Trump Indictment ( includes NY AG and Fed documents case ) (1 Viewer)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Former President D. Trump has been indicted by a New York Grand Jury. There will be much to talk about on this topic because this is just the first step in a lengthy process.
Possibly it is worthy of its own thread here rather than posting about Trump's indictment in already existing threads?
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This 3/31/23 story might get the ball rolling....
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Manhattan’s DA wanted a Friday Trump arrest. Trump’s team said no.

Secret Service needed more time to prepare, according to the ex-president’s legal team.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Incumbent]

I won't say publicly whether I will pardon Trump if I become president either. Because saying you're going to Pardon him is presuming him guilty, which fair people do not do.

Doesn't really matter with me, because of course I'm not going to be president. On the other hand, at the same is true of Mike pence, so . . .

Asking Pence if he would pardon Trump is understood to be based on the presumption that he had been found guilty. It's a straightforward question.

 

[Snarky Sack]

The photo of the boxes dumped on the floor was taken long before the FBI came.

The one with the newspaper articles? If that picture was taken by a staffer, I would wonder why staffer did not simply pick up the box and put the newspapers and pictures back in? If he felt himself too senior, he could have asked the housekeeping staff.

The idea that Trump does those kind of chores at Mar-a-Lago is pretty funny.

The one with the documents spread out over the floor was staged by the FBI, and they never pretended that it was the way the documents were found.

I never heard of them say that they had staged it.

But at least you admit it was staged, which many will not. As far as we know, they could have been neatly in boxes before the FBI staged that.

 

[Snarky Sack]

You seem to forget that everyone involved with classified documents at home have fully cooperated with getting it resolved, except Trump, who willfully took classified documents, and who in public is fighting back insisting these documents are his, then claiming documents were planted, it seems he can’t make up his mind which is the better claim.

I agree about Pence that once he was caught, he became cooperative. There was some shady business with Biden, but the FBI gave him time for it, so I guess you could say he "cooperated."

The better comparison is Clinton, who negotiated, stalled, and sorted documents herself, rather than give the FBI full access. At the end, I guess you could say that she cooperated. The FBI, for whatever reasons, settled on allowing her to pick and choose what to return, and then to choose the method of destroying the remaining material.

And his little minions are down with it, whatever he said. Of course when we are talking about Trump and his minions the bar for responsibility, honesty, and adult like standards is sitting on the floor. It basically boils down to whatever mentally ill Master says is good enough for me…Koolaid cheers.

Do tell . . .

 

[Snarky Sack]

If the IRS sends me multiple requests to pay unpaid taxes, and i just simply ignore them, even when my lawyer tells me about the requests, Is that the same as refusing to pay my taxes, or is it, well, he didn't actually say he wouldn't pay them, so no harm done...lol

A better analogy would be the IRS claiming you owe more taxes than you not believe you owe, so you give them what you think you owe and you negotiate. That is not in any way "ignoring."

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I believe when I see that something hidden from me that the hidden thing is something that the hider does not want me to see.

When I see the hider deliberately showing me a picture of what the thing is hidden behind, I wonder why they would do that.

It's like that weird uncle that doesn't have kids of his own, but he's figured out that playing I've got a secret we'll get their attention.

You didn't answer a very straightforward question. Let me give you a sentence stem: "I think that the redactions in the photo are most likely hiding ___________."

 

[efil4]

A better analogy would be the IRS claiming you owe more taxes than you not believe you owe, so you give them what you think you owe and you negotiate. That is not in any way "ignoring."

actually thats a worse analogy.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

actually thats a worse analogy.

yea, a closer one would be I paid what I thought I should owe, not what the IRS said I owed. and instead of proving it, I just ignored their requests.

 

[samiam5211]

The one with the newspaper articles? If that picture was taken by a staffer, I would wonder why staffer did not simply pick up the box and put the newspapers and pictures back in? If he felt himself too senior, he could have asked the housekeeping staff.

The idea that Trump does those kind of chores at Mar-a-Lago is pretty funny.

I never heard of them say that they had staged it.

But at least you admit it was staged, which many will not. As far as we know, they could have been neatly in boxes before the FBI staged that.

You are either playing ignorant, or really are. Either way, you are a waste of time.

 

[DaveXA]

A better analogy would be the IRS claiming you owe more taxes than you not believe you owe, so you give them what you think you owe and you negotiate. That is not in any way "ignoring."

Lol. There's no "negotiating" with the IRS.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Most of the posters here aren’t really into rhetorical games,

FullMonte is.

and do try to state things in a genuine fashion. We genuinely try to say things we judge to be true when discussing verifiable facts.

I don't know if you are sincere is all of the following, but I'm going to give it a respectful answer as if you are. FullMonte's game is to ask me "are you saying . . . " and then sometimes say what I was actually saying, and sometimes say something with similar words that don't mean the same thing. He did that on this very thread, post 867, 869, and 871. That must have prompted him to finally realize I was giving it back to him and then he rage quit.

I realize you were fairly well badgered here the other day - I believe that happened because you were pretty stubborn about insisting you hadn’t made an error when you had and it was obvious.

I still don't know what obvious error FullMonte was talking about (and no, I don't care to rehash it). I'm guessing it was another of his "are you saying . . . " that looked similar to what I said, so I just said, "right . . . " and tried to get the conversation back on track.

But, lets say you are right. I have been on numerous boards and I've never been on one in which someone says "agree to disagree" and keeps getting hounded by multiple posters.

But it's fine. I like it here in spite of all that, or I wouldn't be here.. I'm just clarifying for you.

When you couple that with your insistence on having your own set of facts about both Trump and other political figures, and that we are still getting to know you, that happens. A gentle hazing if you will. You came in here pretty hot, IMO, with guns blazing, lol.

