Trump continues to claim that the only way he will lose is if Democrats "rig" the election (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

I don't think I have ever heard a presidential candidate make such a claim. Trump has now been making a version of this claim for several weeks. This kind of rhetoric has no genuine political value - it isn't based on policy or appeal. It serves only to predispose a segment of the electorate (his supporters) to reject any result of the election in which Trump does not win.

Certainly the claim isn't based on anything scientific and polling shows the president lagging behind Biden both nationally and in swing states. So is this rhetoric dangerous? Should Republicans urge the president to stop making such claims? Or is this all just politics and we should have faith that the institutions will prevail?

 

[The moose]

I still say he resigns before then in order for Pence to pardon him.

That is exactly what he is gonna do is the dick move that tricky dick did.

 

[Taurus]

I don't think I have ever heard a presidential candidate make such a claim. Trump has now been making a version of this claim for several weeks. This kind of rhetoric has no genuine political value - it isn't based on policy or appeal. It serves only to predispose a segment of the electorate (his supporters) to reject any result of the election in which Trump does not win.

Certainly the claim isn't based on anything scientific and polling shows the president lagging behind Biden both nationally and in swing states. So is this rhetoric dangerous? Should Republicans urge the president to stop making such claims? Or is this all just politics and we should have faith that the institutions will prevail?

If the Republicans gave a single rat-fart about the nation, we wouldn't be talking about Trump anymore. He'd be out on his arse already.

But yes, they should tell him to tone it down. Since, y'know, the Republic is supposed to outlast any particular resident in the Oval Office and faith in our elections is why a Democratic Republic works in the first place. It's not like they don't have the power to reign him in, either. McConnell could privately whisper to 'ol Donnie that if he so much as hinted to Pelosi that another impeachment would result in removal, Don would be punted farther and faster than a mortar shell.
The fact that he hasn't tells me that Moscow Mitch is just fine with all of this. It's completely secondary to the task of stacking every Federal court in the land with a far-right lunatic.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I still say he resigns before then in order for Pence to pardon him.

I can't imagine Trump will ever resign, his ego wouldn't allow it

But wouldn't it be something if Trump resigns and Pence for whatever reason does a 180 and doesn't pardon him?

 

[CoolBrees]

I mean, he LOST Nevada last time out. So the only what he will lose it through cheating despite the fact he already lost there once?!?

He really does have the lowest opinion of his own constituency.

 

[Saintamaniac]

I can't imagine Trump will ever resign, his ego wouldn't allow it

But wouldn't it be something if Trump resigns and Pence for whatever reason does a 180 and doesn't pardon him?

I was thinking the same thing. Pence, in a failed attempt to salvage his reputation, announces publically that he will allow the justice system to run its course for Trump. Trump would immediately board his plane and head to Moscow.

 

[Taurus]

I was thinking the same thing. Pence, in a failed attempt to salvage his reputation, announces publically that he will allow the justice system to run its course for Trump. Trump would immediately board his plane and head to Moscow.

How would that even work? Would the Secret Service step aside and let the FBI cuff him?

 

[superchuck500]

I was thinking the same thing. Pence, in a failed attempt to salvage his reputation, announces publically that he will allow the justice system to run its course for Trump. Trump would immediately board his plane and head to Moscow.

 

[Saintamaniac]

How would that even work? Would the Secret Service step aside and let the FBI cuff him?

Of course this would never happen but until charged and ordered to surrender his passport, he would be free to go where ever he pleased....with his assigned Secret Service in tow.

 

[Taurus]

Of course this would never happen but until charged and ordered to surrender his passport, he would be free to go where ever he pleased....with his assigned Secret Service in tow.

I guess that'll make it easier to bring him in once he's indicted.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Which part?

That Trump would resign?

That Pence wouldn’t pardon him if he did resign?

Or that Trump would flee the country if he wasn’t pardoned?

 

[superchuck500]

Which part?

That Trump would resign?

That Pence wouldn’t pardon him if he did resign?

Or that Trump would flee the country if he wasn’t pardoned?

That Trump would resign is high fantasy to me.

That Trump would be charged with crimes is unlikely to me.

That Pence would have some desire to salvage his reputation and not pardon Trump is also fairly high fantasy to me.

That Trump, after being charged and not pardoned, would flee the country is also high fantasy.

IMO.

