Trump Indictment ( includes NY AG and Fed documents case ) (2 Viewers)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Former President D. Trump has been indicted by a New York Grand Jury. There will be much to talk about on this topic because this is just the first step in a lengthy process.
Possibly it is worthy of its own thread here rather than posting about Trump's indictment in already existing threads?
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This 3/31/23 story might get the ball rolling....
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Manhattan’s DA wanted a Friday Trump arrest. Trump’s team said no.

Secret Service needed more time to prepare, according to the ex-president’s legal team.

www.yahoo.com

 

[UriUT]

The search warrant at Mar-A-Lago was August 8. So they were too slow to stop the boxes from being taken to Bedminster. The since-retired FBI agent that Jordan is crowing about was dragging his feet, objecting to the search warrant, and so forth. Some folks are speculating that he delayed it to the point that boxes were taken out in July from Mar-A-Lago and moved to Bedminster. I’m not saying he knew or anything. Just that he was sympathetic to Trump and trying to delay things.

How is that possible? I am under the impression that the special counsel has his own team?

 

[MT15]

How is that possible? I am under the impression that the special counsel has his own team?

He has a team of lawyers, but FBI agents carried out the search at Mar-A-Lago. Some of Smith’s team may have been there too, but agents did the search, as far as I know.

 

[UriUT]

I'm going to test out a post.news link.

Quick Path Out Of Trouble For Trump. 🤬 🤬 🤬

One former federal prosecutor turned high-end defense attorney, Ken White, sees a quick path out of trouble for Trump. He said all Trump needs is a judge completely in the tank for him — a judge who is willing to sacrifice their reputation in order to protect him. And guess what? T

post.news

But just in case:

So you think they've got Trump right where they want him, eh? Wait till you hear what this former federal prosecutor turned high-end defense attorney has to say.

If you think Donald Trump is finally, really, actually, but for real this time, about to face justice — hold on just one moment.

www.yahoo.com

I would like a lawyer to comment on this, because news is that Aileen Cannon may be the permanent judge.

But one former federal prosecutor turned high-end defense attorney, Ken White, sees a quick path out of trouble for Trump. He said all Trump needs is a judge completely in the tank for him — a judge who is willing to sacrifice their reputation in order to protect him.

"So, for instance, if she started to rule all these statements Trump made, 'that's too prejudicial. It's unfair. I'm keeping it out.' If that goes up on appeal, that's an abuse of discretion standard. And normally, you can't appeal it before the case."

"Most drastically, she can do things that can't be repaired. Once a jury is impaneled, she can dismiss the case. And there's not a gosh darned thing anyone can do about it. Double Jeopardy attaches; you're done. She can grant a motion for directed verdict of acquittal after the government's case. And then we're done. You can't be retried, can't be reviewed. It's over."

 

[MT15]

I found an article from March in WaPo:

“Months of disputes between Justice Department prosecutors and FBI agents over how best to try to recover classified documents from Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club and residence led to a tense showdown near the end of July last year, according to four people familiar with the discussions.

Prosecutors argued that new evidence suggested Trump was knowingly concealing secret documents at his Palm Beach, Fla., home and urged the FBI to conduct a surprise raid at the property. But two senior FBI officials who would be in charge of leading the search resisted the plan as too combative and proposed instead to seek Trump’s permission to search his property, according to the four people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe a sensitive investigation.

Prosecutors ultimately prevailed in that dispute, one of several previously unreported clashes in a tense tug of war between two arms of the Justice Department over how aggressively to pursue a criminal investigation of a former president. The FBI conducted an unprecedented raid on Aug. 8, recovering more than 100 classified items, among them a document describing a foreign government’s military defenses, including its nuclear capabilities.”

One of the two agents who were slowing things down has since retired and is the one Jordan is using to claim that the DOJ was too aggressive and treating Trump differently. To me, knowing what we know now, it’s obvious that the DOJ didn’t act soon enough or aggressively enough. It makes Jordan look like a fool and that FBI agent should be sick to his stomach after finding out what Trump had at Bedminster and was showing around.

