The Voting Thread (Procedures, Turnout, Legal Challenges)(Update: Trump to file suit in PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, GA) (8 Viewers)

[Lapaz]

There is a lot of push-back from Trump on voting by mail, but most states allow it, and 1/3 allow it without any excuse. His rationale is that it will lead to vast fraud, but of course that isn't his real reason. His real reason is that he thinks it will be worse for conservatives, but studies have shown that states that have instituted much broader voting by mail haven't had any statistical changes in party voting.

Stanford study: Mail voting doesn't benefit one party over another

Coronavirus-spurred limits have intensified a push to allow more mail balloting in November.

www.politico.com

Voting Outside the Polling Place: Absentee, All-Mail and other Voting at Home Options

Most states offer at least one method for any eligible voter to cast a ballot before Election Day. While some states provide early in-person voting, this webpage addresses absentee voting and all-mail voting.

www.ncsl.org

Although, normally voting by mail doesn't affect party votes, I bet it might this year if we have another resurgence of Covid, because I think the right is much more apt to discount the virus than the left. I know that is why Trump is against it.

Whether you're left or right wing, expanding mail in votes is the right thing to do to reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus, to expand voter participation, and to make it easier for those that do show up to stay distant. It will also allow any people with susceptibilities to remain safer. I think voting by mail could be made extremely secure by having people vote using traditional postal mail, coupled with requiring a confirmation either by phone, email or text. If done by phone, then voters can provide confirmation that can include confirming their form number. If done by email or text, it can include a picture of their form, and then confirmation that that was their form. Rather than staffers individually calling people, this can be automated by having voters call the number, text the number, or email the address provided to them on their form. A website can even be created with a database of those that have voted, and perhaps a link to allow people to confirm their vote was correctly registered. For people without computers, a site can include a means to access the database over the phone with some confirmation information. These types of systems are used extensively by banks and other sites that need security, so I think they are mature enough to use. We could even use such a site for people to confirm their vote on the day of the election.

 

[Nebaghead]

Pompeo full clip is slightly less unnerving.

Not really. Pretty much sounds like he won’t transition till the vote is certified. Which screws the US because there is a lot that can be done over the next 33 days.

 

[MT15]

yeah, now it just sounds condescending and arrogant. Still not a great look for the SOS.

 

[superchuck500]

Not really. Pretty much sounds like he won’t transition till the vote is certified. Which screws the US because there is a lot that can be done over the next 33 days.

He actually said elections certified and electors vote - that doesn’t happen until December 20 and I don’t think we can rule out the possibility that Trump and company won’t consider the election done (and still subject to alteration) until those electors vote.

 

[DaveXA]

Whatever they find won't be enough to flip the election, but it's not a bad thing to double check the validity of the voting process.

Which is fine, and much different than Trump accusing multiple states of systematic fraud and attempting to steal the election without any evidence. I mean, he came out and said this outright in that presser a couple of days ago.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

One of the findings from the 9-11 Commission was that the shortened transition caused by the 2000 recounts contributed to the lack of identifying some of the intelligence around the hijacker's activity and Al Qaeda's actions overall. That's not to say it was the only cause, just one of many contributing factors.

Right now we are facing a global pandemic. Playing footsie with the transition of a new government so we don't hurt the feelings of Fred Trump's Entitled Little Snowflake is infuriating. It will hamper their ability to hit the ground running on this and other key challenges.

Have your days in court, but get on with the business of government for the betterment of the American people for Christ's sake.

 

[not2rich]

If you want the other half of the country to feel this election was valid and legit, unlike 4 years ago, then why not check any all creditable acts of election fraud? Do I think it will be enough to over turn the election, absolutely not, we are stuck with [Mod Edit Partisan trigger] until they figure out to get Harris as POTUS. BUT....
If both sides want to avoid the reeducation camps, blocklists and have this country move forward, why not prove, beyond a doubt that our elections processes work and are above corruption? If we don't, we will have half the country doing the childish "not my president" and #resist crap again and that comes along with all the investigations, impeachments that will surly come down the pike.
If there is nothing wrong, then why stop investigations and litigation that will protect our election integrity? I thought everyone would welcome a chance that Joe won fair and square.

Are you saying the burden of proof is on our side to "prove beyond a doubt" the election was fair?

Sorry, but nope. I'm not interested in humoring a group of people who have already made up their minds based on unsupported allegations and their own bias. If Trump or anyone in the GOP want to do recounts and file lawsuits, go right ahead. Unlike Youtube and FB, lawsuits ultimately require evidence. And when those suits are revealed to have no merit, will your tribe suck it up and say, "Well, I guess the election WAS fair. Let's move on."?

I'm fine letting the legal process play out, especially since I'm quite confident it's going nowhere, but let's not pretend this is about assuring your side that the result was fair. In fact, the entire point of this "fight" from your side is to assure the exact opposite.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

One other point...

For all of these crazy lawsuits dreamed up while sniffing fertilizer fumes in the landscape company garage, the Democrats aren’t trying to stop any of them. They aren’t out commenting on them. They are letting the process work as case after case gets thrown out.

So nobody is trying to stop investigations. They are actually moving on with the business of government while letting the process play out.

