The Voting Thread (Procedures, Turnout, Legal Challenges)(Update: Trump to file suit in PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, GA) (4 Viewers)

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    Lapaz

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    There is a lot of push-back from Trump on voting by mail, but most states allow it, and 1/3 allow it without any excuse. His rationale is that it will lead to vast fraud, but of course that isn't his real reason. His real reason is that he thinks it will be worse for conservatives, but studies have shown that states that have instituted much broader voting by mail haven't had any statistical changes in party voting.



    Although, normally voting by mail doesn't affect party votes, I bet it might this year if we have another resurgence of Covid, because I think the right is much more apt to discount the virus than the left. I know that is why Trump is against it.

    Whether you're left or right wing, expanding mail in votes is the right thing to do to reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus, to expand voter participation, and to make it easier for those that do show up to stay distant. It will also allow any people with susceptibilities to remain safer. I think voting by mail could be made extremely secure by having people vote using traditional postal mail, coupled with requiring a confirmation either by phone, email or text. If done by phone, then voters can provide confirmation that can include confirming their form number. If done by email or text, it can include a picture of their form, and then confirmation that that was their form. Rather than staffers individually calling people, this can be automated by having voters call the number, text the number, or email the address provided to them on their form. A website can even be created with a database of those that have voted, and perhaps a link to allow people to confirm their vote was correctly registered. For people without computers, a site can include a means to access the database over the phone with some confirmation information. These types of systems are used extensively by banks and other sites that need security, so I think they are mature enough to use. We could even use such a site for people to confirm their vote on the day of the election.
     


    I'm posting a lot of the ruling.

    Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here. The Trump Presidential Campaign asserts that Pennsylvania’s 2020 election was unfair. But as lawyer Rudolph Giuliani stressed, the Campaign “doesn’t plead fraud. . . .

    [T]his is not a fraud case.” Mot. to Dismiss Hr’g Tr. 118:19–20, 137:18. Instead, it objects that Pennsylvania’s Secretary of State and some counties restricted poll watchers and let voters fix technical defects in their mail-in ballots. It offers nothing more.

    This case is not about whether those claims are true. Rather, the Campaign appeals on a very narrow ground: whether the District Court abused its discretion in not letting the Campaign amend its complaint a second time. It did not.

    Most of the claims in the Second Amended Complaint boil down to issues of state law. But Pennsylvania law is willing to overlook many technical defects. It favors counting votes as long as there is no fraud. Indeed, the Campaign has already litigated and lost many of these issues in state courts.

    The Campaign tries to repackage these state-law claims as unconstitutional discrimination. Yet its allegations are vague and conclusory. It never alleges that anyone treated the Trump campaign or Trump votes worse than it treated the Biden campaign or Biden votes. And federal law does not require poll watchers or specify how they may observe. It also says nothing about curing technical state-law errors in ballots. Each of these defects is fatal, and the proposed Second Amended Complaint does not fix them. So the District Court properly denied leave to amend again.

    Nor does the Campaign deserve an injunction to undo Pennsylvania’s certification of its votes. The Campaign’s claims have no merit. The number of ballots it specifically challenges is far smaller than the roughly 81,000-vote margin of victory. And it never claims fraud or that any votes were cast by illegal voters. Plus, tossing out millions of mail-in ballots would be drastic and unprecedented, disenfranchising a huge swath of the electorate and upsetting all down-ballot races too. That remedy would be grossly disproportionate to the procedural challenges raised. So we deny the motion for an injunction pending appeal.
     
    Sorry about the two part post.. did I forget to post that other post? Or did I post it twice? haha

    EDIT: fixed it.. I guess I just forgot to post that other one....
     
    "Maybe DOJ and FBI are involved"




    President Trump on Sunday indicated that nothing will dissuade him from his belief that he won November's election, even as his lawsuits fall flat and he fails to produce evidence of widespread fraud in the contest President-elect Joe Biden won.

    "It's not like you're going to change my mind. In other words, my mind will not change in six months. There was tremendous cheating here," Trump told Maria Bartiromo on "Sunday Morning Futures" in his first television interview since Election Day.
    Trump spent most of the 45-minute phone call with Bartiromo levying unproven and baseless allegations that letter carriers, Dominion Voting Systems, Republican officials and mail-in ballots were all to blame for his defeat to Biden nearly a month ago.

    The president also questioned the court system, which has thus far rejected his legal team's attempts to overturn the election, citing lack of evidence, and he blasted the FBI for failing to more aggressively look into his unfounded claims.

    Trump showed no indication he was prepared to concede, signaling he was hopeful his case would go to the Supreme Court days after a judge in Pennsylvania dismissed one challenge for lack of standing.

    He has no sense of reality. Same crap he did for the Birther nonsense.

    Trump also expressed disbelief that the courts had rejected the claims of a sitting president.

    "What kind of a court system is this?" Trump asked at one point, explaining that he would like to file "one nice, big, beautiful lawsuit talking about this and many other things with tremendous proof."

    The Trump legal team has filed lawsuits in Michigan, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Arizona and Wisconsin. Many of those challenges have been tossed out for lack of standing or do not apply to enough votes to change the outcome of the election. The president and his team have repeatedly claimed outside the court room that poll watchers were not allowed to observe or that Democratic officials tampered with ballots. But in the courtroom, under penalty of perjury, they have failed to produce evidence of fraud.

    The problem is, in a court, you need actual evidence. Not just "tremendous bullshirt"
     



    He has no sense of reality. Same crap he did for the Birther nonsense.



    The problem is, in a court, you need actual evidence. Not just "tremendous bullshirt"

    But it was big and beautiful! Isn't that enough? Have you no heart? Do you not like big, beautiful things?
     
    This lays it all out so clearly. I really wish the Trumpettes would read this.

    read the comments, but only if you want to be disabused of the notion that Trumpists would ever listen to reason. They read it and viewed it as disloyalty and just repeated the lies about “data dumps” and “more ballots returned than voters”. Tbh there are some there in the comments trying to debunk the lies, but they are called trolls and democrats. 🤦‍♀️
     

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