Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (4 Viewers)

[LovesMusic7360]

Not long ago Kari Lake proclaimed Arizona's abortion law was a great law and wanted it the law of the state.

Now that she has gotten her way, she is lobbying for it to be repealed.

As I have been saying since 2022, the overwhelming vast majority of women aren't going to vote for the man who proudly boasts that he got rid of Roe V. Wade. Nor are those women going to vote for a forced birther politician.

Turns out, republican belief in "pro life" was all just lies to get votes. Who is surprised? I sure am not.

How many forced birthers will do the same about face?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ka ... r-BB1ltx3I.

Arizona Republican Senate candidate Kari Lake is actively lobbying state lawmakers to overturn a 160-year-old law she once supported that bans abortion in almost all cases, a source with knowledge of her efforts told CNN.

 

[Crzycjunx76]

Well, I'd just say that the Chritianity you're talking about isn't the Chritianity I know and live.

Yeah, i have never much seen you as one of the falwell types that would love to see us as a fundamentalist autocracy, the Christian awnser to Iran. We are careening down that road.

 

[Incumbent]

Well, I'd just say that the Chritianity you're talking about isn't the Chritianity I know and live.

The Christianity that I described is the prevailing one that has defined and shaped this nation. Meek, sweet Christianity hasn’t been a firewall along the way. Either it’s been complicit with the ugliness I highlighted, or powerless against it.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I do wonder how many of the rabid anti abortion men out there have a woman in their lives; their wife/S.O. years before they met, an aunt, their own mother who had an abortion that they never knew about

 

[Heathen]

Well, I'd just say that the Chritianity you're talking about isn't the Chritianity I know and live.

I know that was directed at someone else - but I wanted to make a point here.

I respect that. I genuinely do respect people who keep their religion as their own source of truth and don't attempt to dictate others' lives and bodies with it.

I think the problem is that there are a massive number of people who don't believe that way. Who DO take the Bible literally. Who you wouldn't be able to tell from a good friend but if it were proposed to them, would be 'fine' or shrug their shoulders and say 'sure' to Christianity being instituted as the national religion and everything from marriage equality to women's rights to racial equality being eroded. They'd be anywhere on a continuum from supporting it (and justifying it with some vague Bible verse -- to not being for it but ultimately doing nothing to stop it)...because they don't have time to 'dabble in politics' and only care about 'theirs' when it comes down to it. Individualism. What happens on their street.

I can tell you my parents are this way. My parents network are this way. I'd venture to say a majority of people in the town I grew up in on the Coast of Mississippi are this way. And those are 'normal people'. Probably the most common type of people you'll encounter in America. White. Straight. Conservative.

But you bet your arse they'd fall in line to every measure some right wing extremist judges or politicians or presidents throw out for them to consider.

That's terrifying. And it's something we must come to terms with.

 

[CrowFlies]

imo religion has NOTHING to do with this "supreme" Choice.
None.

this is about Control of the population. keeping the women barefoot and preg and
the men footloose and seeding.
why its as tho "women" are the compost pile for men.

why isnt the "supreme" gov "influencing" men to have vasectomies so THEY cannot SEED women
into preg....how about that?
why dump it all on the lil womens. make it alll their fault alllllll their responsibility.

or is making men responsible.. is that too much for the ole consti-prostitution....

 

[DaveXA]

Yeah, i have never much seen you as one of the falwell types that would love to see us as a fundamentalist autocracy, the Christian awnser to Iran. We are careening down that road.

Falwell is an idiot, lol. So are the rest like him.

 

[DaveXA]

The Christianity that I described is the prevailing one that has defined and shaped this nation. Meek, sweet Christianity hasn’t been a firewall along the way. Either it’s been complicit with the ugliness I highlighted, or powerless against it.

Certainly not complicit. Powerless to influence the politicized version, yeah.

 

[DaveXA]

I know that was directed at someone else - but I wanted to make a point here.

I respect that. I genuinely do respect people who keep their religion as their own source of truth and don't attempt to dictate others' lives and bodies with it.

I think the problem is that there are a massive number of people who don't believe that way. Who DO take the Bible literally. Who you wouldn't be able to tell from a good friend but if it were proposed to them, would be 'fine' or shrug their shoulders and say 'sure' to Christianity being instituted as the national religion and everything from marriage equality to women's rights to racial equality being eroded. They'd be anywhere on a continuum from supporting it (and justifying it with some vague Bible verse -- to not being for it but ultimately doing nothing to stop it)...because they don't have time to 'dabble in politics' and only care about 'theirs' when it comes down to it. Individualism. What happens on their street.

I can tell you my parents are this way. My parents network are this way. I'd venture to say a majority of people in the town I grew up in on the Coast of Mississippi are this way. And those are 'normal people'. Probably the most common type of people you'll encounter in America. White. Straight. Conservative.

But you bet your arse they'd fall in line to every measure some right wing extremist judges or politicians or presidents throw out for them to consider.

That's terrifying. And it's something we must come to terms with.

Understood, and fair points.

 

[Incumbent]

Certainly not complicit. Powerless to influence the politicized version, yeah.

Comes down to how we make those distinctions, of course, but there are a lot of “kind” Christians perpetuating bigotry against the LGBT community (out of “love”) and maintaining the misogynistic inferiority of women as they believe their God intended. Both are pretty well established in the belief system as to be normalized for a lot of worshippers. Both are counter to the higher minded ideals we like to believe are intrinsic to what it’s claimed America aspires to.