 

[MT15]

I'm going to test out a post.news link.

Quick Path Out Of Trouble For Trump. 🤬 🤬 🤬

One former federal prosecutor turned high-end defense attorney, Ken White, sees a quick path out of trouble for Trump. He said all Trump needs is a judge completely in the tank for him — a judge who is willing to sacrifice their reputation in order to protect him. And guess what? T

post.news

But just in case:

So you think they've got Trump right where they want him, eh? Wait till you hear what this former federal prosecutor turned high-end defense attorney has to say.

If you think Donald Trump is finally, really, actually, but for real this time, about to face justice — hold on just one moment.

www.yahoo.com

I would like a lawyer to comment on this, because news is that Aileen Cannon may be the permanent judge.

We need Chuck, or one of our other lawyers. But I thought federal judges had some fairly comprehensive ethical standards and rules for recusals. Joyce Vance seems to think the entire circuit could weigh in and force her to step aside.

 

[UriUT]

I found an article from March in WaPo:

“Months of disputes between Justice Department prosecutors and FBI agents over how best to try to recover classified documents from Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Club and residence led to a tense showdown near the end of July last year, according to four people familiar with the discussions.

Prosecutors argued that new evidence suggested Trump was knowingly concealing secret documents at his Palm Beach, Fla., home and urged the FBI to conduct a surprise raid at the property. But two senior FBI officials who would be in charge of leading the search resisted the plan as too combative and proposed instead to seek Trump’s permission to search his property, according to the four people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe a sensitive investigation.

Prosecutors ultimately prevailed in that dispute, one of several previously unreported clashes in a tense tug of war between two arms of the Justice Department over how aggressively to pursue a criminal investigation of a former president. The FBI conducted an unprecedented raid on Aug. 8, recovering more than 100 classified items, among them a document describing a foreign government’s military defenses, including its nuclear capabilities.”

One of the two agents who were slowing things down has since retired and is the one Jordan is using to claim that the DOJ was too aggressive and treating Trump differently. To me, knowing what we know now, it’s obvious that the DOJ didn’t act soon enough or aggressively enough. It makes Jordan look like a fool and that FBI agent should be sick to his stomach after finding out what Trump had at Bedminster and was showing around.

Reminds me of the whole Comey/Clinton thing again. I remembered that had he not announce, someone in the FBI office in SDNY would release something. Turns out we had a Russian double agent there at the time. I had thought it was Rudy's friend. Still could be.

 

[UriUT]

We need Chuck, or one of our other lawyers. But I thought federal judges had some fairly comprehensive ethical standards and rules for recusals. Joyce Vance seems to think the entire circuit could weigh in and force her to step aside.

But what if as in the scenario posed by White, she didn't care about her reputation and just declared a a mistrial?

 

[MT15]

But what if as in the scenario posed by White, she didn't care about her reputation and just declared a a mistrial?

I think in Vance’s scenario, she is asked to step aside before the case actually begins.

ETA: According to the thread I just posted, if Smith wants to request recusal, he must do it quickly, like by the arraignment.

 

[MT15]

Reminds me of the whole Comey/Clinton thing again. I remembered that had he not announce, someone in the FBI office in SDNY would release something. Turns out we had a Russian double agent there at the time. I had thought it was Rudy's friend. Still could be.

Yeah, this is why the lies about the DOJ and FBI being in the tank for Dems are so pernicious. Both of these institutions are filled with conservatives. And now that Trump has corrupted conservatism, or at the very least made conservatives more willing to circumvent the rule of law and societal norms, we are seeing that a fair number of FBI and DOJ employees are falling into that mode.

 

[MT15]

This is a great thread on recusal and how and when Smith may file if he wants to request it. Also, if you read to the end, the entire 11th Circuit will review if recusal is requested and she refuses.

 

[MT15]

I’m not seeing Daniel Dale on Twitter anymore. We need his services:

 

[Optimus Prime]

Donald Trump delivered his first public address following the announcement of his federal indictment this week in Columbus, Georgia, on Saturday.

