Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (3 Viewers)

[LovesMusic7360]

Not long ago Kari Lake proclaimed Arizona's abortion law was a great law and wanted it the law of the state.

Now that she has gotten her way, she is lobbying for it to be repealed.

As I have been saying since 2022, the overwhelming vast majority of women aren't going to vote for the man who proudly boasts that he got rid of Roe V. Wade. Nor are those women going to vote for a forced birther politician.

Turns out, republican belief in "pro life" was all just lies to get votes. Who is surprised? I sure am not.

How many forced birthers will do the same about face?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ka ... r-BB1ltx3I.

Arizona Republican Senate candidate Kari Lake is actively lobbying state lawmakers to overturn a 160-year-old law she once supported that bans abortion in almost all cases, a source with knowledge of her efforts told CNN.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Republican Florida State Representative David Borrero has introduced a bill to ban abortions in the state from the moment of "fertilization" with no exceptions for rape or incest. An exception exists in the bill to save the life of the mother, but recent court rulings in Texas against individuals like Kate Cox, who had to flee the state to receive lifesaving healthcare despite her doctor stating an abortion was necessary, have proven that life of the mother exceptions are a farce.

The measure, H.B. 1519, states that a qualifying medical emergency would be “an emergent physical condition in which an abortion is necessary to preserve the life of a pregnant woman whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself.”

Like anti-abortion measures in Texas and other states, the Florida bill doesn't target women receiving abortions, but rather seeks to prevent abortion by criminalizing the procedure itself. The bill classifies “performing or attempting to perform an abortion" as a third-degree felony. Doctors who perform abortions could face up to 10 years in jail, up to $100,000 in fines, or both.

The language banning abortion at "fertilization" would outlaw abortion in cases of non-viable pregnancy, miscarriage, and most notably ectopic pregnancy, which is a highly fatal condition. It is also a stepping stone to banning contraception. Republicans have repeatedly falsely claimed in court, such as in the Hobby Lobby case, that IUD's and other contraception that prevent fertilization are forms of abortion...........

MSN

 

[MT15]

their daddies telling them to...

Well, not in Dave’s case, that’s for sure, lol

 

[Optimus Prime]

That still leaves my question about "why" unanswered. Do you know what it is about Trump that they connect with?

I imagine for many of the same reasons anyone does

Some people love that whole macho, alpha dog persona (while ignoring how thin skinned and petty he is)

Anti rules and establishment who cares little for past conventions or decorum

Young people have been told "because I said so" and "Because that's the way it is" for most of their lives. They like when someone says, "fork that, I'll do what I want and if you don't like it, fork you"

Anti PC now anti - 'woke' we've had several posters on the old PDB who said during the rise of Trump it was like someone flipped a switch in their kids friends. Kids they knew for years and watched grow up were now saying things they thought they never would have

 

[coldseat]

I imagine for many of the same reasons anyone does

Some people love that whole macho, alpha dog persona (while ignoring how thin skinned and petty he is)

Anti rules and establishment who cares little for past conventions or decorum

Young people have been told "because I said so" and "Because that's the way it is" for most of their lives. They like when someone says, "fork that, I'll do what I want and if you don't like it, fork you"

Anti PC now anti - 'woke' we've had several posters on the old PDB who said during the rise of Trump it was like someone flipped a switch in their kids friends. Kids they knew for years and watched grow up were now saying things they thought they never would have

That's really depressing. Trump (of all people) rekindling an affinity for bigotry and bringing it back into our cultural zeitgeist to were now young adults have gotten swept up in it. I had always assumed that things would get better as younger generations got older, but I guess not. We seemed to be stuck in this infinite loop where we continue to turn back to ideas and beliefs that had long been proven to be horrible for our society.

 

[Optimus Prime]

That's really depressing. Trump (of all people) rekindling an affinity for bigotry and bringing it back into our cultural zeitgeist to were now young adults have gotten swept up in it. I had always assumed that things would get better as younger generations got older, but I guess not. We seemed to be stuck in this infinite loop where we continue to turn back to ideas and beliefs that had long been proven to be horrible for our society.

agreed

people like to say that bigotry, racism, xenophobia, sexism, homo/transphobia etc.are issues for the older generations and will literally die off

That's a naive notion.

Yes, generally speaking in very broad terms today's young people (however you want to describe 'young') are probably more tolerant of everything than any previous generation of young people

But there were a lot of young people at Charlottesville, there are a lot of young people at Trump rallies, young people make up a sizable portion of Ben Shapiro's Andrew Tate's, Candace Owens' and other right wing social media stars' audience

Trump absolutely turbo charged this, but he didn't create it.

People have been saying "all the 'isms' and 'phobias' are for older folk and younger generations won't have it" for decades

 

[DaveXA]

their daddies telling them to...

Nah, I can't stand Trump, yet my 2 boys seem to like him. Well, one does and the other merely tolerates him. They get it from their friends at school I guess. They had a young Republicans group when they were in HS when Trump won the 2016 election.