I came in here and offered opinions that were different from the consensus. I'll agree with being "pretty hot," though not sure how you would know. Not "guns blazing" even making allowances for over-dramatic metaphor.

I guess if you haven't seen a differing opinion in a while, it can seem jarring.

You see us as a monolith, I think. We are far from that. There is a tilt, in that we don’t have very many Trump supporters, but there are all sorts of nuanced views on a variety of issues.

That, I have not seen. If you can provide examples, I'd be pleased. Maybe from before I got here. I realize that the mere presence of a Trump supporter is galvanizing.

This seems to be a board made of very few people with nearly identical opinions. Much of the exchanges are like this:

The trollness is getting worse. You aren't even hiding it in conversation anymore....

I hope its just trolling cause otherwise...



A conman down to the smallest acts.

those good business practices that makes him sucessful..

By Allah! If I were on a board like that full of Trump supporters who baby talked each other like that, I wouldn't waste more than about an hour on it.

I’ve learned a lot, there is a crap ton of expertise on various topics on this board - if you’re willing to learn and discuss issues forthrightly this is the board for you.

Have you talked that out with your fellows? I'm not sure they will agree. No matter how forthrightly I discuss issues, I'll be doing it as a Trump supporter. They won't be able to tolerate that, is my guess.

I'll put it to the test. I'll be as forthright and non-snarky as I can for twenty-four hours, answering provocations with forthright discussion of issues.

I'll let you know the results.

I'll start at 4:15 PM CDT, about fifteen minutes. I have to expose a sock puppet first. I can do that without snark, but it is hard not to seem snarky doing that. It isn't you or any sock you may have, don't worry.

*EDIT* Changed my mind about exposing the sock. Exposing socks sends people into rages, and I'm sure there are plenty of people with socks who might think they are next. So, it would not be a fair test.

Sock puppetry is allowed on here, IRRC, which is probably why they are so prolific.

I'll start in a minute, approx.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Not sure if this has been discussed yet:

Judge orders Trump lawyers to seek security clearances

Defense attorneys commonly receive security clearances in criminal cases involving classified documents.

www.politico.com

I'm not surprise that this hasn't been done yet as it will, no doubt, slow down the process.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Lol. There's no "negotiating" with the IRS.

Respectfully, DaveXA, there is. The IRS itself describes on example its own website:

Offer in compromise | Internal Revenue Service

An offer in compromise allows you to settle your tax debt for less than the full amount you owe.

www.irs.gov

I have to believe that a wealthy man like Donald Trump has more negotiating leverage than a typical taxpayer.

By the same token, a senior or former senior official would have more negotiating leverage with the FBI, than a sergeant who is caught with classified material in his foot locker.

 

[efil4]

Respectfully, DaveXA, there is. The IRS itself describes on example its own website:

Offer in compromise | Internal Revenue Service

An offer in compromise allows you to settle your tax debt for less than the full amount you owe.

www.irs.gov

I have to believe that a wealthy man like Donald Trump has more negotiating leverage than a typical taxpayer.

By the same token, a senior or former senior official would have more negotiating leverage with the FBI, than a sergeant who is caught with classified material in his foot locker.

he would. if he complied immediately instead of insisting it was "his" and he can "declassify just by thinking it"

he is the epitome of FAFO. ( past tense )

 

[Snarky Sack]

You didn't answer a very straightforward question. Let me give you a sentence stem: "I think that the redactions in the photo are most likely hiding ___________."

Thank you for the sentence stem, cuddlemonkey.

I think that the redactions in the photo are most likely hiding what the FBI wanted us to believe is a number of classified documents that they found scattered on the floor.

I think that the redaction in the photo are most likely hiding what the FBI wanted us to believe is a number of classified documents that they found scattered on the floor.

 

[Snarky Sack]

anyone surprised by this?
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After his arraignment Tuesday, former President Donald Trump visited Versailles, a locally renowned Cuban restaurant in Miami's Little Havana, suggesting food would be provided for the rallying crowd of supporters who showed up.

But the Republican frontrunner did not treat his fans to any grub in the restaurant-bakery, a source with knowledge of the matter told the Miami New Times.

"It turns out no one got anything," the outlet reported.

MSN

I'm not sure many Trump supporters would have interpreted that as providing free food. Most of us prefer to work hard for what we have.

I believe that providing small gifts in exchange for votes and support is a technique much more often used by a different party.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Thank you for the sentence stem, cuddlemonkey.



I think that the redaction in the photo are most likely hiding what the FBI wanted us to believe is a number of classified documents that they found scattered on the floor.

That's still not an answer. Let's try a few yes/no questions.

1. Do you believe that the FBI found those documents at Mar-a-Lago?

2. Do you believe that the redactions are hiding classified information?

 

[Snarky Sack]

Asking Pence if he would pardon Trump is understood to be based on the presumption that he had been found guilty. It's a straightforward question.

Yes, which is why I would not have answered it. Presumption of guilt is not an American ideal.

I would doubt that this was Pence's reason. My usual theory when a politician refuses to answer a question is that they are hoping that they can have it both ways, i.e. that people on both sides of the question will expect or at least hope, that he will fall on their side.

I believe it most often has the opposite effect.

In my opinion, a promise to pardon Trump would be a great strategy to bring Trump supporters to the your side in the unlikely event his legal troubles force him out of the race before the primary. In the general, it would likely bring Trump voters out in droves.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Not sure if this has been discussed yet:

Judge orders Trump lawyers to seek security clearances

Defense attorneys commonly receive security clearances in criminal cases involving classified documents.

www.politico.com

I'm not surprise that this hasn't been done yet as it will, no doubt, slow down the process.

Very good point.

I wonder if any would attribute a pro-Trump bias in the judge doing something that will cause a delay.