Trump loyalists in Congress to challenge Electoral College results in Jan. 6 joint session (Update: Insurrectionists storm Congress)(And now what?) (3 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

I guess it's time to start a thread for this. We know that at least 140 members of Congress have pledged to join the objection. Under federal law, if at least one member of each house (HOR and Senate) objects, each house will adjourn the joint session for their own session (limited at two hours) to take up the objection. If both houses pass a resolution objecting to the EC result, further action can take place. If both houses do not (i.e. if one or neither passes a resolution), the objection is powerless and the college result is certified.

Clearly this is political theater as we know such a resolution will not pass the House, and there's good reason to think it wouldn't pass the Senate either (with or without the two senators from Georgia). The January 6 joint session is traditionally a ceremonial one. This one will not be.

Many traditional pillars of Republican support have condemned the plan as futile and damaging. Certainly the Trump loyalists don't care - and many are likely doing it for fundraising purposes or to carry weight with the fraction of their constituencies that think this is a good idea.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32717.pdf

 

[efil4]

This can’t be right. I was told there’s no way the military would follow an illegal order.

And before someone says that a few members of the military does not constitute “the military,” I will again remind you that it’s time to stop being naive. This is evidence of members of the military willing to follow the illegal orders of a president to storm the Capitol.

You don’t have to have all of the military brass on board, or even a majority of the military. If you have enough guys with access to planes, tanks, and ships who are willing to go along for the ride, then congrats, you’ve got a military coup.

If Stan Brock shows up to my house for a party, the Saints didnt come. Stan Brock did.

You dont saunter into the motor pool with a handful of guys, hop in an M1 Abrams and simple drive it off the yard. Just as you dont hop in the pilots seat of an F18 and head to DC.

THE MILITARY, as was originally discussed, was THE MILITARY. Having several military members join in the protest does not CONSTITUTE the MILITARY following an illegal order. Period. There wasnt a platoon or battalion of locked and loaded service members marching on the US Capitol at the order of Trump. So please stop making it sound like the "military" was involved in the coup or acted on illegal orders.

You can hyperbole all you like, but the fact is and remains, there isnt a single solitary general that will follow an unlawful order from Trump.

And if those military members can be identified and are active duty, they will pay the price of court marshal. We dont even know the facts other than "some flashed badges and id" - what is some? 2? 4? 40?

 

[superchuck500]

Dude.

 

[DaveXA]

This can’t be right. I was told there’s no way the military would follow an illegal order.

And before someone says that a few members of the military does not constitute “the military,” I will again remind you that it’s time to stop being naive. This is evidence of members of the military willing to follow the illegal orders of a president to storm the Capitol.

You don’t have to have all of the military brass on board, or even a majority of the military. If you have enough guys with access to planes, tanks, and ships who are willing to go along for the ride, then congrats, you’ve got a military coup.

I'd still be interested in who these people were. Current, active or former military? Were the credentials real or fake? Were the off duty officers identified and their names made public?

And we don't know what these guys had access to. You can be military and not have access to those planes, tanks and ships. There weren't any.

Regardless, all who got into the Capitol should be charged and imprisoned.

There's a chain of command in the military. If brass wasn't given an order, or given an illegal order and not followed, then any actions by personnel that was contrary to our military standing orders would not be considered military action. Like I stated, those active military who illegally used their credentials to access restricted areas in the Capitol should be dishonorably discharged after being charged under the UCMJ, which I imagine has some stiff penalties.

The military didn't follow an illegal order as far as I can tell. One, or even a few people aren't the military. They were acting outside the chain of command.

I'm not going to justify what Trump did because what he did was reprehensible and he should be kicked out of office, but, he didn't order anyone to storm the Capitol. He's responsible for inciting a riot and probably for fomenting sedition, but he never told people to break into the Capitol and cause mayhem. He should have known his words could potentially lead up to this mess though.

 

[efil4]

Dude.

let the pivot begin.

He trying to get out in front of Hawley.

I cannot wait for him to run either for re-election or seek the R nomination for 2024. His words from 2018-2020 are going to bury him.

 

[DaveXA]

Dude.

I've been disgusted with Cruz for years. Ugh, we gotta tolerate his punchable face for another 6 years? Good grief.