 

[DaveXA]

That still leaves my question about "why" unanswered. Do you know what it is about Trump that they connect with?

I do think they identify with the conservative values like I do to some degree. They agree with building a wall and think the government is too powerful and they like Trump's aggressive personality.

It's a lot of shallow stuff, but it does appeal to them for whatever reason.

 

[DaveXA]

That's really depressing. Trump (of all people) rekindling an affinity for bigotry and bringing it back into our cultural zeitgeist to were now young adults have gotten swept up in it. I had always assumed that things would get better as younger generations got older, but I guess not. We seemed to be stuck in this infinite loop where we continue to turn back to ideas and beliefs that had long been proven to be horrible for our society.

It's human nature. We'll never escape it fully.

 

[MT15]

The ordinary people on the grand jury decline to indict the woman in Ohio who was sent home from the hospital to continue her miscarriage.

 

[DaveXA]

The ordinary people on the grand jury decline to indict the woman in Ohio who was sent home from the hospital to continue her miscarriage.

Good.

 

[LA - L.A.]

When you're standing in a black church, explicitly discussing black issues, you know what you aren't doing? A damn thing as far as white people and women are concerned.

You only get so many chances to engage your voters. I get that the minority vote is a crucial bloc for a Democrat, but it's not nearly as large as the female demographic.

The female demographic is not a monolith. The female demographic is highly motivated by more than just abortion and general women's rights. It's a mistake to think the only way to appeal to them is on the issue of abortion.

Some females are actually ambivalent on abortion rights or are okay with abortion restrictions. In fact, a lot of the front line activists that have and continue to push for a complete ban on abortion are women.

People, campaigns and elections don't fit as tidily into exclusive boxes as some seem to think they do.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Why is this? What exactly is Trump's message to young people that is going to get them to turn out for him?

White hetersosexual male Christian fascism, though they don't phrase it that way.

There is a substantial amount of young people that are all in on White heterosexual male Christian fascism which includes a shocking amount of young women, and they are highly motivated to vote for Trump to get it.


Polling shows this and I have way too much anecdotal evidence from within my own extended family. As a white heterosexual male it's shocking and appalling, but the threat is very real. Someone posted an article in another thread today that made the argument that the most hungry group decides elections. The group that wants white heterosexual male Christian fascism are beyond hungry, they are rabidly ravenous.

I think whoever wins the youth vote in this election wins the election, just like in 2020. Biden is struggling to connect with those who were 14 to 17 years old in the last election. A substantial number of those were raised in the cult of Trump/MAGA and are fully indoctrinated. They will be voting.

 

[MT15]

This is happening every single day to women in states that have banned abortion health care. Every damn day. This woman’s fetus was missing an X chromosome, and that placed her health at risk of serious complications, and there was 99% chance the fetus would die anyway. The doctors weren’t allowed to even recommend she have an abortion. Bolding is mine. Every person deserves the right to make their own healthcare decisions.

“I deserve better, and so does everybody else,” she said. “We can’t stop things from happening in pregnancy. That’s why we have modern medicine, to help guide us and protect the things we do have control over. So if we can’t stop those horrible things from happening … why make it even worse by making the worst experience someone has to go through — learning that they will not give birth to a happy, healthy baby — why do we make that even worse by saying, ‘We don’t value your life enough to try to save it or prevent something bad from happening to you in the meantime?’”

Her fetus had 1% chance of survival. Idaho's ban forced her to travel for an abortion. - Idaho Capital Sun

An Idaho woman had to travel to Oregon to terminate a pregnancy that would jeopardize her health for a 1 percent chance of live birth.

idahocapitalsun.com

 

[Taurus]

The female demographic is not a monolith. The female demographic is highly motivated by more than just abortion and general women's rights. It's a mistake to think the only way to appeal to them is on the issue of abortion.

Some females are actually ambivalent on abortion rights or are okay with abortion restrictions. In fact, a lot of the front line activists that have and continue to push for a complete ban on abortion are women.

People, campaigns and elections don't fit as tidily into exclusive boxes as some seem to think they do.

Have you seen the results of elections on abortion rights?

Women may not be a 100% monolithic bloc on this but it's close. This issue motivates people.

 

[MT15]

Have you seen the results of elections on abortion rights?

Women may not be a 100% monolithic bloc on this but it's close. This issue motivates people.

Yes it does. The cruelty of the abortion bans, the utter disregard for women’s health and lives, the willingness to inflict emotional and physical trauma - all of that makes a big impression on a person.

Women are abandoning the R party.

 

[Optimus Prime]

The first time Carol Whitmore ever had sex, she got pregnant.

It was 1973, and Whitmore was a teenager. Whitmore’s parents were in and out of trouble with the police, Whitmore said. When they told Whitmore they would help her raise the child, she thought, nope.

Instead, Whitmore got an abortion. That same year, the US supreme court legalized abortion nationwide in Roe v Wade.


