Trump loyalists in Congress to challenge Electoral College results in Jan. 6 joint session (Update: Insurrectionists storm Congress)(And now what?) (2 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

I guess it's time to start a thread for this. We know that at least 140 members of Congress have pledged to join the objection. Under federal law, if at least one member of each house (HOR and Senate) objects, each house will adjourn the joint session for their own session (limited at two hours) to take up the objection. If both houses pass a resolution objecting to the EC result, further action can take place. If both houses do not (i.e. if one or neither passes a resolution), the objection is powerless and the college result is certified.

Clearly this is political theater as we know such a resolution will not pass the House, and there's good reason to think it wouldn't pass the Senate either (with or without the two senators from Georgia). The January 6 joint session is traditionally a ceremonial one. This one will not be.

Many traditional pillars of Republican support have condemned the plan as futile and damaging. Certainly the Trump loyalists don't care - and many are likely doing it for fundraising purposes or to carry weight with the fraction of their constituencies that think this is a good idea.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32717.pdf

 

[Incumbent]

Today HAS to be the day this poopshow comes to an end...He either needs to be 25th'd out, "impeached-in-a-day" or both...(as I call it, the political equivalent to being shot then hung) either way. he should not be allowed to finish today as president. TBH, how he was able to wake up this morning as president is befuddling to say the least.

Assuming nothing procedural happens, I suspect we'll hear, now or eventually, that doing nothing was in the best interests of the country. That will, in my opinion, amount to postponing the inevitable, as I believe we have no choice but to confront the root causes that are driving Trump and his support. In the wake of the Capitol being stormed, I think the time to have this national reckoning is right now. I also think it is, and has been, abundantly clear that Trump is unfit to hold office.

 

[Roofgardener]

Also from the UK, and we've had no shortage of coverage of Trump's megalomania.

As for challenging ideas, yes, if one is genuinely unfamiliar with why a particular orthodoxy may be held, it is indeed reasonable to ask. However, doing so by using terms like 'vacuous hyperbole' and suggesting it's only 'pretty obvious' because people want 'an excuse - ANY excuse - to criticise Donald Trump' does not suggest genuine unfamiliarity, which wouldn't enable any position on the subject to be reasonably held, but opposition.


I don't think so. List of supported BB code on the site is here: https://madaboutpolitics.com/help/bb-codes/

Thanks for the tip about the BB code. Your suspicion is correct - that particular feature is not supported.

In regards orthodoxy; one thing that intrigues me is the portrayal of Trump. Certainly people with left-wing leangings tend to automatically associate him with Fascism, Racism and White Supremacy. However, the reasons they do so are usually in error. (I'm not saying that he isn't any of those things. I doubt it, but I don't really know. However, the stated reasons for the accusations are often false, even though frequently repeated in the media. ).

This has made me deeply suspicious about ANY media pronouncements about him, ESPECIALLY when people say things like 'it's well know' or 'its obvious' or 'everyone knows that.. ' Or, as the New York Times might put it.. "people close to people in the administration who overhead people saying that Trump said.. ", when they have been demonstrated to have made it up.

When we come to look back at the Trump presidency, many people will moan that he damaged America. Well, I don't think he has. But what HAS been badly damaged - in my opinion - is public trust in what is called the "Mainstream" Media. Organisations like CNN, the New York Times and the Washington post (to a lesser extent) abandoned their role as Newspapers, and virtually became propaganda outlets for the Democratic Party.

Perhaps it has always been this way, and I've only recently noticed ?

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

I don’t see any evidence that anyone is going to do anything yet. Sigh.

Oh, and a newly elected WV delegate was in the group who stormed the US Capitol. He’s probably antifa, right?

W.Va. delegate, just sworn in, was among the mob storming U.S. Capitol - WV MetroNews

Delegate Derrick Evans, R-Wayne, livestreamed and then deleted videos from inside the Capitol, but others took screenshots and videos of the original videos.

wvmetronews.com

What an idiot...recording yourself and stating your name while committing a federal felony. Hope he's one of the 1st to get a 20 year reservation @ FPMITA penitentiary.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Assuming nothing procedural happens, I suspect we'll hear, now or eventually, that doing nothing was in the best interests of the country. That will, in my opinion, amount to postponing the inevitable, as I believe we have no choice but to confront the root causes that are driving Trump and his support. In the wake of the Capitol being stormed, I think the time to have this national reckoning is right now.

