Trump loyalists in Congress to challenge Electoral College results in Jan. 6 joint session (Update: Insurrectionists storm Congress)(And now what?) (2 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

I guess it's time to start a thread for this. We know that at least 140 members of Congress have pledged to join the objection. Under federal law, if at least one member of each house (HOR and Senate) objects, each house will adjourn the joint session for their own session (limited at two hours) to take up the objection. If both houses pass a resolution objecting to the EC result, further action can take place. If both houses do not (i.e. if one or neither passes a resolution), the objection is powerless and the college result is certified.

Clearly this is political theater as we know such a resolution will not pass the House, and there's good reason to think it wouldn't pass the Senate either (with or without the two senators from Georgia). The January 6 joint session is traditionally a ceremonial one. This one will not be.

Many traditional pillars of Republican support have condemned the plan as futile and damaging. Certainly the Trump loyalists don't care - and many are likely doing it for fundraising purposes or to carry weight with the fraction of their constituencies that think this is a good idea.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32717.pdf

 

[TaylorB]

Right now the MyPillowGuy is threatening civil war.

I wish I could witness my 2021-self explain to my 2016-self why I was able to read that sentence without needing further context.

 

[superchuck500]

I wish I could witness my 2021-self explain to my 2016-self why I was able to read that sentence without needing further context.

Also in 2021, the president gave the nation's highest civilian honor to a guy who sued a fictitious cow for defamation. We're five days in.

 

[kewee]

Jesus Christ, I hate these people so much. I'm sorry if we shouldn't say that on here, but it is the truth, and how I feel.

 

[superchuck500]

Meanwhile at the Pennsylvania state house, the presiding Lt. Gov. refused to recognize a motion from GOP senator (majority) that would have prevented a Democrat senator from being sworn in. After Fetterman refused, the GOP majority "removed" him (not physically) and are trying to lead their own certification process. This is for the newly elected state reps and senators.






Background:

GOP leaders in Pa. Senate will refuse to seat Democrat certified by state as winner

The top Republican in the Senate said a decision in a legal challenge brought by Jim Brewster’s GOP challenger is necessary before the chamber can swear in a winner.

www.inquirer.com

 

[TaylorB]

Also in 2021, the president gave the nation's highest civilian honor to a guy who sued a fictitious cow for defamation. We're five days in.

Yeah, well. As delightful as they look on the infomercials, a 2X D victory in today's GA special would help me sleep the rest of 2021 way better than a MyPillow ever could.

 

[efil4]

Meanwhile at the Pennsylvania state house, the presiding Lt. Gov. refused to recognize a motion from GOP senator (majority) that would have prevented a Democrat senator from being sworn in. After Fetterman refused, the GOP majority "removed" him (not physically) and are trying to lead their own certification process. This is for the newly elected state reps and senators.






Background:

GOP leaders in Pa. Senate will refuse to seat Democrat certified by state as winner

The top Republican in the Senate said a decision in a legal challenge brought by Jim Brewster’s GOP challenger is necessary before the chamber can swear in a winner.

www.inquirer.com

 

[kewee]

I dont think I'm gonna read anything else today.

 

[FullMonte]

Way down the thread about the mess in Pennsylvania was an interesting idea (not that I think it happens)....but, in short:

1) Pence does not want to usurp the Constitution.
2) Pence feels some loyalty Donald Trump.
3) Pence does not want to be put in position to have to issue a pardon to Donald Trump
4) Pence resigns just before the opening of the session tomorrow.

 

[wardorican]

Way down the thread about the mess in Pennsylvania was an interesting idea (not that I think it happens)....but, in short:

1) Pence does not want to usurp the Constitution.
2) Pence feels some loyalty Donald Trump.
3) Pence does not want to be put in position to have to issue a pardon to Donald Trump
4) Pence resigns just before the opening of the session tomorrow.

None of these guys are resigning. They want their hand on the wheel. And the resignation just taints them worse.

 

[superchuck500]

Way down the thread about the mess in Pennsylvania was an interesting idea (not that I think it happens)....but, in short:

1) Pence does not want to usurp the Constitution.
2) Pence feels some loyalty Donald Trump.
3) Pence does not want to be put in position to have to issue a pardon to Donald Trump
4) Pence resigns just before the opening of the session tomorrow.

