Trump is done (1 Viewer)

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Trump is done, stick a fork in him. He will not be re-elected. Don’t ask me what the last straw was for him, I cannot say. It might have been the transcript of the call where he asked Ukraine to investigate the Bidens while withholding military aid. Maybe it was when he doubled down and asked China to investigate a political rival (a fact some of his supporters in Congress incredibly deny he said because it’s otherwise indefensible). It might have been when he withdrew our military from Syria against the advice of his military advisers and his closest supporters. Maybe it was when the news division at Fox stood up on their hind legs and started calling him out. Or perhaps its his increasingly unhinged twitter rants that are making some question his sanity. The latest scandal with his whacked out attorney Giuliani cavorting with criminals cannot help.

Whatever the last straw was, it is my admittedly amateur political opinion that Trump is no longer electable. Remember this was a president who lost the popular vote. The democrats do not need his supporters to desert him in droves, they just need 10 percent or do. Recent polls show more Republicans than that think he should be impeached. And I don’t think things get better for Trump. It has the feel that it is imploding around him with more and more people he appointed and then fired willing to question his judgment, if not his sanity. It’s just hard for me at this point to see him holding on to enough of his supporters to win. I have friends who voted for him who if presented with an unacceptable democrat choice will simply not vote rather than vote for Trump.

As for the many I know who voted for Trump I will say this. I understand Clinton was an unacceptable choice to you. I get it if you wanted deregulation or if getting conservatives on the Supreme Court made voting for Trump worth it to you. What is beyond me is how any reasonable person can say Trump is a good man. He is not. He is a narcissist. He is rude and uncivil. He is a serial liar, lying about the stupidest of things. Did you believe him when he claimed his inaugural crowd was the biggest ever? How about when he drew a circle on a weather map to double down on a ridiculous lie that Alabama was in the path of a hurricane? Do his supporters remember when he got on tv and denied paying Stormy Daniels? Can anyone with any intellectual honesty believe he did not withhold military aid to coerce Ukraine to investigate a political rival?

In my lifetime I have seen nothing like it. I have crossed party lines to vote for many presidents. I was not a fan of the second George Bush nor Richard Nixon. But I never questioned their sanity, I never questioned their patriotism. I was proud of George Bush when he went to the trade center after 9-11.

Trump is only about Trump. He has no religion, which matters not to me other than the fact the religious right seems him as having some mandate from God. I don’t know that he even cares that much about his kids, what he said about his other daughter was hateful and cruel.

I’m calling it now. He might make a decent showing, he has his base for sure. But he will not be re-elected. He has lost enough of his base where he will not win. He won by such a narrow margin, he can’t afford to lose any votes and it’s almost impossible to believe the combination of his recent shenanigans will not cost him some votes.
 

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Well now this truly chilling.

I have seen a lot of criticism of Trump in the past, but I don't ever think I have seen someone predict that there is no way he will win a presidential election.
 
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Well now this truly chilling.

I have seen a lot of criticism of Trump in the past, but I don't ever think I have seen someone predict that there is no way he will win a presidential election.

I wanted to be the first to call it. :) As I wrote, it’s an amateur opinion from an old dog who has seen many presidents, none like this one. Of all the presidents we have ever had, I can’t think of one I personally disliked so much. I thought Nixon was a bit of a crook, but no worse than LBJ and probably more effective. The most incompetent in my lifetime was probably Jimmy Carter. But none of them provoked the type of felling I have with Trump, that he has been the most divisive and uncivil president in our history.

So I figure if my feelings are that strong, and I am hardly a dyed in the wool Democrat, that Trump must be losing others who reside near the middle.

And I think it gets worse for him. The people he has fired, some of them good and competent people, and who have been quiet will start to speak out, that’s happening now. Maybe the tipping point for me was when he turned on the Fox News division. Shepard Smith leaving Fox is going to galvanize those in the news division who have been called out by Trump for telling it like it is.

You have to admit Trump getting crosswise with Fox tells you there are those even with Fox who are having grave concerns about his presidency.
 

Beach Friends

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Hey look, I don't think I am a great political prognosticator, so we are obviously just sharing opinions.

But, honstly Trump was almost universally declared to be DOA in his 2016 bid and we have been hearing "we got him now" since before he was even sworn in.

As far as him losing votes from people who voted for him in 2016, I don't see that happening. As I am sure you can recall, a lot of negative stories about him came out just before the election, including the story about his statements on the bus. I don't see people who were not deterred by all of that switching now.

And then you have people like me, who didn't support him before but would definitely do so if the election was held tomorrow.