“I made that choice myself, and to this day, I don’t regret it,” Whitmore told the Guardian. A half-century later, Whitmore is still staunchly supportive of abortion rights. She’s recently taken to collecting petitions in support of a Florida ballot measure to enshrine abortion rights in the state constitution.

Whitmore is also a deeply committed Republican, who has held multiple positions in Florida local government. For her, abortion rights are part and parcel of her Republican worldview.

“Do you want more government overreach to tell us how to take care of ourselves?” Whitmore said. She’s not the only conservative who feels this way, she said: “Everybody I talked to says: ‘Well, we aren’t coming out publicly, but we are definitely going to sign that petition, we are definitely going to vote for that amendment to be passed.’”

In the year and a half since the US supreme court overturned Roe in June 2022, Republicans have floundered over how to handle abortion. The issue is widely thought to have cost them the promised “red wave” in the 2022 midterms, as well as control of the Virginia state legislature in 2023. Abortion rights supporters have triumphed on every abortion-related ballot measure since Roe’s demise, including in states that are traditionally believed to be conservative strongholds like Kansas, Kentucky and, most recently, Ohio.

Experts still have questions about the driving forces behind these victories. Was it a surge in Democratic turnout? Or Republicans breaking with their party platform on abortion? And will abortion convince Republicans to leave the GOP behind entirely?

The outcome of the 2024 elections, when roughly a dozen states may vote on abortion referendums, could hinge on the answers.


“It may be in the narrowest sense possible to win with only Democrats, but that’s not even on our radar,” Jodi Liggett, the senior adviser for Reproductive Freedom for All Arizona, said late last year. Liggett’s organization is championing a proposal for a 2024 abortion-related ballot measure in Arizona. “I think if anything, you’re for sure gonna need independents,” she said. “And we think people actually agree across parties, on the pure issue of who should be deciding: physicians, medical professionals and families, not politicians.”

Democrats, who once avoided the issue of abortion in election campaigns, are now banking on the issue to amplify anger and turnout overall. Yet in interviews with eight Republican or formerly Republican women who support abortion rights, hailing from six states across the country, a complex portrait emerged, suggestingRepublicans might not be the silver bullet that Democrats are hoping for in November.….

Many Republicans support abortion. Are they switching parties because of it?

GOP leadership has floundered on the issue, and members have conflicting answers on party loyalty

www.theguardian.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

WASHINGTON (AP) — In a new twist to the fight over abortion access, congressional Republicans are trying to block a Biden administration spending rule that they say will cut off millions of dollars to anti-abortion counseling centers.

The rule would prohibit states from sending federal funds earmarked for needy Americans to so-called “crisis pregnancy centers,” which counsel against abortions.

At stake are millions of dollars in federal funds that currently flow to the organizations through the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program, a block grant program created in 1996 to give cash assistance to poor children and prevent out-of-wedlock pregnancies.

“Programs that only or primarily provide pregnancy counseling to women only after they become pregnant likely do not meet the ... standard,” the Health and Human Services agency said in its rule proposal released late last year.

More than 7,000 comments have been submitted on the proposed rule, which includes a series of restrictions on how states would be able to spend TANF dollars.

The proposal limiting funds for anti-abortion counseling centers is the Biden administration’s latest attempt to introduce federal policies that expand abortion access. Conservative states, meanwhile, have severely restricted the care since the U.S. Supreme Court stripped women of their federal right to an abortion in 2022.

Congressional Republicans this week introduced legislation that would block the Health and Human Services Agency from restricting the funds from the centers. The bill has no chance of becoming law this year.

“Pregnancy centers are an important and vital alternative for expectant mothers,” Republican Rep. Darin LaHood of Illinois said Thursday during a House Ways and Means Committee hearing to mark up the legislation.

The anti-abortion counseling centers have become an increasingly popular way for conservatives to sermonize against abortions, with an Associated Press investigation last year finding that states have been sending more and more money to the programs over the last decade.

More than a dozen states have given the centers roughly $500 million in taxpayer dollars since 2010. Last year, Pennsylvania’s Democratic governor cut funding for all centers from the state budget.……

Republicans try to block Biden administration plan to cut money for anti-abortion counseling centers

In a new twist in the abortion access fight, congressional Republicans are trying to block a Biden administration spending rule that they say will cut off millions of dollars to anti-abortion counseling centers.

apnews.com

 

[V Chip]

That still leaves my question about "why" unanswered. Do you know what it is about Trump that they connect with?

A lot of it has to do with social media that they consume. A lot of younger kids watch a lot of TikTok and Twitch and other social media that give voice to more extreme beliefs. A lot of young boys consume misogynistic right-wing content -- this has been talked about for 5-7 years. And now even left-wing ideas are reaching broader audiences due to amplification on these social media sites -- the Osama bin Laden letter to America for one, and the "Biden commits genocide and leftists can't vote for him" because of the Israel/Hamas conflict are others. Young minds are very susceptible to mass movements in their media (not even political -- young people have become swept up in pop music crazes and fads forever as an example) and it even extends to older folks lately as well.