The Joe Biden 2020 tracker thread (6 Viewers)

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    fair enough. better explanation than "ill take that action". The problem i see here is that a certain group seems to throw out the "racist" term with no way of knowing if its true. It waters down the meaning. My argument still stands, people will call random people on this forum racist. Based on what? The way you interpret someones opinion on a subject? its reckless and pathetic. Peoples life and careers are destroyed by labeling someone racist because you dont agree with them. Ive witnessed countless times on this forum posters calling a certain person racist because they lean a certain way politicly. I guess thats the way forums work. Ill still bet the majority on this forum use the term racist ONLY on the forum, not in person. You may be the exception.

    Some people are more sensitive to race and racism. I agree that labeling a particular post is racist is not particularly helpful and can sidetrack the conversation in a less than helpful manner if you can't objectively show how it is racist. The problem of course, is there is a long history of dismissing non-whites and women as stupid pretty much wholesale, so whenever someone labels a woman or minority as stupid, it can bring up a painful association.

    I think if someone tries to label AOC as stupid based on things she says and does not apply the same thing to several other politicians (most obviously Trump), then it's obvious that some sort of double standard, cognitive bias or other type of shifting criteria is at play. Racism could be it. Misogyny is another. But the simplest explanation is standard my team is better than your team tribal mentality.
     
    how dare someone defend them selves being called a racist. those pesky thread derailers..... do you think they should just except being labeled? would that be easier?

    Ummm... why do you think it was only directed at one side of the argument? B/c if it was I would have called out one side of the argument.
     
    Some people are more sensitive to race and racism. I agree that labeling a particular post is racist is not particularly helpful and can sidetrack the conversation in a less than helpful manner if you can't objectively show how it is racist. The problem of course, is there is a long history of dismissing non-whites and women as stupid pretty much wholesale, so whenever someone labels a woman or minority as stupid, it can bring up a painful association.

    I think if someone tries to label AOC as stupid based on things she says and does not apply the same thing to several other politicians (most obviously Trump), then it's obvious that some sort of double standard, cognitive bias or other type of shifting criteria is at play. Racism could be it. Misogyny is another. But the simplest explanation is standard my team is better than your team tribal mentality.

    I get that. Not how my mind works tho. I do not think AOC is smart, but not at all because she’s a woman or a woc or a poc. Some of the smartest people I know are poc woc or women in general. My grandmother is one of them, she was a federal judge. Very sharp.

    Anyhow, some may work that way but I don’t. And I believe in projection. Quite often the one with racism on their mind and their tongue is the actual racist. Projection is real.

    I’m also not on any team. I am anti socialism because I don’t think it can work in practice. It’s wonderful in theory, at least some aspects of it. So if there is a socialism team, I’m def not on that.
     
    Some people are more sensitive to race and racism. I agree that labeling a particular post is racist is not particularly helpful and can sidetrack the conversation in a less than helpful manner if you can't objectively show how it is racist. The problem of course, is there is a long history of dismissing non-whites and women as stupid pretty much wholesale, so whenever someone labels a woman or minority as stupid, it can bring up a painful association.

    I think if someone tries to label AOC as stupid based on things she says and does not apply the same thing to several other politicians (most obviously Trump), then it's obvious that some sort of double standard, cognitive bias or other type of shifting criteria is at play. Racism could be it. Misogyny is another. But the simplest explanation is standard my team is better than your team tribal mentality.

    good post. I can agree with most of what you said. I dont believe people need to adjust their lives and things they say (Non racist comments) to appease a group of people that use the label "racist" as weapon. its the most pathetic response to a conversation your losing. i have not read all the post on this forum, but I have yet to read anyone say they hated a group of people. In my opinion if you can't prove a person to be an actual racist you shouldn't say it.
     
    I get that. Not how my mind works tho. I do not think AOC is smart, but not at all because she’s a woman or a woc or a poc. Some of the smartest people I know are poc woc or women in general. My grandmother is one of them, she was a federal judge. Very sharp.

    Anyhow, some may work that way but I don’t. And I believe in projection. Quite often the one with racism on their mind and their tongue is the actual racist. Projection is real.