And it is not so much that I am voting for him as I am against the Democrats. This woke/cancel culture is out of control IMO and the Democratic candidates are pushing each other way too far to the left for my tastes.

I also think Trump is going to get more of the minority vote than he did before. Blexit may not be huge, but it is real.

A couple of weeks ago I tossed back a few beers with a 27 year old who was wearing a MAGA hat. The young man was more familiar with conservative commentators than I am.

You know what he said opened his eyes? A coworker showed him the quotes of Trump's actual remarks after Charlottesville. He said he felt duped and he started listening to Candace Owens.
Now granted he was formed military and formed military may tend to lean right, but that's not actually what convinced him.

I think people tend to think that everyone who intends to vote for Trump are blindly in love with him. That's not what I am hearing from people.

Most of the "Trump supporters" that I talk with are well aware of his flaws, they often cringe at what he says, and they would not want their kids to look up to him as a role model.

For those people, hearing something else negative about Trump is not going to make a difference. They are not motivated by some insane love for Trump. They are motivated by a belief that the far left is totalitarian, socialist and out of control.

Obviously the experience of others will vary, but I think what I have described should not be overlooked when evaluating the current political landscape.
 

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One last thing - a lot of conservatives have been very unhappy with Fox, and especially Shep for a while now. I have heard a lot of people say that Fox is unwatchable from 12-6pm.
The hiring of Donna Brazil did not sit well with a lot of people, and Shep was downright despised.

Tucker's show is about the only show that is nearly universally adored by conservatives. Hannity has a lot of viewers, but a lot of people can't stand how he constantly interrupts his guests and repeats himself.
 

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You know what he said opened his eyes? A coworker showed him the quotes of Trump's actual remarks after Charlottesville. He said he felt duped and he started listening to Candace Owens.
Well, let me tell you, he got duped again. Owens saw an opportunity to make some money and took it!
 
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Hey look, I don't think I am a great political prognosticator, so we are obviously just sharing opinions.

But, honstly Trump was almost universally declared to be DOA in his 2016 bid and we have been hearing "we got him now" since before he was even sworn in.

As far as him losing votes from people who voted for him in 2016, I don't see that happening. As I am sure you can recall, a lot of negative stories about him came out just before the election, including the story about his statements on the bus. I don't see people who were not deterred by all of that switching now.

And then you have people like me, who didn't support him before but would definitely do so if the election was held tomorrow.

And it is not so much that I am voting for him as I am against the Democrats. This woke/cancel culture is out of control IMO and the Democratic candidates are pushing each other way too far to the left for my tastes.

I also think Trump is going to get more of the minority vote than he did before. Blexit may not be huge, but it is real.

A couple of weeks ago I tossed back a few beers with a 27 year old who was wearing a MAGA hat. The young man was more familiar with conservative commentators than I am.

You know what he said opened his eyes? A coworker showed him the quotes of Trump's actual remarks after Charlottesville. He said he felt duped and he started listening to Candace Owens.
Now granted he was formed military and formed military may tend to lean right, but that's not actually what convinced him.

I think people tend to think that everyone who intends to vote for Trump are blindly in love with him. That's not what I am hearing from people.

Most of the "Trump supporters" that I talk with are well aware of his flaws, they often cringe at what he says, and they would not want their kids to look up to him as a role model.

For those people, hearing something else negative about Trump is not going to make a difference. They are not motivated by some insane love for Trump. They are motivated by a belief that the far left is totalitarian, socialist and out of control.

Obviously the experience of others will vary, but I think what I have described should not be overlooked when evaluating the current political landscape.

There is a lot in here I can agree with, I think you give a good description of some of his supporters and how they feel about him. I know some who honestly think he is a great man, and many others who think he is a bad guy, but better than the alternative.

My opinion is based on my intuition that Trump has taken so many hits from so many directions lately that he is losing some significant part of his base. By significant, even losing ten percent would make it impossible for him to win.

I know a lot of people who voted for Trump who have told me they won’t again. I don’t know anyone who didn’t vote for Trump who will vote for him now.

Add to all that, I don’t think the impeachment proceedings go well for him. The Senate will not vote to impeach him, but more will come out that hurts him.

Keeping it real and putting the rhetoric aside, you do believe he held up military aid to squeeze Ukraine to investigate Biden, don’t you? And if you can get to the point of conceding that, how is that remotely acceptable?

It’s so crazy. Once he got caught, Trump released the transcript, asked China to investigate Biden and gaslighted the whole country into getting people to think what he did was okay. Incredibly, it’s working to some extent for him. But I think he has enough supporters who are intellectually honest enough to see Trump blackmailed Ukraine for political purposes to investigate a rival. Anyone not connecting those dots just doesn’t want to. Anyone rationalizing that is okay has been gaslighted.
 