The former president took the stage at the state Republican convention in Georgia in the afternoon where he lashed out against the Department of Justice, the FBI and the Biden administration, called his recent indictment “a travesty of justice” and repeated unsupported conspiratorial claims that Joe Biden had stashed secret documents in the Chinatown neighborhood of Washington DC.

“We got to stand up to the … radical left Democrats, their lawless partisan prosecutors … Every time I fly over a blue state, I get a subpoena,” said Trump at the onset of the meandering speech that attempted to bridge his legal troubles with campaign promises.

“I’ve put everything on the line and I will never yield. I will never be detained. I will never stop fighting for you,” he added.

He went on to launch a tirade against federal officials, saying, “Now the Marxist left is once again using the same corrupt DoJ [justice department] and the same corrupt FBI, and the attorney general and the local district attorneys to interfere … They’re cheating. They’re crooked. They’re corrupt. These criminals cannot be rewarded. They must be defeated. You have to defeat them.

“Because in the end, they’re not coming after me. They’re coming after you and I’m just standing in their way,” he said.

Trump accused the Biden administration of weaponizing the justice department, calling the recent indictment “ridiculous and baseless” and “among the most horrific abuses of power in the history of our country”.

He went on to add that “the only good thing about [the indictment] is it’s driven my poll numbers way up”.

Trump repeated his baseless attacks against his former opponent Hillary Clinton, whom the state department investigated for several years over her use of private email before it found “no persuasive evidence of … deliberate mishandling of classified documents”

He also lashed out at Joe Biden over the classified documents from his time as vice-president and senator which were found in his office in Washington and his Delaware home.

“Nothing happened to Crooked Joe with all that … He has so many classified documents … This is a sick nest of people that needs to be cleaned out immediately,” said Trump as the crowd cheered fervently.……

‘I will never be detained’: Trump defiant in first speech since federal indictment

Former president, who faces 37 charges related to retention of secret documents, addresses Republican conventions in Georgia and North Carolina

www.theguardian.com

 

[Huntn]

I'm wondering what the hope of Trump opponents is for this. I know that ultimately they would like to see him imprisoned or even given the death penalty, but I mean realistically. Is it for him to be convicted of a felony before the 2024 election? That has to be the goal, right? It is very unlikely.

The documents investigation has so far been like a chess game in which White not only gets the first move, but then gets as many unanswered moves as it likes until it puts Black in check. Trump has been able to take little legal action, while the DOJ/FBI works on witnesses, digs through documents, plans its strategies, and unlawfully feeds its versions of events to CNN et al.

To torture the metaphor further, they have now put Trump in check by indicting him. Great for several days of headlines, but now Trump is allowed to make moves of his own.

Cut to the chase, Trump not only has moves, he has time on the clock. He can't take as much as he likes, but he can take plenty for his purpose, which is to not be convicted before November of 2024, or before he takes office in January 2025. That happens, he simply grants himself a pardon for all conceivable crimes and the purge of the Entrenched Bureaucracy begins.

It took almost ten months from the Mar-a-Lago raid to the indictment. They have used up more than a third of the time they had between the raid and the election.

Trump has a friendly judge in charge of his case now and several friends at the Supreme Court who will likely decide every appeal of every motion that Trump's expensive lawyers throw up.

Popcorn time!

I’m kind of new here, what do you hope for Mr.Trump?

I’d suggest you view Mr Trump as the mob boss with the Feds on his tail. What moves as he been deprived of? He’s a criminal being investigated for violations of the espionage act.

And you know what the saddest thing is? Instead of throwing his hands up and saying Crap I forked up, what do you need me to do to make this right? Upon he would have been handled like all the other leaders with classified doors in their residence, (except when you look the amount of material he made off with as he was vacating the White House, this puts him in a different league than finding stray documents stashed away after a leader is out of office.)