    I’m also not on any team. I am anti socialism because I don’t think it can work in practice. It’s wonderful in theory, at least some aspects of it. So if there is a socialism team, I’m def not on that.

    So first of all, no one is color blind. It's impossible. Race is too much a part of the fabric of our society. We are bombarded with various little messages all the time. It's baked into everything. This doesn't mean everyone is a terrible racist. It just means that race gets put into our baseline assumptions about people - just like tall people are considered smarter and more capable, or people with heavy eyelids are considered less trustworthy. Your initial impression is heavily influenced by visual and verbal queues and it gives you an initial impression and your initial instinct is to look for evidence to back it up. Now, a normal, non-jerk person will shed those biases as they get to know an individual. But for the general faceless masses, it exists at a low level.

    A fun test to see how this works is this:

    You can see how your subliminal biases come into play. And again, that doesn't make you or anyone a bad person. It's normal. People who have less inherent biases are those that spend a lot of time with a wide variety of people (races, heights, genders, and so on).

    For the topic at hand -- it's really hard to gauge the intelligence level of someone you don't know and only see on an evening news channel that unless you watch a lot, is probably heavily slanted to give a certain impression.

    If you want to see if you are being fair. First, write out your criteria for determining whether a stranger is smart or not. And it obviously shouldn't be - "this person proposes policies I don't like". Then methodically go through them and see if you apply it evenly, or if you find yourself making excuses for a side or person you want to agree with.
     
    good post. I can agree with most of what you said. I dont believe people need to adjust their lives and things they say (Non racist comments) to appease a group of people that use the label "racist" as weapon. its the most pathetic response to a conversation your losing. i have not read all the post on this forum, but I have yet to read anyone say they hated a group of people. In my opinion if you can't prove a person to be an actual racist you shouldn't say it.

    Do you think that someone has to directly state their racism to be racist?
     
    So first of all, no one is color blind. It's impossible. Race is too much a part of the fabric of our society. We are bombarded with various little messages all the time. It's baked into everything. This doesn't mean everyone is a terrible racist. It just means that race gets put into our baseline assumptions about people - just like tall people are considered smarter and more capable, or people with heavy eyelids are considered less trustworthy. Your initial impression is heavily influenced by visual and verbal queues and it gives you an initial impression and your initial instinct is to look for evidence to back it up. Now, a normal, non-jerk person will shed those biases as they get to know an individual. But for the general faceless masses, it exists at a low level.

    A fun test to see how this works is this:

    You can see how your subliminal biases come into play. And again, that doesn't make you or anyone a bad person. It's normal. People who have less inherent biases are those that spend a lot of time with a wide variety of people (races, heights, genders, and so on).

    For the topic at hand -- it's really hard to gauge the intelligence level of someone you don't know and only see on an evening news channel that unless you watch a lot, is probably heavily slanted to give a certain impression.

    If you want to see if you are being fair. First, write out your criteria for determining whether a stranger is smart or not. And it obviously shouldn't be - "this person proposes policies I don't like". Then methodically go through them and see if you apply it evenly, or if you find yourself making excuses for a side or person you want to agree with.

    It sounds like you are in a very rational, typical UTJ mood.

    Let's see if we can continue on that rational path. I think it is fair to note that AOC was hand selected, kind of like an actor, to play the role of politician. It happens, but the point is she wasn't exactly preparing herself for the position when her brother sent her info in to apply for the role. Most people don't study the kind of issues she would soon be speaking publicly about and think it was obvious she did not either.

    That doesn't make her stupid, it means she was ignorant. But it can certainly make one look stupid.

    Once in office she did not - as Whoopi even suggested - sit back and learn the ropes.

    She jumped into the deep end and not only started speaking about things she did not really understand, she was quick to admonish others. Now we are getting into the area where people might reasonably believe one is not just ignorant, but that the person doesn't have enough sense to know they lack enough knowledge to speak with such authority.

    And she has, no doubt, had some goofy moments.

    I could go on - but I really think there is plenty of reason to give someone the benefit of the doubt that their views on AOC are not driven by race.
     
    how dare someone defend them selves being called a racist. those pesky thread derailers..... do you think they should just except being labeled? would that be easier?
    It sounds like you are in a very rational, typical UTJ mood.