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There is a lot in here I can agree with, I think you give a good description of some of his supporters and how they feel about him. I know some who honestly think he is a great man, and many others who think he is a bad guy, but better than the alternative.

My opinion is based on my intuition that Trump has taken so many hits from so many directions lately that he is losing some significant part of his base. By significant, even losing ten percent would make it impossible for him to win.

I know a lot of people who voted for Trump who have told me they won’t again. I don’t know anyone who didn’t vote for Trump who will vote for him now.

Add to all that, I don’t think the impeachment proceedings go well for him. The Senate will not vote to impeach him, but more will come out that hurts him.

Keeping it real and putting the rhetoric aside, you do believe he held up military aid to squeeze Ukraine to investigate Biden, don’t you? And if you can get to the point of conceding that, how is that remotely acceptable?

It’s so crazy. Once he got caught, Trump released the transcript, asked China to investigate Biden and gaslighted the whole country into getting people to think what he did was okay. Incredibly, it’s working to some extent for him. But I think he has enough supporters who are intellectually honest enough to see Trump blackmailed Ukraine for political purposes to investigate a rival. Anyone not connecting those dots just doesn’t want to. Anyone rationalizing that is okay has been gaslighted.
I honestly don't know whether he did. I really want to read the transcript of the testimony that was taken the other day.

I don't really see him asking for an investigation to be the same thing as asking for them to "dig up dirt" though. I think all of it should be thoroughly investigated.

And HRC, the Clinton Foundation - all of that needs to be thoroughly investigated. I know people like to pretend the e-mail scandal was nothing, but I think one would have to be burrying his head in the sand to think she went to that risk and trouble for no reason.

I want all of this investigated, including, and perhaps especially, our intel community. We can't have a situation where the alphabet organizations are abusing the authority we have entrusted them with. That needs to be rooted out.

I would love to see all of this handled in a mature, non partisan way but that's not going to happen.
 

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I think that the one thing that will eventually undo Trump is the way he has threatened, ridiculed and harassed members of his own administration.

So far most of his cult have stayed faithfull, but whistleblowers are starting to show up at an increasing rate, and once that levee breaks from those tiny holes, then the whole wall is going to come tumbling down around his ears as people will be scrambling to distance themselves from him
 

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Well, let me tell you, he got duped again. Owens saw an opportunity to make some money and took it!
the cynic in me would agree that she did it for personal gain, because that’s sort of my default for most people who engage in such public deception. I am comparably dubious of the intentions of Sharpton and Jackson

But the deception is undeniable. And she uses it to legitimate her blexit movement. Last year around this time there was a pretty clear example.


and in the thread, Kruse had to correct a number of things.

That thread includes an alleged quote by Sanger about Jews that she changes to colored people. So, a lie changed into another lie.

i think this sort of deception is intended to work against easing racial divisiveness rather than toward it.

whether or not she is doing it for personal profit, I don’t know. But the work she engages in is decidedly not a model for racial harmony going forward. In fact, I believe it works more to confirm the status quo and reify those instituions.

I’ve said before that I think it’s shameful how democrats take the Black vote for granted. And I would like to see more active and sincere engagement. More participation. More acknowledgment of legislation to even the playing field for the starting line rather than the finish line, which I think is lazier and more ineffectual and less long term.

but I don’t think the way Owens and her racism-compromised comrades go about it is the best way to do it. I don’t think it’s close to a better way. I think a better way is to begin with honesty and right out of the proverbial gate that horse collapses to its knees.
 

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I have seen a lot of criticism of Trump in the past, but I don't ever think I have seen someone predict that there is no way he will win a presidential election.
Chuck Todd (NBC political analyst) said it several times before the last election, including his now famous "there's not a snowflake's chance in hell Hillary doesn't win this election" comment.
 

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One last thing - a lot of conservatives have been very unhappy with Fox, and especially Shep for a while now. I have heard a lot of people say that Fox is unwatchable from 12-6pm.
The hiring of Donna Brazil did not sit well with a lot of people, and Shep was downright despised.

Tucker's show is about the only show that is nearly universally adored by conservatives. Hannity has a lot of viewers, but a lot of people can't stand how he constantly interrupts his guests and repeats himself.
The period where they sort of report actual news? Albeit from a right-leaning, though lesser pro-Trump perspective? That's, kind of scary, no?

Because think on that for a moment. The main problem a lot of conservatives supposedly have with their news channel is that their TV news isn't entirely like Hannity and Tucker.