 

[MT15]

States have been writing laws with no exceptions for rape or incest. Their exceptions for “life of the mother” are worded so strictly that physicians hesitate, fearful they will be prosecuted and sent to jail if some prosecutor decides to second guess their medical judgement after the fact. For instance some laws say death must be imminent.

Do any of you want the life of someone you love in the hands of a doctor who has to try to weigh their life against their patient’s life?

Does sepsis consist of a life-threatening condition? Well, it used to be the number one cause of death from childbirth. Lately, early intervention, which sometimes sacrifices the fetus, has lessened the mortality. Now, with new laws in effect, docs will not intervene. More women will die, without the chance to make their own medical decision in these cases.

I read some of you trying to reassure yourselves about exceptions for the life of the woman. It is an illusion. The monsters behind this ruling and these laws don’t care about women’s lives one bit. They. Do. Not. Care. They also don’t care about infants and children. If they did, the US wouldn’t rank with third world countries for maternal/infant mortality.

I don’t see how any woman with the means and of childbearing age can afford to live in one of these states. When the courts and the states have made it so clear that you are nothing to them. Less than nothing.

 

[MT15]

Just in case you don’t believe me that these people hate women:

 

[DaveXA]

Comes down to how we make those distinctions, of course, but there are a lot of “kind” Christians perpetuating bigotry against the LGBT community (out of “love”) and maintaining the misogynistic inferiority of women as they believe their God intended. Both are pretty well established in the belief system as to be normalized for a lot of worshippers. Both are counter to the higher minded ideals we like to believe are intrinsic to what it’s claimed America aspires to.

Understood, but Christians aren't a monolithic group any more than a lot of other groups are.

 

[Incumbent]

Understood, but Christians aren't a monolithic group any more than a lot of other groups are.

It might not make sense to you but I’m not considering Christians as a monolith - not even interested in dwelling on that - but rather recognizing the conflict that exists between Christianity and liberty.

Or expressed in the same fashion as something I’ve heard throughout my life; love the Christian, hate the Christianity.

I’ll spend the rest of my life pushing back against the overreach of Christianity.

 

[Lapaz]

Not sure why you quoted my post.

I was providing examples of the problems that the right will have now that they have caught the dog.

 

[Incumbent]

I know that was directed at someone else - but I wanted to make a point here.

I respect that. I genuinely do respect people who keep their religion as their own source of truth and don't attempt to dictate others' lives and bodies with it.

I think the problem is that there are a massive number of people who don't believe that way. Who DO take the Bible literally. Who you wouldn't be able to tell from a good friend but if it were proposed to them, would be 'fine' or shrug their shoulders and say 'sure' to Christianity being instituted as the national religion and everything from marriage equality to women's rights to racial equality being eroded. They'd be anywhere on a continuum from supporting it (and justifying it with some vague Bible verse -- to not being for it but ultimately doing nothing to stop it)...because they don't have time to 'dabble in politics' and only care about 'theirs' when it comes down to it. Individualism. What happens on their street.

I can tell you my parents are this way. My parents network are this way. I'd venture to say a majority of people in the town I grew up in on the Coast of Mississippi are this way. And those are 'normal people'. Probably the most common type of people you'll encounter in America. White. Straight. Conservative.

But you bet your arse they'd fall in line to every measure some right wing extremist judges or politicians or presidents throw out for them to consider.

That's terrifying. And it's something we must come to terms with.

Agree completely.

 

[SystemShock]

imo religion has NOTHING to do with this "supreme" Choice.
None.

It may be your opinion, but the facts contradict your opinion.

Jeremiah 1:5.

Keeping women barefoot and pregnant, treating them as property, very biblical too.

 

[MT15]

It might not make sense to you but I’m not considering Christians as a monolith - not even interested in dwelling on that - but rather recognizing the conflict that exists between Christianity and liberty.

Or expressed in the same fashion of something I’ve heard throughout my life; love the Christian, hate the Christianity.

I’ll spend the rest of my life pushing back against the overreach of Christianity.

When I posted some videos of fascist preachers preaching for execution of LBGTQIA folks, I got an indignant PM from a member here saying these people don’t really represent Christianity and he had never heard of them so it had to be just one or two. I replied that they certainly don’t as he and I understand Christianity, but they do identify as Christian and claim their beliefs are consistent with the Bible. I continued that more mainstream Christians have a duty to be the loudest voices condemning and shaming them, but we don’t really see that happening. He claims his pastor does preach against them, maybe forgetting he just told me he had never heard of them or what they preach.

Disclaimer: this was definitely not Dave, lol

 

[Incumbent]

When I posted some videos of fascist preachers preaching for execution of LBGTQIA folks, I got an indignant PM from a member here saying these people don’t really represent Christianity and he had never heard of them so it had to be just one or two. I replied that they certainly don’t as he and I understand Christianity, but they do identify as Christian and claim their beliefs are consistent with the Bible. I continued that more mainstream Christians have a duty to be the loudest voices condemning and shaming them, but we don’t really see that happening. He claims his pastor does preach against them, maybe forgetting he just told me he had never heard of them or what they preach.

Disclaimer: this was definitely not Dave, lol

The last church I attended, several years ago now, was an open and affirming Presbyterian congregation. The pastor is an outspoken community leader on poverty and other social issues, they open the church and church grounds to the homeless, run a food pantry, they are providing sanctuary to a mother and her son who fled Guatemala to escape violence that claimed the lives of their family members, and the associate pastor was openly lesbian and finally got to be ordained by the governing organization shortly before she retired.

That church is my benchmark for what it means to be Christ-like. Short of that amounts to the continuum Heathen mentioned.

The bigotry you described isn’t nearly as uncommon as we might want to believe and is often just dressed up a lot prettier to get a pass.