Trump Indictment ( includes NY AG and Fed documents case ) (1 Viewer)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Former President D. Trump has been indicted by a New York Grand Jury. There will be much to talk about on this topic because this is just the first step in a lengthy process.
Possibly it is worthy of its own thread here rather than posting about Trump's indictment in already existing threads?
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This 3/31/23 story might get the ball rolling....
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Manhattan’s DA wanted a Friday Trump arrest. Trump’s team said no.

Secret Service needed more time to prepare, according to the ex-president’s legal team.

www.yahoo.com

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Warning: Language

Also: Funny and accurate

There's no language

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

There's no language

You have to read the thread...it will be worth it.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

There's no language

In the thread. I assumed it was in the first tweet and misremembered it.

 

[Optimus Prime]

…….The Republican campaign to discredit federal prosecutors skims over the substance of those charges, which were brought by a grand jury in Florida. GOP lawmakers are instead working, as they have for several years, to foster a broader argument that law enforcement — and President Joe Biden — are conspiring against the former president and possible Republican nominee for president in 2024.

“Today is indeed a dark day for the United States of America,” tweeted House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, soon after Trump said on his social media platform Thursday night that an indictment was coming. McCarthy blamed Biden, who has declined to comment on the case and said he is not at all involved in the Justice Department’s decisions.


McCarthy called it a “grave injustice” and said that House Republicans “will hold this brazen weaponization of power accountable.”

Republican lawmakers in the House have already laid extensive groundwork for the effort to defend Trump since taking the majority in January. A near constant string of hearings featuring former FBI agents, Twitter executives and federal officials have sought to paint the narrative of a corrupt government using its powers against Trump and the right. A GOP-led House subcommittee on the “weaponization” of government is probing the Justice Department and other government agencies, while at the same time Republicans are investigating Biden’s son Hunter Biden.


“It’s a sad day for America,” Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Jordan of Ohio, a leading Trump defender and ally in the House, said in a statement on Thursday evening. “God bless President Trump.”

Arizona Rep. Andy Biggs was more strident. “We have now reached a war phase,” he tweeted. “Eye for an eye.”

Democrats say the Republicans are trafficking in conspiracy theories, with potentially dangerous consequences. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, both Democrats from New York, issued a joint statement Friday urging calm around the Trump case, saying everyone should “let this case proceed peacefully in court.”


Recent Republicans rhetoric “not only undermines the Department of Justice but betrays the essential principle of justice that no one is above the commands of law, not even a former President or a self-proclaimed billionaire,” said Rep. Jamie Raskin, the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee.


Key elements of the GOP strategy are to discredit the prosecutors and investigate the investigators — a playbook that Republicans employed during Trump’s presidency as his own Justice Department probed his connections to Russia, and also used in April when Trump was charged in a hush money investigation in New York.……

Trump's GOP defenders in Congress leap into action on charges after months of preparation

Former President Donald Trump’s indictment on charges of mishandling classified documents is set to play out in federal court in Florida. But thousands of miles away in Washington, part of Trump’s defense is well underway in a different venue — the halls of Congress, where Republicans have been...

apnews.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

Anderson Cooper interviewed Chris Sununu and I’m paraphrasing said something like:

“Republicans are claiming this is nothing more than a weaponized department of Justice engaging in a political witch hunt. Do you believe that Joe Biden is prosecuting Donald Trump to win an election?”

To which Sununu responded “the Department of Justice under Joe Biden’s administration is prosecuting Donald Trump. That’s just a fact”

Yes that is technically correct. But it’s also a completely evasive non answer

 

[UriUT]

I haven't seen defenses of him actually being not guilty of the charges. I've seen, holding nuclear secrets (our weakness and potential that can be exploited btw) where Chinese spies roamed, as nothing burgers. I see whataboutism..."hey I'm upset that Hillary and Biden got away with it. Plus all these posters are mean to me". I see gas lighting. I've seen promises of vengeance when a repub president takes over....and prosecution will happen whether true guilt warranted it or not.

But no "he's not guilty of the charges". That is true banana republic shirt. And it's damn right that if we can prosecute trump we can prosecute anyone. It's called rule of law. No one is above the law. Fundamental in any non authoritarian society.

I want to add that trump has special treatment from our government and we do indeed have a special system for his ilk. The rest of us are either cutting deals or are in prison begging for leniency. That's the Bs that these goons pushed our rule of law.