This also cuts against the grain of the publicly stated reason so many conservatives seemingly claim to have an issue with mainstream outlets. Which is that they don't just report the news and are too biased. But when they get right-leaning news journalism, like the 12-6 period on Fox, best represented by Shep Smith for 20 years, in your words, a significant number seemingly recoil to that as well. Want it removed and replaced by what they really want, which is the harder right opinion stuff. Which is the only place you can find universal conservative appeal any more you seem to claim.

That's....frightening to me.
 
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I honestly don't know whether he did. I really want to read the transcript of the testimony that was taken the other day.

I don't really see him asking for an investigation to be the same thing as asking for them to "dig up dirt" though. I think all of it should be thoroughly investigated.

And HRC, the Clinton Foundation - all of that needs to be thoroughly investigated. I know people like to pretend the e-mail scandal was nothing, but I think one would have to be burrying his head in the sand to think she went to that risk and trouble for no reason.

I want all of this investigated, including, and perhaps especially, our intel community. We can't have a situation where the alphabet organizations are abusing the authority we have entrusted them with. That needs to be rooted out.

I would love to see all of this handled in a mature, non partisan way but that's not going to happen.

I am perfectly fine with Hillary being investigated. But every time Trump does something corrupt and illegal, the response just cannot be that Hillary should be investigated too.

And I don’t see how anyone being intellectually honest cannot see how Trump leveraged military aid to get Ukraine to investigate Biden. Perhaps even more scary is how after getting caught he basically gaslighted his supporters by admitting he asked Ukraine to investigate Biden and then for all to see, he beseeched Chins to investigate a political rival! You know that’s not okay, right?

Asking China to investigate China is so obviously bad, some of his supporters in Congress rather than admitting that’s wrong, denied he said what he said! More gaslighting. It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
 

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I am perfectly fine with Hillary being investigated. But every time Trump dies something corrupt and illegal, the response just cannot be that Hillary should be investigated too.

And I don’t see how anyone being intellectually honest cannot see how Trump leveraged military aid to get Ukraine to investigate Biden. Perhaps even more scary is how after getting caught he basically gaslighted his supporters by admitting he asked Ukraine to investigate Biden and then for all to see, he beseeched Chins to investigate a political rival! You know that’s not okay, right?

Asking China to investigate China is so obviously bad, some of his supporters in Congress rather than admitting that’s wrong, denied he said what he said! More gaslighting. It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
Good post overall, but I want to touch on this point in particular:

How many more investigations does she need? I mean if new revelations come to light, by all means, but...

I was fine with the initial Benghazi investigation, the FBI server investigation, a look at her foundation for sure, but all that has been done.

Benghazi: 13 congressional investigations.

Server controversy: two congressional investigations, State Department IG report and an FBI investigation(which the context should be added, both Powell, and Condoleezza Rice had private servers/used public emails, and Kushner/Ivanka and other Trump officials have used private servers or public email accounts for official business. Heck, the text messages about the Ukraine aid for dirt scandal released were not on official communication lines, they were on whatsapp, which encrypts and hides communications from the official sanctioned channels and was one of the walls the Mueller investigation hit).

The Clinton Foundation: four branches of the FBI investigated it, congressional investigations were had, and an IG report. Additionally, the controversy in question was the problematic nature of foreign interests donating money to the foundation in the fear it would create conflicts of interest(a justifiable concern)....Which sounds familiar.
 
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I agree! Even Fox News polls have him losing hard in a potential matchup with any of the Democratic frontrunners. Writing's on the wall.
Yeah, and I think this time around there are going to be voters publicly saying they're going to vote for Trump that have no intentions of voting for him.
 

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Well now this truly chilling.

I have seen a lot of criticism of Trump in the past, but I don't ever think I have seen someone predict that there is no way he will win a presidential election.
Yeah, I'm still not buying it. There are enough blind fans who play the 'ignore all facts.. It's us vs them'. game to put Trump in again. Just look at places like Florida, which has turned more red. It's the fact that there is no challenging Republican. It's the fact that now more than ever, politics has turned into a college football rivalry over deciding what is best for the country despite perceived position on a spectrum.

Folks like my parents are countless.. They know deep down that Trump isn't a good dude, but wouldnt be caught dead voting for a Democrat because theres some bs 'right and wrong' tie with their religion intertwined. They truly believe the shills on AFR who peddle 'the left is trying to get rid of jesus in our schools, commit abortion, introduce socialism' line. It works on them and so many others.

I think Trump unfortunately still has a good shot at reelection.
 
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