    Let's see if we can continue on that rational path. I think it is fair to note that AOC was hand selected, kind of like an actor, to play the role of politician. It happens, but the point is she wasn't exactly preparing herself for the position when her brother sent her info in to apply for the role. Most people don't study the kind of issues she would soon be speaking publicly about and think it was obvious she did not either.

    That doesn't make her stupid, it means she was ignorant. But it can certainly make one look stupid.

    Once in office she did not - as Whoopi even suggested - sit back and learn the ropes.

    She jumped into the deep end and not only started speaking about things she did not really understand, she was quick to admonish others. Now we are getting into the area where people might reasonably believe one is not just ignorant, but that the person doesn't have enough sense to know they lack enough knowledge to speak with such authority.

    And she has, no doubt, had some goofy moments.

    I could go on - but I really think there is plenty of reason to give someone the benefit of the doubt that their views on AOC are not driven by race.

    Good post.
    And my views on her (or anyone) have zero to do with race or sex, don’t care at all who believes that.
     
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    It sounds like you are in a very rational, typical UTJ mood.

    Let's see if we can continue on that rational path. I think it is fair to note that AOC was hand selected, kind of like an actor, to play the role of politician. It happens, but the point is she wasn't exactly preparing herself for the position when her brother sent her info in to apply for the role. Most people don't study the kind of issues she would soon be speaking publicly about and think it was obvious she did not either.

    That doesn't make her stupid, it means she was ignorant. But it can certainly make one look stupid.

    Once in office she did not - as Whoopi even suggested - sit back and learn the ropes.

    She jumped into the deep end and not only started speaking about things she did not really understand, she was quick to admonish others. Now we are getting into the area where people might reasonably believe one is not just ignorant, but that the person doesn't have enough sense to know they lack enough knowledge to speak with such authority.

    And she has, no doubt, had some goofy moments.

    I could go on - but I really think there is plenty of reason to give someone the benefit of the doubt that their views on AOC are not driven by race.

    Just out of curiosity, what makes you think she wasn't preparing herself when he submitted her info?
     
    When someone puts out a video showing she is terrified and confused by a freaking garbage disposal people are going to say she is stupid. You are not going to stop people from expressing that very reasonable conclusion by screaming that they are "racists." That tactic only makes you look weak and pathetic.
    When someone continually sees another person making endless statements that mirror the talking points and statements bigots make, or their pattern of behavior mirrors that of a misogynist, you are not going to stop people from expressing the very reasonable conclusion by screaming “outrage!” That tactic only makes you look weak and pathetic.

    ...See how that works? In your mind it’s a-ok to take a few handful of examples and draw sweeping conclusions about someone, but it’s not ok for someone to do the same back.

    It’s kind of amazing how many of you continue to whine(from reading the thread, for the better part of an entire day), often in the same breath, about how absurd it is to not be allowed to call Covid the Chinese Virus, going on and on about how much the left are a bunch of sensitive snowflakes because some will get mad when you make tranny jokes, stereotype Muslims, vilify immigrants, bypass substance to make misogynistic comments, cozy up to race theories, or enthusiastically vote for a racist administration...but the moment someone wants to use the ”R” word on you or your comments, suddenly you all rapidly grab for the speed dial to call up the speech police, cry victim, and claim protected class status.

    It would be amusing if not for the fact this nonsense, to go with the complete aversion to substantive discussion, has all but critically poisoned this website.
     
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    Do you think that someone has to directly state their racism to be racist?
    yes especially when you know no racist act that person comitted , do you think there are racist on this forum? actual racist not people who you think are.
     
    Conservatives: Oh, did I trigger you you liberal snowflake

    When someone continually sees another person making endless statements that mirror the talking points and statements bigots make, or their pattern of behavior mirrors that of a misogynist, you are not going to stop people from expressing the very reasonable conclusion by screaming “outrage!” That tactic only makes you look weak and pathetic.

    ...See how that works?