It would be a remarkable moment of self-awareness for Pence, but I just don't see it. His wagon is hitched to Trump either way.

Pence doesn't really have an option to usurp the Constitution. I mean he could try and be that guy in history but the Court would take care of that mess and it wouldn't be favorable for him.

I think Pence would be happy to be president, even for just long enough to pardon his hero Donald Trump.

 

[porculator]

I do think there are always those “sore losers” who try to discredit an opponent’s victory, it’s just that this is the furthest they’ve ever taken this effort

It's so odd that this is the hill they want to die on. Like, can't they just admit that Trump was a fun one night stand and next time trot out some regular bozo that doesn't say the bad things out loud. And save their outrage for when madame president elect Ocasio Cortez is "stealing" the election from whatever Brad or Jared or Kevin they trot out.

 

[FullMonte]

I do think there are always those “sore losers” who try to discredit an opponent’s victory, it’s just that this is the furthest they’ve ever taken this effort

I saw it posted somewhere (I don't remember if it was here or elsewhere) that you have to go back to 1976 to find the last time a democrat was elected president and the GOP didn't claim the election was tainted in some way.

 

[MT15]

It would be a remarkable moment of self-awareness for Pence, but I just don't see it. His wagon is hitched to Trump either way.

Pence doesn't really have an option to usurp the Constitution. I mean he could try and be that guy in history but the Court would take care of that mess and it wouldn't be favorable for him.

according to a lawyer I was reading on Twitter, Pence is just the letter opener. Others actually tally the votes and then he reads the total. If he refuses to read the total, then he would be replaced on the spot assuming a point of order is raised by someone present. His replacement would then take over his job.

Edit: found it

 

[superchuck500]

according to a lawyer I was reading on Twitter, Pence is just the letter opener. Others actually tally the votes and then he reads the total. If he refuses to read the total, then he would be replaced on the spot assuming a point of order is raised by someone present. His replacement would then take over his job.

Edit: found it

Yes, the whole narrative of Pence and "Senators to refuse to certify Biden electoral votes" is totally misplaced. There is no such authority - even reporting that they're going to join the effort or not join the effort seems to suggest that the effort is legally viable. It is not - at least not in this context. Those ministerial acts and ability to object could come in to play in other circumstances but we don't have that here. We have certified state results and authentic electoral college votes. The role of the joint session is to open and count them. It is effectively ceremonial.

And a few clowns are going to prove to the world and to history what clowns they really are.

 

[superchuck500]

If you really want a primer on what's going to happen tomorrow, read this starting at page 6.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32717.pdf

In particular:

Basis for Objections
The general grounds for an objection to the counting of an electoral vote or votes would appear from the federal statute and from historical sources to be that such vote was not “regularly given” by an elector, and/or that the elector was not “lawfully certified” according to state statutory procedures. The statutory provision first provides in the negative that “no electoral vote ... regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified ... from which but one return has been received shall be rejected” (3 U.S.C. §15). The provision then reiterates for clarity that both houses concurrently may reject a vote when not “so regularly given” by electors “so certified” (3 U.S.C. §15). It should be noted that the word lawfully was expressly inserted by the House in the Senate legislation (S. 9, 49th Congress) before the word certified. Such addition arguably provides an indication that Congress thought it might, as grounds for an objection, question and look into the lawfulness of the certification under state law.

The objection that votes were not “regularly given” may, in practice, subsume the objection that the elector was not “lawfully certified,” because a vote given by one not “lawfully certified” may arguably be other than “regularly given.” Nevertheless, the two objections are not necessarily the same. In the case of the “faithless elector” in 1969, described above, the elector was apparently “lawfully certified” by the state, but the objection raised was that the vote was not “regularly given” by such elector. In the above-described 2005 case, the objection was also based on the grounds that the electoral votes “were not, under all of the known circumstances, regularly given.”

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

 

[brandon]

This seems to disagree.

 

[MT15]

Watching the election coverage on MSNBC and they just put up a report that Pence has informed Trump tonight that he cannot change any of the states‘ electors. We shall see, but way to wait until the last second to come clean.