 

[Snarky Sack]

good read from David Frum
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It’s as sincere as the grief at a Mafia funeral.

Who believes that Governor Ron DeSantis—so badly trailing in the polls behind former President Donald Trump—is genuinely upset by his rival’s federal indictment? Or that Speaker Kevin McCarthy—so disgusted by Trump in private—does not inwardly rejoice to see Trump meet justice?

The Fox News talkers have been trying for months to sideline Trump and promote DeSantis. Now they have a turn of events that promises both to help their corporate political agenda and to stoke controversy and ratings. They must be positively ecstatic at the network’s New York headquarters today.

So many in the Republican and conservative world wish Trump off the stage. So few possess the courage or integrity to say so aloud.

Special Counsel Jack Smith now presents them with an opportunity—if they can find their way past a hitherto intractable, and perhaps still unsolvable, problem of collective action.

If you are DeSantis, here’s what you want to see happen:

1. Trump is indicted, prosecuted, convicted, and thereby banished from public life.
2. You champion Trump every step of the way, acting as his fiercest and loudest ally.
3. To your pretend regret, your Trump advocacy fails to shield Trump from the law.
4. Trump is removed from the path to office; you inherit all of Trump’s supporters.

Kevin McCarthy and the Fox News talkers share similar interests and goals

But here’s the intractable collective-action problem: These plans depend on the non-Trump political actors performing just convincingly enough that their audience is deceived, but not so convincingly that their audience is mobilized to actually do something inconvenient about it. That undesirable something might be some kind of mass protest or even violence. Or possibly it would take the form of conservative voters losing faith in the system and withdrawing from voting and political participation altogether.

The conservative world in the age of Trump has coiled itself into a labyrinth of lies: lies about Trump’s victimhood, lies about Trump’s popularity, lies about Trump’s election outcomes, lies about Trump’s mental acuity and physical strength. The architects of the labyrinth presumed that they could always, if necessary, find an exit—and that their keys could someday turn the exit’s locks. Instead, they have found themselves as lost and trapped in the labyrinth as the deceived people they lured into it.

As a result, they have failed to take each opportunity to escape: the first impeachment, the November 2020 defeat, the January 6 crimes, the second impeachment, the end of the administration, the 2022 wipeout of swing-state election-denying candidates, the first indictment, and now this second indictment.

Along the way, these architects have taught tens of millions of Republican voters and conservative believers to regard the labyrinth of lies as their proper political home. Why escape at all? Escape to where? The ironic outcome of all this is that the deceived followers now block the exits for the deceptive leaders................

An Exit From the GOP’s Labyrinth of Trump Lies

The special counsel’s indictment offers party leaders their best escape from the loyalty trap yet—if they choose to take it.

www.theatlantic.com

I've seen these ideas from many Democrats, that Republican leaders secretly are happy for Trump to be indicted since it serves their own political ends. They are correct about that.

I keep waiting for them to connect the dots that it is not only Republicans, but also Democrats who of course would benefit politically from a Trump conviction that bars him from office. That includes the Republicans and Democrats in charge of the DOJ and the FBI. Do they really believe that the Republicans are evil and completely politically motivated, while the Democrats are just these white knights interested only in truth, justice and all that stuff?

When Hillary kept thousands of classified documents and refused to return them, eventually physically destroying servers and devices, she was not indicted even after James Comey listed her crimes in front of the nation. Clinton was the epitome of the Washington establishment, much more so that Bill.

Get rid of Trump and get back to business as usual is the goal. I believe that it was his talk of stopping the killing in Ukraine in 24 hours that was the last straw. The killing in Ukraine is very lucrative, and now there is talk of more tanks and planes. Trump would barbecue that cash cow, and that would be bad for the sponsors of the two parties.

 

[UriUT]

Something that I thought was very interesting that was discussed was asked about the counts compared to everything that was seized...

We only know about the 38 counts. There could've been an extreme amount of charges levied against Trump. However, how it was explained, the indictment it's only for charges that Smith was allowed to bring based on the classified documents. I can't remember who it was (maybe Andrew McCabe), but what was explained was that everything had to be presented to the intelligence community first, and things deemed too sensitive (active missions, etc.) could not be used in the indictment.

This is a good point that answers one of my questions. We are talking about top secret stuff. What happens when the jury wants to see it.

 

[UriUT]

I've seen these ideas from many Democrats, that Republican leaders secretly are happy for Trump to be indicted since it serves their own political ends. They are correct about that.