 

[Farb]

I did say 'credible' acts of election fraud. I think everyone, on both sides would want to make sure they are all legal votes, especially in this election more than any other in our history.
I will say it again: I don't think this will reverse the election. I don't think Trump is going to suddenly win.
I also don't like Trump's rhetoric on this. He should just say "I am going to pursue all my legal options to make sure this was a fair election for the American people, they deserve it." Done. But he can't and no one is surprised.
Just because you don't like the messenger doesn't mean the message should be disregarded.

 

[superchuck500]

 

[bdb13]

I did say 'credible' acts of election fraud. I think everyone, on both sides would want to make sure they are all legal votes, especially in this election more than any other in our history.
I will say it again: I don't think this will reverse the election. I don't think Trump is going to suddenly win.
I also don't like Trump's rhetoric on this. He should just say "I am going to pursue all my legal options to make sure this was a fair election for the American people, they deserve it." Done. But he can't and no one is surprised.
Just because you don't like the messenger doesn't mean the message should be disregarded.

Is there somebody here in particular or someone you're referencing that's saying they want all of the legal action shut down? I think most of us are saying that the messaging is the problem..

 

[DaveXA]

If you want the other half of the country to feel this election was valid and legit, unlike 4 years ago, then why not check any all creditable acts of election fraud? Do I think it will be enough to over turn the election, absolutely not, we are stuck with [Mod Edit Partisan trigger] until they figure out to get Harris as POTUS. BUT....
If both sides want to avoid the reeducation camps, blocklists and have this country move forward, why not prove, beyond a doubt that our elections processes work and are above corruption? If we don't, we will have half the country doing the childish "not my president" and #resist crap again and that comes along with all the investigations, impeachments that will surly come down the pike.
If there is nothing wrong, then why stop investigations and litigation that will protect our election integrity? I thought everyone would welcome a chance that Joe won fair and square.

In this case, and all previous elections ever, the onus is on the party making the allegations to prove it with clear evidence. The President isn't just attempting to litigate questionable votes, but he's accusing widespread fraud and perpetuating a myth that the states involved are trying to steal the election. Two very different things. The litigation is pretty much expected. And all of the ones reviewed so far have been rejected and refuted. Once the others are reviewed, and I suspect will be rejected, then the states can proceed with their usual protocols and certify the election results. That's all well and good.

The mudslinging and throwing out accusations of fraud and stealing are uncalled for and encourages his supporters to doubt a legitimate election result. You think that's acceptable? I don't.

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]

And when those suits are revealed to have no merit, will your tribe suck it up and say, "Well, I guess the election WAS fair. Let's move on."?

*raising hand* I know the answer to this one!

 

[Farb]

I find a lot of these allegation no more credible than the Putin/Russia love affair that everyone ran with and are still running with after 2016 and yet we had 4 years of investigation and whaling from people on one side that have refused to believe the results. It happens after every election to an extent.
All credible cases should be investigated so that the rational, normal Americans won't have a sliver of doubt. There will be people that refuse to believe anything other than fraud, just like in 2016. There are extremes on both sides but we should not cater to any of them.

 

[wardorican]

I did say 'credible' acts of election fraud. I think everyone, on both sides would want to make sure they are all legal votes, especially in this election more than any other in our history.
I will say it again: I don't think this will reverse the election. I don't think Trump is going to suddenly win.
I also don't like Trump's rhetoric on this. He should just say "I am going to pursue all my legal options to make sure this was a fair election for the American people, they deserve it." Done. But he can't and no one is surprised.
Just because you don't like the messenger doesn't mean the message should be disregarded.

True.

I just wonder what the message is.

When there are wholesale attempts in invalidate or suspect all mail in voting (yet ignoring mail in voting in Utah, etc), it makes the message questionable too.

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]

Pompeo full clip is slightly less unnerving.

He was telling a joke. It's a bad joke that didn't land told by someone with bad comic timing in an inappropriate venue, but it's still a joke.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

He was telling a joke. It's a bad joke that didn't land told by someone with bad comic timing in an inappropriate venue, but it's still a joke.

That's how I took it as well. It speaks more to the fact that Republicans aren't funny than the election controversy.

 

[coldseat]

I find a lot of these allegation no more credible than the Putin/Russia love affair that everyone ran with and are still running with after 2016 and yet we had 4 years of investigation and whaling from people on one side that have refused to believe the results. It happens after every election to an extent.
All credible cases should be investigated so that the rational, normal Americans won't have a sliver of doubt. There will be people that refuse to believe anything other than fraud, just like in 2016. There are extremes on both sides but we should not cater to any of them.

The "rational , normal Americans " don't have a doubt about the election results.

The transition shouldn't be put on hold while these suspect legal challenges play out. There is no credible evidence of mass fraud, our nation needs to continue moving forward. It's that simple.

 

[Dragon]

I did say 'credible' acts of election fraud. I think everyone, on both sides would want to make sure they are all legal votes, especially in this election more than any other in our history.
I will say it again: I don't think this will reverse the election. I don't think Trump is going to suddenly win.
I also don't like Trump's rhetoric on this. He should just say "I am going to pursue all my legal options to make sure this was a fair election for the American people, they deserve it." Done. But he can't and no one is surprised.
Just because you don't like the messenger doesn't mean the message should be disregarded.

Did you hear Biden or Harris publicly ask their supporters to break election law ?


Trump did and you don't need to take my word for it. Just listen to Trump himself! :




And regarding Russia

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/13/us/politics/trump-russia-clinton-emails.html