The official DNC Convention thread (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

So tonight is night 1 of the Democratic convention and we'll hear from John Kasich and Michelle Obama. Thought it would be good to have a central place as the old PDB days.

 

[brandon]

Did @rajncajn say or imply that AOC should be silent?

That's certainly the vibe I got here:

Have you ever been in a business meeting where a person who is not necessarily essential to the meeting tries to control the meeting by constantly interjecting themselves and giving their opinions on matters that they are not necessarily as well versed in as they think they are?

It's very much in the "sit down, be quiet, and let the important people talk" motif that "uppity" describes.

 

[rajncajn]

Hey man, sorry you fell for the bait. That actually wasn't where I was gonna go. I actually expected you to bristle at the word, but when you didn't, I realized that maybe there's an opportunity for learning here.

Rather than draw you into a race argument, I'm actually more wanting to draw your attention to perhaps some of your personal biases you're unaware of. Since this country was founded, people of color, or women, and especially women of color, have been perceived exactly as you described when they demanded a seat at the lunch counter, or at the front of the bus, rather than offer the deference that white people expected of them.

Now that a person like AOC has a seat at the table, she is slandered as unintelligent, or arrogant, or...for lack of better term, "uppity." You won't find many people say it on national TV because it's such a racially-charged word, but everything you described in your complaints about her is, as you admitted, the exact same arguments made against "uppity" women and people of color.

You literally described, verbatim, the racist's argument for why people of color should just be quiet instead of demanding the equal say that they deserve. I don't think it was your intention. But it is what happened. And you confirmed it when you agreed that your description was exactly the same as the textbook definition of "uppity."

It might be important to step back for a second and recognize that either you inherently have a problem with strong women or people of color taking white males to task, or you've been conditioned to think it's a problem by the propaganda machine.

Again, I really and truly am not trying to bash you over the head with the racism stick here. I think there's a real opportunity for growth here, if you are willing to accept it.

Appreciate this and I apologize both for coming across that way & for being quick to bite back.

No, I by no means have any bias towards women that I'm aware of. I grew up in a house full of women. My mother was an accomplished business owner, my stepmom a high school & university instructor with an MBA, a sister who's working on her doctorate in school admin, a SIL who already has her doctorate and just made dean of education at a university and, of course my wife who is a teacher herself & my two daughters, one in college & one in high school. I also work for a highly intelligent, accomplished (Harvard grad) & assertive woman. No, man, I've been SURROUNDED by women who are MUCH smarter than I pretty much all my life, so you'll find no bias in me there. I don't think that I have any bias as far as color is concerned either. I see how what I said may be construed that way, but I don't feel that way towards any other people of color, so I don't think that has anything to do with it either.

 

[bdb13]

That's certainly the vibe I got here:

I don't really read into that as him saying she should be "silenced."

I thought he was just trying to give an example of what it is about her that he finds moronic.

 

[coldseat]

Matt Gaetz is a buffoon and I don't think AOC is.. but that particular aspect of their personality strikes me as fairly similar.

I would compare that aspect of her personality more to Bernie than Gaetz. I think it comes from a completely different place than Gaetz, even if it appears similar.

I understand why it rubs people the wrong way. In the past, it may have rubbed me the wrong way as well.

 

[insidejob]

I don't really read into that as him saying she should be "silenced."

I thought he was just trying to give an example of what it is about her that he finds moronic.

I didn't think he was implying she should be silenced either but there's a plethora of people who do think she should be. Basically any time she says something, whether it be while doing her job, giving an interview, or even just tweeting something, the responses are typically 50% (and that's being generous) people telling her to shut up and go back to waiting tables.

 

[bdb13]

I would compare that aspect of her personality more to Bernie than Gaetz. I think it comes from a completely different place than Gaetz, even if it appears similar.

I understand why it rubs people the wrong way. In the past, it may have rubbed me the wrong way as well.

To me, Bernie just has a more likeable personality than Gaetz or AOC, and people give you more leeway when they like you.

 

[coldseat]

To me, Bernie just has a more likeable personality than Gaetz or AOC, and people give you more leeway when they like you.

That's funny. I always thought that Bernie was very cantankerous, combative and hard to like, even though I personally liked him and supported him. I find it a lot easier to relate to and like AOC personally.

Gatez has always been detestable to me.

 

[bdb13]

That's funny. I always thought that Bernie was very cantankerous, combative and hard to like, even though I personally liked him and supported him. I find it a lot easier to relate to and like AOC personally.