I keep waiting for them to connect the dots that it is not only Republicans, but also Democrats who of course would benefit politically from a Trump conviction that bars him from office. That includes the Republicans and Democrats in charge of the DOJ and the FBI. Do they really believe that the Republicans are evil and completely politically motivated, while the Democrats are just these white knights interested only in truth, justice and all that stuff?

When Hillary kept thousands of classified documents and stalled in returning them, eventually physically destroying servers and divices, she was not indicted even after James Comey listed her crimes in front of the nation. Clinton was the epitome of the Washington establishment, much more so that Bill.

Get rid of Trump and get back to business as usual is the goal. I believe that it was his talk of stopping the killing in Ukraine in 24 hours that was the last straw. The killing in Ukraine is very lucrative, and now there is talk of more tanks and planes. Trump would barbecue that cash cow, and that would be bad for the sponsors of the two parties.

"Lock her up!". Buttery males. Benghazi.

 

[UriUT]

I've seen these ideas from many Democrats, that Republican leaders secretly are happy for Trump to be indicted since it serves their own political ends. They are correct about that.

I keep waiting for them to connect the dots that it is not only Republicans, but also Democrats who of course would benefit politically from a Trump conviction that bars him from office. That includes the Republicans and Democrats in charge of the DOJ and the FBI. Do they really believe that the Republicans are evil and completely politically motivated, while the Democrats are just these white knights interested only in truth, justice and all that stuff?

When Hillary kept thousands of classified documents and refused to return them, eventually physically destroying servers and devices, she was not indicted even after James Comey listed her crimes in front of the nation. Clinton was the epitome of the Washington establishment, much more so that Bill.

Get rid of Trump and get back to business as usual is the goal. I believe that it was his talk of stopping the killing in Ukraine in 24 hours that was the last straw. The killing in Ukraine is very lucrative, and now there is talk of more tanks and planes. Trump would barbecue that cash cow, and that would be bad for the sponsors of the two parties.

In case you want to understand the political hit job by Bannon and the right wing media sphere on Hillary Clinton. We know uranium one isnt true. While you birch about Hilary's private server, pence, Jared, Ivanka and practically all of trumps admin using Whatsapp and other private communications etc. Hilarys server was what Powell advised that she should do as most dc politicians did then.

Edit no she didn't keep thousands of top secrets on her servers

 

[Snarky Sack]

I'm wondering what the hope of Trump opponents is for this. I know that ultimately they would like to see him imprisoned or even given the death penalty, but I mean realistically. Is it for him to be convicted of a felony before the 2024 election? That has to be the goal, right? It is very unlikely.

The documents investigation has so far been like a chess game in which White not only gets the first move, but then gets as many unanswered moves as it likes until it puts Black in check. Trump has been able to take little legal action, while the DOJ/FBI works on witnesses, digs through documents, plans its strategies, and unlawfully feeds its versions of events to CNN et al.

To torture the metaphor further, they have now put Trump in check by indicting him. Great for several days of headlines, but now Trump is allowed to make moves of his own.

Cut to the chase, Trump not only has moves, he has time on the clock. He can't take as much as he likes, but he can take plenty for his purpose, which is to not be convicted before November of 2024, or before he takes office in January 2025. That happens, he simply grants himself a pardon for all conceivable crimes and the purge of the Entrenched Bureaucracy begins.

It took almost ten months from the Mar-a-Lago raid to the indictment. They have used up more than a third of the time they had between the raid and the election.

Trump has a friendly judge in charge of his case now and several friends at the Supreme Court who will likely decide every appeal of every motion that Trump's expensive lawyers throw up.

Popcorn time!

 

[Snarky Sack]

This is a good point that answers one of my questions. We are talking about top secret stuff. What happens when the jury wants to see it.

More to the point, what happens when Team Trump wants to see it as part of discovery? If they are denied, they will say that the DOJ/FBI is withholding exculpatory evidence. What are they going to say? "Gosh judge, nothing in those documents is exculpatory. If we could show it to you, you'd surely agree, but . . . "

 

[Snarky Sack]

In case you want to understand the political hit job by Bannon and the right wing media sphere on Hillary Clinton. We know uranium one isnt true. While you birch about Hilary's private server, pence, Jared, Ivanka and practically all of trumps admin using Whatsapp and other private communications etc. Hilarys server was what Powell advised that she should do as most dc politicians did then.

