Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (2 Viewers)

[Brennan77]

Forgive me for posting this given that I'm not a regular participant.

Exclusive: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” Justice Alito writes in an initial majority draft circulated inside the court.

www.politico.com

Read Justice Alito's initial draft abortion opinion which would overturn Roe v. Wade

Read the full 98-page initial draft majority opinion.

www.politico.com

 

[SystemShock]

Again, they focus on this hasn't come from Democrats. It's come from Republican's making it a culture war issue and all of the moderates reacting with their usual fear.

I'm in Julian Castro's district and I don't even remember that, but I guess that had a major impact. Let's just blame tans people for all of our forking problems.

Is it possible to remove emotions from these conversations? For fork's sakes, no one is blaming trans people for anything.

And the focus does come from Dems. The GOP just reacts to it.

 

[samiam5211]

We disagree. When the SC is dealing with monumental cases like this, they should factor in public reaction and discord. ESPECIALLY, when removing constitutional protections from it's citizens. They should be very cognizant of the havoc they wreak, as shown in the Sotomayor dissenting opinion.

They may not be influenced, but until they face that wrath of anger over their opinions and legislative actions to limit their power, we won't really know.

If public opinion is that strong, then we should be able to get a constitutional amendment passed.

That is the way the government was set up to work. It's not the court's fault if the people can't control the legislative branch.

 

[coldseat]

Is it possible to remove emotions from these conversations? For fork's sakes, no one is blaming trans people for anything.

And the focus does come from Dems. The GOP just reacts to it.

No, I'm kind of done with removing emotions from my arguments. I'm pretty angry.

Sure, the GOP just reacts to it. LOL. Come on @SystemShock. Remind me again what all legislation Democrats have been pushing to advance trans people rights? Bathroom bills from 6 years ago. Anything else?

 

[DaveXA]

I may be wrong in my understanding of the comment, but I think what @Maxp is saying, is that the focus on that particular topic and that particular label hurts in the ballot box. I think it would be a more effective strategy to promote individual rights, and not <specific label> rights. So for example, a man marrying another man should not be promoted as a gay right, but an individual right.

One quick example: remember Julian Castro in the 2019 primaries? He was asked if he would support abortion rights for transgender women, and he said yes. Nothing that was said on that day of debates mattered... on the Dem side everyone was either up in arms that Castro didn't have it right who's who in the trans world, or mocked him relentlessly for it; while the GOP used it as propaganda, pointing out the insanity of the Dems' wokeness.

Agreed. I'm a believer in everyone having equal rights, and eventually those limiting of rights can be turned on me. I'd rather everyone be free to decide what works for them as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. Focusing on the broader individual rights would be a more effective strategy than any one specific group.

 

[coldseat]

If public opinion is that strong, then we should be able to get a constitutional amendment passed.

That is the way the government was set up to work. It's not the court's fault if the people can't control the legislative branch.

I agree, but to do that we will need to remove the structural inequities in our elections and federal government that give rural republican voters much more power and representative weight than Democrats voters in urban areas. Because right now government isn't working the way is was set up to work. The same needs to happen in state governments.

 

[DaveXA]

So, a lot of the comments I'm reading are saying that overturning Roe doesn't ban abortion at all, it just send the issue to the states (where it'll be banned)

And that any pregnant woman can still get an abortion if she chooses (and has the means to do so)

That ignores that states are trying to figure out of to stop traveling to an abortion legal state, but that's neither here or there

I wonder how those people would feel if similar laws were made for guns?

No more buying at gun shows, no more gun shops, no online

All gun purchases must be at approved locations which not every state has, and even in the states that do only one location is allowed

None of which says you can't buy and own a gun, none of which infringes on your right to bear arms

Wouldn't that feel like some rights are being taken away?

I'd actually be good with guns treated that way. It would be fun watching states try to fiddle with their gun laws on their own.

 

[Maxp]

Republicans very well could have framed the trans issues for Democrats, but it is still the Democrats fault for allowing their opposition to do so. I don't blame the trans community for the democrats' ineptitude.

 

[samiam5211]

I agree, but to do that we will need to remove the structural inequities in our elections and federal government that give rural republican voters much more power and representative weight than Democrats voters in urban areas. Because right now government isn't working the way is was set up to work. The same needs to happen in state governments.

Oh completely agree that representation in the Senate and especially the electoral college needs to be reconsidered.

That is on us though, not the SCOTUS.

