they've had affairs with to have abortions and stay quiet about it? These are things we've known about Donald Trump since before he ran for office but people not only ignored them, they actively claimed the opposite was true.

I'm sorry, but your friends were either conned or they're lying or both. We've known who Donald Trump is for a long, long, LONG time. The evidence has been there all along and growing every day. 74 million people either ignored it or didn't care about it. At least another 70 million who didn't even vote also said they were okay with this. Two-thirds of this country either want a racist, fascist conman as president or don't care if he is.

I'm not the one you asked but theres a certain mindset people will take. For example when the stormy Daniels stuff came out, the head of evangelicals was interviewed about this and how they could support a guy who was involved in something like that, and he said https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...angelicals-donald-trump-stormy-daniels-216498 “We kind of gave him—‘All right, you get a mulligan. You get a do-over here,’

There was some congressman, I forget who b/c it was back in like 2017, who when asked about some of the outrageous things trump said, he said he either "didn't hear them" or "I choose to ignore what he says" (I don't remember the exact words, but essentially putting his head in the sand).