 

[Saintamaniac]

That Trump would be charged with crimes is unlikely to me.

You really don't think that New York State won't file charges against Trump? Why?

 

[superchuck500]

You really don't think that New York State won't file charges against Trump? Why?

Sure, if the state of New York has evidence of Trump crimes they will charge him. I was referring to federal crimes for stuff he did as president.

(A Pence pardon wouldn't be relevant to New York state charges anyway).

 

[Saintamaniac]

Sure, if the state of New York has evidence of Trump crimes they will charge him. I was referring to federal crimes for stuff he did as president.

(A Pence pardon wouldn't be relevant to New York state charges anyway).

Then that's my bad for not being clearer. I fully expect that if trump loses he will either pardon himself or make a deal to have Pence pardon him upon resigning. I believe that if he resigns, Pence will attempt to not only pardon him for things he's done but also for anything that may have done.

 

[wardorican]

Then that's my bad for not being clearer. I fully expect that if trump loses he will either pardon himself or make a deal to have Pence pardon him upon resigning. I believe that if he resigns, Pence will attempt to not only pardon him for things he's done but also for anything that may have done.

Federal pardons in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

The president can't pardon state crimes, only federal crimes, or federal investigations.

 

[superchuck500]

Then that's my bad for not being clearer. I fully expect that if trump loses he will either pardon himself or make a deal to have Pence pardon him upon resigning. I believe that if he resigns, Pence will attempt to not only pardon him for things he's done but also for anything that may have done.

There's a pretty good rationale that a president cannot pardon himself (there's even a DOJ opinion on it from 1974 that makes that conclusion) - but it has never been truly adjudicated by the Supreme Court.

Carter gave Nixon a blanket pardon for crimes (known or unknown) that Nixon committed "as president". Of course, when Nixon resigned, he was implicated in a clear criminal conspiracy, so there was a need to have a path forward (either a prosecution or a pardon). At the moment, we don't have any such hanging criminal matter for Trump - all of America knew the basic details of that case.

If Trump were to just resign, without some matter of true consequence hanging over him, it would be even more bizarre. And then for Pence to just grant him a blanket pardon would demand answers (what was he possibly pardoning him for?). It's just all very far-fetched to me based on current knowledge.

But also to be clear, I'm not referring to possible NY state charges for Trump's shady business operations (pre-2016 or perhaps carried into the presidency but not related to his presidency) or something along those lines. Or even some kind of federal tax crime (pre-2016).

Presidential pardon power cannot impact state charges, so that would be irrelevant. And it would be particularly outrageous if Pence (or any president) were to pardon Trump for federal crimes he committed before becoming president. That doesn't mean it wouldn't happen, though.

 

[wardorican]

There's a pretty good rationale that a president cannot pardon himself (there's even a DOJ opinion on it from 1974 that makes that conclusion) - but it has never been truly adjudicated by the Supreme Court.

Carter gave Nixon a blanket pardon for crimes (known or unknown) that Nixon committed "as president". Of course, when Nixon resigned, he was implicated in a clear criminal conspiracy, so there was a need to have a path forward (either a prosecution or a pardon). At the moment, we don't have any such hanging criminal matter for Trump - all of America knew the basic details of that case.

If Trump were to just resign, without some matter of true consequence hanging over him, it would be even more bizarre. And then for Pence to just grant him a blanket pardon would demand answers (what was he possibly pardoning him for?). It's just all very far-fetched to me based on current knowledge.

But also to be clear, I'm not referring to possible NY state charges for Trump's shady business operations (pre-2016 or perhaps carried into the presidency but not related to his presidency) or something along those lines. Or even some kind of federal tax crime (pre-2016).

Presidential pardon power cannot impact state charges, so that would be irrelevant. And it would be particularly outrageous if Pence (or any president) were to pardon Trump for federal crimes he committed before becoming president. That doesn't mean it wouldn't happen, though.

Ford, not Carter.

 

[Saintamaniac]

Federal pardons in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

The president can't pardon state crimes, only federal crimes, or federal investigations.

Yes. I understand that. I was referencing my previous post where my post was interpreted to infer a pardon for state crimes. I was puzzled as to SC500's belief that trump would not be charged but he was only referring to federal crimes whereas I was referring to both federal and state crimes but didn't adequately communicate that thought. Trump either get's re-elected or Trump gets charged. IMO, the only way he escapes state charges is if he flees the country.