I think the "best interests of the country" inaction excuse went out the window in a flaming bag of poop yesterday...In order for the GOP to begin normalization, they have to fall on their sword, take a hit from their base to get us back from the brink...but it has to be damn near all of em save for the 6 dumb expletives in the Senate who pressed on w/ their opposition. The house is a lost cause, but the key to getting crap back to normal is for the "adults" to be adults.

 

[RobF]

Assuming nothing procedural happens, I suspect we'll hear, now or eventually, that doing nothing was in the best interests of the country. That will, in my opinion, amount to postponing the inevitable, as I believe we have no choice but to confront the root causes that are driving Trump and his support. In the wake of the Capitol being stormed, I think the time to have this national reckoning is right now.

I agree, but I'm not sure it'll happen. There's been a continuing struggle between avoiding confrontation, ostensibly in order to avoid aggravating the situation, and taking the appropriate action.

The problem with not taking the appropriate action is that it in itself further aggravates the situation by normalising the behaviour and suggesting that it's actually appropriate (that is, it feeds the, "It must be justifiable behaviour, otherwise they wouldn't allow it" line of thinking).

And that's been deliberately encouraged for some time, through, for example, the opposition of 'cancel culture' being stretched to establish a 'lack of consequence culture'. A very selective culture though. Consequences for some, not for others.

But it's vital, at this point especially, that there are consequences for everyone.

 

[DaveXA]

Today HAS to be the day this poopshow comes to an end...He either needs to be 25th'd out, "impeached-in-a-day" or both...(as I call it, the political equivalent to being shot then hung) either way. he should not be allowed to finish today as president. TBH, how he was able to wake up this morning as president is befuddling to say the least.

Much as I'd like to see it happen, I'm not sure the required 2/3rds of the Congress will do it. Not to mention the Senate is in recess until Friday at the earliest. I suppose an emergency session could be called, but, I don't think that will happen.

The cabinet isn't going to 25th him as all that's left are mostly die hard loyalists. Since it's less than 2 weeks away, and the transition is already starting, I'd be surprised if Congress actually does something at this late stage.

 

[Incumbent]

I agree, but I'm not sure it'll happen. There's been a continuing struggle between avoiding confrontation, ostensibly in order to avoid aggravating the situation, and taking the appropriate action.

The problem with not taking the appropriate action is that it in itself further aggravates the situation by normalising the behaviour and suggesting that it's actually appropriate (that is, it feeds the, "It must be justifiable behaviour, otherwise they wouldn't allow it" line of thinking).

And that's been deliberately encouraged for some time, through, for example, the opposition of 'cancel culture' being stretched to establish a 'lack of consequence culture'. A very selective culture though. Consequences for some, not for others.

But it's vital, at this point especially, that there are consequences for everyone.

Yes, agreed. Particularly on the ramifications of not taking action.

Nothing that happened yesterday was accidental or unpredictable. As it was described in one viral tweet: "Well that escalated steadily for four years."

 

[wardorican]

I would settle for that movie Dave, with Alec Baldwin taking his place for the last two weeks.

I dunno, Baldwin is a jerk too.

 

[wardorican]

Thanks for the tip about the BB code. Your suspicion is correct - that particular feature is not supported.

In regards orthodoxy; one thing that intrigues me is the portrayal of Trump. Certainly people with left-wing leangings tend to automatically associate him with Fascism, Racism and White Supremacy. However, the reasons they do so are usually in error. (I'm not saying that he isn't any of those things. I doubt it, but I don't really know. However, the stated reasons for the accusations are often false, even though frequently repeated in the media. ).

This has made me deeply suspicious about ANY media pronouncements about him, ESPECIALLY when people say things like 'it's well know' or 'its obvious' or 'everyone knows that.. ' Or, as the New York Times might put it.. "people close to people in the administration who overhead people saying that Trump said.. ", when they have been demonstrated to have made it up.

When we come to look back at the Trump presidency, many people will moan that he damaged America. Well, I don't think he has. But what HAS been badly damaged - in my opinion - is public trust in what is called the "Mainstream" Media. Organisations like CNN, the New York Times and the Washington post (to a lesser extent) abandoned their role as Newspapers, and virtually became propaganda outlets for the Democratic Party.