Instead he thinks he’s Mr Brilliant who will stone wall the Feds running circles around them, pull the wool over their eyes, talk his way out of it and force them to raid his place to actually get the documents back, while doing a conbinarion of bragging and whining to his losers about 1) how he did nothing wrong by making off with many boxes of highly classified documents that he had no right to, and 2) he magically rewrites the law according to Donny he broke no law, and tries to sell his gullible base that he is just being persecuted by his political opponents.

Among the MAGA types there is such a low bar set that any shirt the rolls off his tongue becomes the sweetest candy they have ever devoured.

 

[MT15]

 

[Snarky Sack]

Exactly!

Yes, exactly! There have been far more than hints about impropriety and yet the case continues.

Where are the Grand Jury leaks???? You're the one claiming that DoJ has been leaking this info? Prove it. Your claims are pure speculation just like mine. The difference is that Smith and his team has been radio silent throughout their investigation. Can you say the same about Trump? Considering how he has handled all of his past investigations, it is very reasonable to conclude he would continue his past behavior...even you would agree:

If the leaks aren't coming from the doj or the grand jury, how has CNN been getting these exclusives?

Your "proof" of DoJ leaks links are both from June 2023.

Updated in June 2023.

Former President Donald Trump acknowledged on tape in a 2021 meeting that he had retained “secret” military information that he had not declassified, according to a transcript of the audio recording obtained by CNN.

“As president, I could have declassified, but now I can’t,” Trump says, according to the transcript.

CNN obtained the transcript of a portion of the meeting where Trump is discussing a classified Pentagon document about attacking Iran. In the audio recording, which CNN previously reported was obtained by prosecutors, Trump says that he did not declassify the document he’s referencing, according to the transcript.

How did CNN "obtain" that information? If it was obtained by prosecutors who else could have given it to them.

Again, where are the Grand Jury leaks?

I never said I had proof. It makes a lot more sense that anti-Trumper prosecutors are leaking to CNN than your rather bizarre theory that Trump is actually doing the leaking.

Do they have a history of making up stories? Prove it.

CNN? Are you serious?

They pushed the Russia collusion conspiracy theory, they pushed the "Nick Sandman, White Supremacist!" narrative and had to settle a $275 Million dollar lawsuit with the kid they slandered. They passed debate questions to the Clinton campaign when she was to debate Bernie Sanders. CNN reported that the Steele Dossier was truthful, even before Buzzfeed published it.

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[Taurus]

Bring it, Kari you sniveling coward.

 

[MT15]

Yes, exactly! There have been far more than hints about impropriety and yet the case continues.

If the leaks aren't coming from the doj or the grand jury, how has CNN been getting these exclusives?

Updated in June 2023.

Former President Donald Trump acknowledged on tape in a 2021 meeting that he had retained “secret” military information that he had not declassified, according to a transcript of the audio recording obtained by CNN.

“As president, I could have declassified, but now I can’t,” Trump says, according to the transcript.

CNN obtained the transcript of a portion of the meeting where Trump is discussing a classified Pentagon document about attacking Iran. In the audio recording, which CNN previously reported was obtained by prosecutors, Trump says that he did not declassify the document he’s referencing, according to the transcript.

How did CNN "obtain" that information? If it was obtained by prosecutors who else could have given it to them.

I never said I had proof. It makes a lot more sense that anti-Trumper prosecutors are leaking to CNN than your rather bizarre theory that Trump is actually doing the leaking.

CNN? Are you serious?

They pushed the Russia collusion conspiracy theory, they pushed the "Nick Sandman, White Supremacist!" narrative and had to settle a $275 Million dollar lawsuit with the kid they slandered. They passed debate questions to the Clinton campaign when she was to debate Bernie Sanders. CNN reported that the Steele Dossier was truthful, even before Buzzfeed published it.

No, the leaks are coming from grand jury witnesses and from Trump’s lawyers. Yes, somebody else besides prosecutors has the recording. Are you that dense, or do you take us for being that dense?

It makes far more sense that the leaks are coming from the sources I mentioned than from prosecutors.