    It’s kind of amazing how many of you continue to whine(from reading the thread, for the better part of an entire day), often in the same breath, about how absurd it is to not be allowed to call Covid the Chinese Virus, going on and on about how much the left are a bunch of sensitive snowflakes becuase some will get mad when you make tranny jokes, stereotype Muslims, vilify immigrants, bypass substance to make misogynistic comments, cozy up to race theories, or enthusiastically vote for a racist administration...but the moment someone wants to use the ”R” word on you or your comments, suddenly you all rapidly grab for the speed dial to call up the speech police, cry victim, and claim protected class status.
    There are very few posters on here that can accuse another poster of bigoted behavior.
    On either side. Bigotry runs deep here. As I’m sure it does on most political forums.
     
    Conservatives: Oh, did I trigger you you liberal snowflake

    When someone continually sees another person making endless statements that mirror the talking points and statements bigots make, or their pattern of behavior mirrors that of a misogynist, you are not going to stop people from expressing the very reasonable conclusion by screaming “outrage!” That tactic only makes you look weak and pathetic.

    ...See how that works? In your mind it’s a-ok to take a few handful of examples and draw sweeping conclusions about someone, but it’s not ok for someone to do the same back.

    It’s kind of amazing how many of you continue to whine(from reading the thread, for the better part of an entire day), often in the same breath, about how absurd it is to not be allowed to call Covid the Chinese Virus, going on and on about how much the left are a bunch of sensitive snowflakes becuase some will get mad when you make tranny jokes, stereotype Muslims, vilify immigrants, bypass substance to make misogynistic comments, cozy up to race theories, or enthusiastically vote for a racist administration...but the moment someone wants to use the ”R” word on you or your comments, suddenly you all rapidly grab for the speed dial to call up the speech police, cry victim, and claim protected class status.

    It would be amusing if not for the fact this nonsense, to go with the complete aversion to substantive discussion, has all but critically poisoned this website.

    Projection is very strong with you. Like a Jedi with the force.
    Who’s crying victim? Who wants to call the speech police? I’ve only seen that from one side here.

    I couldn’t disagree with you more on issues discussed here, and I’m still very glad you have the right to voice your opinions. Same goes for all, no matter if they agree with me or not.
     
    Just out of curiosity, what makes you think she wasn't preparing herself when he submitted her info?

    Primarily based on an interview of her. It wasn't her idea and she indicated she was reluctant, like the thought had never occurred to her. I doubt given all that she was preparing.
     
    When someone continually sees another person making endless statements that mirror the talking points and statements bigots make, or their pattern of behavior mirrors that of a misogynist, you are not going to stop people from expressing the very reasonable conclusion by screaming “outrage!” That tactic only makes you look weak and pathetic.

    ...See how that works? In your mind it’s a-ok to take a few handful of examples and draw sweeping conclusions about someone, but it’s not ok for someone to do the same back.

    It’s kind of amazing how many of you continue to whine(from reading the thread, for the better part of an entire day), often in the same breath, about how absurd it is to not be allowed to call Covid the Chinese Virus, going on and on about how much the left are a bunch of sensitive snowflakes becuase some will get mad when you make tranny jokes, stereotype Muslims, vilify immigrants, bypass substance to make misogynistic comments, cozy up to race theories, or enthusiastically vote for a racist administration...but the moment someone wants to use the ”R” word on you or your comments, suddenly you all rapidly grab for the speed dial to call up the speech police, cry victim, and claim protected class status.

    It would be amusing if not for the fact this nonsense, to go with the complete aversion to substantive discussion, has all but critically poisoned this website.

    Back with another tirade, just like the other ones.
     
    yes especially when you know no racist act that person comitted ,

    Is blackface racist if you don't utter the phrase "white power" while wearing it?

    do you think there are racist on this forum? actual racist not people who you think are.

    There are people on this forum who use terms with racial connotations despite being told that the use of these terms is having a direct negative impact on that race. The only two options is that they are racist or they are comfortable with racism. Neither of those choices are good.
     
    Is blackface racist if you don't utter the phrase "white power" while wearing it?
    terrible point


    There are people on this forum who use terms with racial connotations despite being told that the use of these terms is having a direct negative impact on that race. The only two options is that they are racist or they are comfortable with racism. Neither of those choices are good.
    so yes you think people are racist despite have no concrete evidence. thats the problem
     

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