Perhaps it has always been this way, and I've only recently noticed ?

Challenging assertions is fine, and often what I do too. It annoys everyone..haha.

And I'm glad you took that data and accepted it.

As stated, today (and yesterday especially) just isn't a good day for that kind of discussion. People are upset. But often, it is during these times that we need to guard against going too far down a rabbit hole.

Regarding quotes from anon sources... I'll just say this. They are quotes from real people. However, I do think many are what that person "thinks" about the situation. Political news is too often intertwined with what we think about it or how we interpret the words/actions. Just like how we all think our bosses are stupid, or mean, or incompetent. Sometimes it's true. Other times, we're just cranky.

 

[Incumbent]

Much as I'd like to see it happen, I'm not sure the required 2/3rds of the Congress will do it. Not to mention the Senate is in recess until Friday at the earliest. I suppose an emergency session could be called, but, I don't think that will happen.

The cabinet isn't going to 25th him as all that's left are mostly die hard loyalists. Since it's less than 2 weeks away, and the transition is already starting, I'd be surprised if Congress actually does something at this late stage.

I think we're at a point where it's at least important to once again get members of congress on the record. They bear a substantial responsibility for anything Trump does or incites over the next two weeks.

 

[bdb13]

I dunno, Baldwin is a jerk too.

I was going to say, go with Daryl Hammond and you got a deal.

 

[wardorican]

DC updates: 4 dead, 52 arrested, 14 police officers injured after pro-Trump rioters breach US Capitol; FBI opens investigation

Live coverage of the Washington, D.C., rallies where Trump supporters are gathering to protest as Congress counts Electoral College votes.

www.yahoo.com

DC updates: 4 dead, 52 arrested, 14 police officers injured after pro-Trump rioters breach US Capitol; FBI opens investigation

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

I think we're at a point where it's at least important to once again get members of congress on the record. They bear a substantial responsibility for anything Trump does or incites over the next two weeks.

Normally, I'd say getting them on record would be the correct action, but we're in a point where getting them on record means absolutely nothing to the people who put them in office. Their acts of sedition this week are a badge of honor for their constituents. The price they need to pay for this is personal (i.e. charged w/ inciting a riot, accessory to murder, etc) because there isn't going to be a political penalty for any of them to face.

 

[SFIDC3]

People wishing for the death of other people is just not acceptable, especially here. Some pretty dark comments in this thread. I totally get the frustration, but let's not let this get the best of us. We should be better than the idiots we're pointing fingers at.

In the past I would agree with this but I have to say I feel differently now. I think a number of the folks out there will very likely commit other acts of violence in the future. The Q types, white supremacists, nazi groups, et al, so yeah, I would not have felt badly had they been shot....

 

[Incumbent]

Normally, I'd say getting them on record would be the correct action, but we're in a point where getting them on record means absolutely nothing to the people who put them in office. Their acts of sedition this week are a badge of honor for their constituents. The price they need to pay for this is personal (i.e. charged w/ inciting a riot, accessory to murder, etc) because there isn't going to be a political penalty for any of them to face.

I'm not suggesting it because I think it's the "correct action" but because, at a minimum, I think it's necessary.

 

[DaveXA]

I think we're at a point where it's at least important to once again get members of congress on the record. They bear a substantial responsibility for anything Trump does or incites over the next two weeks.

Works for me. That said, the seditionists are already on record. At least 12 of them (Senators) had stated they would go on record objecting to the electoral votes of several states. That changed last night when some withdrew their objections. I'd say at minimum Cruz and Hawley need to be censured in the Senate for their actions and the 100+ in the House. The WV Rep who participated in that mob yesterday needs to be removed from office immediately. That was shameful.

 

[bdb13]

 

[Taurus]

Normally, I'd say getting them on record would be the correct action, but we're in a point where getting them on record means absolutely nothing to the people who put them in office. Their acts of sedition this week are a badge of honor for their constituents. The price they need to pay for this is personal (i.e. charged w/ inciting a riot, accessory to murder, etc) because there isn't going to be a political penalty for any of them to face.

The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again.

This is what we get when gerrymandering is allowed to run completely out of control. When politicians can pick the voters, you get this synergy where nothing they do will ever have any consequences.