Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (4 Viewers)

[LovesMusic7360]

Not long ago Kari Lake proclaimed Arizona's abortion law was a great law and wanted it the law of the state.

Now that she has gotten her way, she is lobbying for it to be repealed.

As I have been saying since 2022, the overwhelming vast majority of women aren't going to vote for the man who proudly boasts that he got rid of Roe V. Wade. Nor are those women going to vote for a forced birther politician.

Turns out, republican belief in "pro life" was all just lies to get votes. Who is surprised? I sure am not.

How many forced birthers will do the same about face?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ka ... r-BB1ltx3I.

Arizona Republican Senate candidate Kari Lake is actively lobbying state lawmakers to overturn a 160-year-old law she once supported that bans abortion in almost all cases, a source with knowledge of her efforts told CNN.

 

[bdb13]

I consider myself agnostic and I'd say it's defined for me as a lack of faith or lack of belief in anything in particular.

I give Christianity, Greek gods, scientology, etc all about the same low probability of being accurate.

 

[Farb]

Worship of self? What does that entail? How do you define that? Just being conceited?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/self-idolatry
: extravagant admiration for or devotion to oneself : SELF-WORSHIP

The belief that you are a superior and enlightened being. I think the modern rage of presentism is a reflection of this. Oh, and also the rage of tying ones self identity to their sexual fetishes and sexuality. Maybe also the belief that your personal feelings are sway on the outside world and reality could be added.,

 

[Farb]

Why do you keep asking these same inane questions over and over.

The standard is simple. Those "protected classes" have been discriminated against so much in this country throughout it's history, that they require special protections in law so that they can enjoy the same freedoms everybody else enjoys without any protections.

This didn't just originate out of thin air to oppress poor white men. There's a whole 250 year history behind it.

I understand why there was a 'need' to create the protected classes, I just don't agree with the end result.
Is there a time or measure that will be used to eliminate a protected class or is it once you are protected, you are always protected? For an example, is there a freedom that would be denied if the protect classification went away, I would say no, so why is the government elevating one particular class above another? Do you not think that is racist or bigoted on it's face?

 

[Farb]

It almost looks like a crap against the wall approach at this point.


You do understand that protected classes were created because white so-called Christians kept finding ways to use their religious beliefs as justification to discriminate against people based on their religion, their race, and their sex. Even now, you refuse to allow people to have their own religious beliefs and freely practice those religious beliefs because they differ from your own.

Yes, I do understand that, that is why I said I understand why these were created, I just disagree with the way they were created or the duration of these classes.

Can you give me an example of how 'I' refuse to allow people to have their own religious beliefs and freely practice those religious beliefs because they differ from my own?

 

[Farb]

Self-awareness, you have none. You have never shown how an being an atheist or an agnostic is faith-based. You’ve never even tried. You just spew crap over and over saying the same things, and pretend they are true. Which is itself a propaganda technique.

Yes, MT, everything you disagree with brainwashed propaganda and everyone who thinks different than you wants (insert identity class) to die.

Atheists handle a person of faith much like the radical Christians you guys love to lament would handle a witch in Salem in the late 1600s. One of the main things that is used to debate me on here from several atheists are my Christian faith and by establishing that, my points are dismissed as the quackery of the 'sky spaghetti monster god'. Much like a religious zealot would do, but I know that is lost on you and I am just influenced by (insert new lefty target....maybe Elon today, who knows.)

 

[Farb]

As coldseat said, it's about historical discrimination. Your "all men created equal" argument is clearly bullshirt, given the legality and prevalence of slavery when that was written.

Edit: I was clearly exhausted when I posted this because it's not like me to ignore the fact that you attributed "all men are created equal" to the Constitution, even though it is clearly in the Declaration of Independence.

Yes, I have heard that before. Since slavery was around and legal during this time, all ideas and values must be thrown out, correct? Again, we know so much more than all those racist hicks that lived before us!

Does it matter that during that time when slavery was prevalent around the world that the west was the first actual fight and die to make it illegal? Can you tell another civilization/country that did it? Or does that not matter because slavery existed at all, because if we were alive back then, we would have knows that slavery was wrong just like we would have known that washing hands before medical exams was the right thing to do. Again, you are arguing from the truly self entitled position of presentism and it rarely holds up.

 

[SystemShock]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/self-idolatry
: extravagant admiration for or devotion to oneself : SELF-WORSHIP

The belief that you are a superior and enlightened being. I think the modern rage of presentism is a reflection of this. Oh, and also the rage of tying ones self identity to their sexual fetishes and sexuality. Maybe also the belief that your personal feelings are sway on the outside world and reality could be added.,

Well, I am a superior and enlightened being, but I don't worship myself, I let people do the worshipping.

What's the modern rage of presentism?