 

[The moose]

What did you do to earn your Medal of Freedom from the POTUS?
MOF Winner #1 - "I helped usher in equal rights for an entire race of people"
MOF Winner #2 - "I devoted 47 years of my adult life to public service"
MOF Winner #3 - "I played golf"

Yeah we have gone a long way from what that should mean .


If you are a qb of the cowboys or a closer for NY is not really worthy and certainly Devin Nunez is not .

 

[samiam5211]

I can't speak about tanks or ships..but I can speak about planes....Even if you are talking about a single seat fighter, to get one armed single seat fighter off the ground would take dozens of individuals (all at the same base) willing to follow an illegal order (and willing to discuss it with others). It's not like the pilot can simply say, I'm gonna go shoot some people to help my guy win the election.

What i worry about is an entire National Guard unit going rogue. Depending on what type of unit it is, they could have enough equipment to cause problems somewhere for a brief period of time.

It isn't unimaginable that there is a guard unit here or there that is made up of almost entirely proud boy types.

 

[Saintamaniac]

let the pivot begin.

He trying to get out in front of Hawley.

I cannot wait for him to run either for re-election or seek the R nomination for 2024. His words from 2018-2020 are going to bury him.

Don't be too sure about that. Lindsey Graham's words didn't bury him.

 

[DaveXA]

What i worry about is an entire National Guard unit going rogue. Depending on what type of unit it is, they could have enough equipment to cause problems somewhere for a brief period of time.

It isn't unimaginable that there is a guard unit here or there that is made up of almost entirely proud boy types.

Yeah, that's possible. But they wouldn't get very far if they went rogue. At least I hope not.

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]

Oh, hey, that change in "tone" definitely lasted.

 

[efil4]

What i worry about is an entire National Guard unit going rogue. Depending on what type of unit it is, they could have enough equipment to cause problems somewhere for a brief period of time.

It isn't unimaginable that there is a guard unit here or there that is made up of almost entirely proud boy types.

So i guess you are unfamiliar with just how the military works.

So a natl guard unit has an "armory" - where Guard members are issued weapons in time of deployment or live fire training. They dont walk around the complex with their M15 or M203s waiting to mobilize.

So you would need quite a few folks on board to pull something off in a time of peace. That isnt to say if a unit is deployed say for inauguration day security and a handful of members decide for themselves to take matters into their own hands.

But then thats NOT following an illegal order, thats going rogue. While not out of the realm of possibility, i give it a 99.999999% chance of never happening on a scale that worries you.

 

[efil4]

Oh, hey, that change in "tone" definitely lasted.

Gotta get them benjamins. Link to donate to follow shortly.

 

[efil4]

Don't be too sure about that. Lindsey Graham's words didn't bury him.

True. We are, after all, talking about Texas.

But im more thinking run for POTUS

 

[brandon]

But then thats NOT following an illegal order, thats going rogue.

You're missing the point by drawing this distinction.

If the president has enough troops willing to do his bidding, the bidding can be done.

If there's someone on the inside of the armory willing to let in the rogues, it can be done.

Again, you don't have to have everyone, or even the brass. Rank and file will do just fine.

You're acting like coups have not happened all over the world historically, or that because it hasn't happened here that it can't happen here. How many things have you seen in the last four years that have happened that have never happened before?

If I told you two weeks ago that rioters would be inside the Capitol building and we would have to evacuate House and Senate members with gas masks, that someone would be shot dead on the floor of the Senate, and that Capitol police would largely stand by while it happened, you would have told me that was impossible.

Stop thinking that just because it hasn't happened that it can't happen.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Oh, hey, that change in "tone" definitely lasted.

At least he hasn't lied in that tweet. I think that may be his first tweet since Nov 3rd that was not flagged.

 

[brandon]

At least he hasn't lied in that tweet. I think that may be his first tweet since Nov 3rd that was not flagged.

This tweet is false or misleading. Trump supporters will absolutely be disrespected long into the future.

 

[MT15]

What you are talking about though, Brandon, isn’t going to scale up. Sure you could have a few soldiers go “rogue” but it isn’t going to be whole battalions. The arrests and future prosecutions of everyone who participated on Wednesday will also give pause to future folks who want to go down that path.

I wish you weren’t so worried about this.

 

[MT15]

How bad is it that I had a stray thought

And that thought was this

“I hope nobody asks Drew Brees what he thinks about all this”

Im not worried at all. He has publicly criticized Trump in the past, I see no way he has suddenly embraced him.