 

[coldseat]

Republicans very well could have framed the trans issues for Democrats, but it is still the Democrats fault for allowing their opposition to do so. I don't blame the trans community for the democrats' ineptitude.

That's one way to look at it. Here's another (probably more accurate) way to look at it.

1.) Private and public institution individually enact diversity and inclusion programs because of general progress in society.

2.) Republicans decide they can't allow that and decide to draw up fear to use it as a culture war issue and blame tans/gay people for grooming and sexualizing our kids, thereby engaging their base.

3.) Democrats look around as ask, "what are you talking about?", while moderates start to fear that Dems are "going to far".

4.) Republican's enact state laws removing civil liberties from tans/gay people.

5.) Dem's complain this is going to far but don't really do anything. Then get blamed moderates for "focusing on tans rights" and forcing it on America, resulting in disastrous effects. Regressive Republican state laws go into effect.

Wash, Rinse and Repeat. The same process for CRT hysteria that came before the trans hysteria.

 

[Nolaswede]

What Does the Bible Really Say About Abortion? - Freedom From Religion Foundation

God Is So Not Pro-Life By Brian Bolton Click here to read the nontract "What Does the Bible Say About Abortion?" A prominent fundamentalist Christian...

ffrf.org

I have never really understood how Catholics believe that God is Pro-Life? Assuming they believe what’s written in the Bible is correct, wouldn’t God be just the opposite?

Just imaging how many children, and fetuses, that were killed in the flooding(Noah’s Ark).

 

[Nolaswede]

That's why I think the Jan 6th commission is really important. It tells us the lengths he went to try and overthrow the government and that the DOJ needs to hold Trump accountable for his action, otherwise we'll see more of these shenanigans from him and possibly others if they think they can get away with what Trump did. Any other country would have hanged him by now.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if he gets elected in '24, I'm leaving the country.

Unfortunately, with this latest decision from the Supreme Court, we will be leaving Louisiana. Just can’t live in a place where our daughter can be raped and it’s nothing she can do about it. Been here for 22 years, and we have lived in several states and countries, and the people here in New Orleans are second to none. We will probably always have a place here, but in the near future (5-10 years) we will bring our family to a place where religion doesn’t dictate our lives!

 

[MT15]

This kind of stuff is already happening. This woman’s doctor refuses to prescribe her normal meds over fear he could get in trouble.

 

[barbar]

What Does the Bible Really Say About Abortion? - Freedom From Religion Foundation

God Is So Not Pro-Life By Brian Bolton Click here to read the nontract "What Does the Bible Say About Abortion?" A prominent fundamentalist Christian...

ffrf.org

I have never really understood how Catholics believe that God is Pro-Life? Assuming they believe what’s written in the Bible is correct, wouldn’t God be just the opposite?

Just imaging how many children, and fetuses, that were killed in the flooding(Noah’s Ark).

I have blown a few people's minds by sending them the trial of the bitter waters text from Numbers. In this passage, it is commanded that a pregnant woman must undergo an abortion by the priest if her husband asserts that the baby isn't his. If the baby and mother survive the process this means they were innocent since they were saved by god. If they die then obviously she was an adulterer and deserved it.


Gee I wonder why they didn't teach us about that growing up in church??? The selective enforcement of the bible is one of the reasons I left religion behind. You can't hate gay people because of what it says on one page but excuse yourself from punishment from what it says on the next. The church picks and chooses what will be evil based on their own self interests and ignores the rest.

 

[superchuck500]

This kind of stuff is already happening. This woman’s doctor refuses to prescribe her normal meds over fear he could get in trouble.

I have seen multiple reports of that.

Also this - based on Missouri's abortion prohibition law, OB's literally have to wait until the mother's life is being actually threatened before treating a condition that the fetus never survives anyway.

 

[MT15]

A certain percentage of these women will die. Needlessly. For no reason. It infuriates me that supposedly Christian men hold the lives of women as disposable. Worth less than nothing.

 

[zztop]

uh...

 

[Incumbent]

uh...

Astonishingly disconnected from reality. Many women and girls actually don't control when a man ejaculates inside of them and legislation must be in place to protect them. In cases where it is consensual, steps to prevent pregnancy can fail and legislation should be in place to protect the interests of those women. In cases where a woman wants to get pregnant, outcomes can deviate tragically from her hopes and dreams, putting her life in jeopardy, and legislation should be in place to save her.

Religious conservative zealotry is a menace to our country.

 

[MT15]

More insanity from Missouri: we could take a simple step to prevent pregnancy from a rape, but we won’t do it.