Gatez has always been detestable to me.

No he's definitely cantankerous.. but he's got a charm about him in the way he goes about it LOL.

 

[rajncajn]

I don't know you, so I don't have an opinion as to whether you're racist or not. I don't really have a reason to believe you are just from this interaction alone. But I do believe that you are like many males who are totally dismissive of the opinion and view of a minority woman because you can't relate to their experience and possibly lack the empathy and truly listen to them. It's much easier to be dismissive of an experience you've never had to live than to seriously listen to and consider the effects of something like structural racism on said group of people.

That's cool, I understand where you're coming from & I think that I addressed in in my reply to brandon.

She speaks from a very personal and passionate place. Maybe because I'm Puerto Rican, I can relate to that more easily as an element of cultural identification, I don't know. What I know is that her style, confrontation and passion have never turned me off. I may not agree with every policy she proposes and every stance she takes, but I do very much respect her. Moreover, I do honestly feel that she cares about the people she represents and wants to represent them for the right reasons. That's the type of people I want in government.

Not trying to throw the "I have black friends" argument in, just though this was a cool coincidence. My old boss was Puerto Rican & one of the greatest guys I've ever worked for or with. He was a great mentor to me and taught me a lot about the importance of seeing a customer on a more personal level and it's done a lot for me in my career and really helped me fall in love with what I do. Now for the "I have black friends" part. We have a growing Puerto Rican community where I live & recently had a family move in next door. Really nice people & great kids. You always worry when you're getting new neighbors, but these folks seem like they will fit right in & are happy to be here. I really do think it's kinda cool to have such a diverse community on such a smaller scale. My other neighbor is black. We've been friends as long as I've been here. I watched his son grow to be a man and have a family of his own and now he's watching mine grow up as well. All great people, as are a great many of the people of color that I work with every day and are friends with. I'm sure that I have biases and anyone who says that they don't is probably not being very honest with themselves or mistake that for being called racist as I may have with brandon. But I am aware that I am capable of having biases and I do try to be conscious of that when forming opinions about people.

As for AOC, I respect what she's been able to accomplish, but I just don't respect her style. I think that you can be passionate about your beliefs, but still respectful. You are right that I don't agree with a lot of her politics & that probably does factor into my dislike for her, but I know that's not all of it & I've heard similar views from many of my friends who do agree with her politically. But I can't prove that here, I can only point to Ayo's description.

 

[rajncajn]

Did @rajncajn say or imply that AOC should be silent?

It appears to me, unless I missed something, that he basically (well, literally) called her arrogant.. he just put more detail in there and didn't mention someone from the other side who seems simpler similar..

Very interesting that you said that because I do see similarities. It's just she's way smarter.

 

[bdb13]

Very interesting that you said that because I do see similarities. It's just she's way smarter.

Heh, I live in Gaetz' district and he's just absolutely insufferable.

 

[The moose]

Heh, I live in Gaetz' district and he's just absolutely insufferable.

My God I feel sorry for you at least I don't have him on local news

But I do get the Kennedy crap.

 

[Ayo]

I don’t think she is “uppity” either. I actually liked her response to Jonathan Chait yesterday on twitter. His comment rubbed me the wrong way.
But she handled it better than I did.

It struck me as arrogant and elitist and she seemed to - rightly - push back after he came after her.



It was better than the route I took which I would say was more condescending lol.

 

[insidejob]

I don’t think she is “uppity” either. I actually liked her response to Jonathan Chait yesterday on twitter. His comment rubbed me the wrong way.
But she handled it better than I did.

It struck me as arrogant and elitist and she seemed to - rightly - push back after he came after her.



It was better than the route I took which I would say was more condescending lol.

Hey, I'm a fan of your criticism just as much as hers. When people say things that stupid they deserve to get it from all sides in all ways.

 

[SaintForLife]

"Hey everyone. I'm Joe Biden's husband"


I'm almost starting to feel sorry for Biden.

 

[efil4]

"Hey everyone. I'm Joe Biden's husband"


I'm almost starting to feel sorry for Biden.

then you should be REALLY concerned for Trump

 

[SaintForLife]

then you should be REALLY concerned for Trump

Going by your rules in the Bannon thread, you need to start a new thread because this one isn't about Trump.

 

[insidejob]

Whatever. The "1917 Flu likely ended WWII."

I'll take the guy who makes slip ups over the moron with no understanding of history, the world we live in or the Constitution. Also the guy who won't have some of his closest advisers indicted and incarcerated because they're such bad criminals.