Edit no she didn't keep thousands of top secrets on her servers

If there is something in that NPR story that says that Hillary did not keep thousands of classified documents in her servers, you are welcome to quote it. I never said that she kept thousands of top secrets.

If your point is that "everyone does it," you're absolutely right. At high levels and low levels, classified information is often not handled in the strict way envisioned by laws, protocols and SOPs. I served my first two years as a 2nd Lieutenant in the Army in an MI unit in Germany, and I was shocked at first by how cavalier they were about classified info.

I only birch about Hillary's private server because of the double standard, the two-tiered justice system, which is actually multi-tiered.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I'm wondering what the hope of Trump opponents is for this. I know that ultimately they would like to see him imprisoned or even given the death penalty, but I mean realistically. Is it for him to be convicted of a felony before the 2024 election? That has to be the goal, right? It is very unlikely.

The documents investigation has so far been like a chess game in which White not only gets the first move, but then gets as many unanswered moves as it likes until it puts Black in check. Trump has been able to take little legal action, while the DOJ/FBI works on witnesses, digs through documents, plans its strategies, and unlawfully feeds its versions of events to CNN et al.

To torture the metaphor further, they have now put Trump in check by indicting him. Great for several days of headlines, but now Trump is allowed to make moves of his own.

Cut to the chase, Trump not only has moves, he has time on the clock. He can't take as much as he likes, but he can take plenty for his purpose, which is to not be convicted before November of 2024, or before he takes office in January 2025. That happens, he simply grants himself a pardon for all conceivable crimes and the purge of the Entrenched Bureaucracy begins.

It took almost ten months from the Mar-a-Lago raid to the indictment. They have used up more than a third of the time they had between the raid and the election.

Trump has a friendly judge in charge of his case now and several friends at the Supreme Court who will likely decide every appeal of every motion that Trump's expensive lawyers throw up.

Popcorn time!

No integrity...NONE...and PROUD!

 

[Saintamaniac]

Cut to the chase, Trump not only has moves, he has time on the clock. He can't take as much as he likes, but he can take plenty for his purpose, which is to not be convicted before November of 2024, or before he takes office in January 2025. That happens, he simply grants himself a pardon for all conceivable crimes and the purge of the Entrenched Bureaucracy begins.

This kinda makes a huge assumption that Trump gets re-elected.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I'm wondering what the hope of Trump opponents is for this. I know that ultimately they would like to see him imprisoned or even given the death penalty, but I mean realistically. Is it for him to be convicted of a felony before the 2024 election? That has to be the goal, right? It is very unlikely.

The documents investigation has so far been like a chess game in which White not only gets the first move, but then gets as many unanswered moves as it likes until it puts Black in check. Trump has been able to take little legal action, while the DOJ/FBI works on witnesses, digs through documents, plans its strategies, and unlawfully feeds its versions of events to CNN et al.

Do you mean the target of the investigation has little room to stop or hinder the investigation? Oh no, the horrors...

To torture the metaphor further, they have now put Trump in check by indicting him. Great for several days of headlines, but now Trump is allowed to make moves of his own.

Cut to the chase, Trump not only has moves, he has time on the clock. He can't take as much as he likes, but he can take plenty for his purpose, which is to not be convicted before November of 2024, or before he takes office in January 2025. That happens, he simply grants himself a pardon for all conceivable crimes and the purge of the Entrenched Bureaucracy begins.

Draining the swamp...

It took almost ten months from the Mar-a-Lago raid to the indictment. They have used up more than a third of the time they had between the raid and the election.

Trump has a friendly judge in charge of his case now and several friends at the Supreme Court who will likely decide every appeal of every motion that Trump's expensive lawyers throw up.

Popcorn time!

... except for the swamp that's helping him.

 

[Snarky Sack]

This kinda makes a huge assumption that Trump gets re-elected.

No, I'm not assuming that. My point is that this is Trump's goal. I think the indictment locks Trump into the nomination, but the general election depends mainly on whether the Democrats are able to dump Biden. By Democrats, I mean the Democrat voters. The Democratic establishment loves Biden for the Same reason the GOP establishment hates Trump. Control.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Do you mean the target of the investigation has little room to stop or hinder the investigation? Oh no, the horrors...

If they just quietly conducted their investigation, not so much of a horror. The target isn't really affected by the investigation

Pretty horrible that they leak so much information that is lawfully supposed to be secret to meet their own political goals. The FBI has always fought dirty when it comes to their perceived political enemies.