 

[Farb]

I consider myself agnostic and I'd say it's defined for me as a lack of faith or lack of belief in anything in particular.

I give Christianity, Greek gods, scientology, etc all about the same low probability of being accurate.

I did at one time as well. Not a wrong take but do you consider those that practice those other faiths to be less or even bad? I don't think you do, just like I don't think that those that don't believe are bad or less, like I said, I was in that number as well. I do hope that you will find something or see something that restores or establishes your faith or belief in God.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

I understand why there was a 'need' to create the protected classes, I just don't agree with the end result.
Is there a time or measure that will be used to eliminate a protected class or is it once you are protected, you are always protected? For an example, is there a freedom that would be denied if the protect classification went away, I would say no, so why is the government elevating one particular class above another? Do you not think that is racist or bigoted on it's face?

It'll end when discrimination for those in the protected class become an exception instead of the norm. But as of right now, unless you live under a rock or are just in denial, 2022 isn't it, and i seriously doubt it'll be anytime soon. You can't stop bigotry but you can quell it to some extent, but the worse offenders will always find ways around it. But there is nothing wrong with those being call out on it. I know you stongly believe if we just "ignore" it, it'll go away, but thats just a pipe dream, and i have some ocean front property in Arizona i want to sell you..

 

[coldseat]

I understand why there was a 'need' to create the protected classes, I just don't agree with the end result.
Is there a time or measure that will be used to eliminate a protected class or is it once you are protected, you are always protected?

I don't know, but to outlaw protected classes you'd have to pass another amendment to nullify the 14th amendment. That doesn't seem likely to me any time soon. But I think a better question is why protected classes bother you and other conservatives so much? Being part of a protected class doesn't give you more rights than people who aren't part of a protected class, it just gives you equal rights (for reasons I've already stated). That isn't something to get up in arms about unless you actively want to discriminate against people that are part of a protected class.

For an example, is there a freedom that would be denied if the protect classification went away,

Yes, there are several examples of it in the "All Things Racist Thread".

I would say no, so why is the government elevating one particular class above another?

It's not "elevating", no matter how many times you repeat it. It's making things equal for those in the protected class.

Do you not think that is racist or bigoted on it's face?

No, not at all.

 

[bdb13]

I did at one time as well. Not a wrong take but do you consider those that practice those other faiths to be less or even bad? I don't think you do, just like I don't think that those that don't believe are bad or less, like I said, I was in that number as well. I do hope that you will find something or see something that restores or establishes your faith or belief in God.

I think I find it more difficult now to understand or rationalize how people - especially ones around my own age - can believe in and center their lives around things that I'm all but certain are little more than mythology.

I would say it colors how I view people and the opinions they offer but I'm polite regardless and respect that an individual has the right to believe whatever they want to believe in.

 

[Taurus]

I don't know, but to outlaw protected classes you'd have to pass another amendment to nullify the 14th amendment. That doesn't seem likely to me any time soon. But I think a better question is why protected classes bother you and other conservatives so much? Being part of a protected class doesn't give you more rights than people who aren't part of a protected class, it just gives you equal rights (for reasons I've already stated). That isn't something to get up in arms about unless you actively want to discriminate against people that are part of a protected class.



Yes, there are several examples of it in the "All Things Racist Thread".



It's not "elevating", no matter how many times you repeat it. It's making things equal for those in the protected class.



No, not at all.

It's like he doesn't understand that a soul food restaurant can't refuse to serve me because I'm white.

 

[MT15]

Yes, MT, everything you disagree with brainwashed propaganda and everyone who thinks different than you wants (insert identity class) to die.

Atheists handle a person of faith much like the radical Christians you guys love to lament would handle a witch in Salem in the late 1600s. One of the main things that is used to debate me on here from several atheists are my Christian faith and by establishing that, my points are dismissed as the quackery of the 'sky spaghetti monster god'. Much like a religious zealot would do, but I know that is lost on you and I am just influenced by (insert new lefty target....maybe Elon today, who knows.)

You’re going to have to cite examples of atheists banding together to burn Christians. This is either complete hyperbole or another example of you claiming victim status.

When someone’s religious faith is used to justify denying people their rights, their freedom and proper medical care, yes, people will get pretty cranky and tend to see people of that particular religious faith as a direct threat. You have expressed your desire to see your religious beliefs codified into law, have you not? Your religious beliefs are, IMO, hostile to the rights of some people in this country. Do you deny this? If you had your way, would the LBGTQ community enjoy equal rights as you? Would women enjoy accessibility to life-saving medical care? Would trans people have rights?

Yet, here you seem to think you are the victim.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Yes, I have heard that before. Since slavery was around and legal during this time, all ideas and values must be thrown out, correct? Again, we know so much more than all those racist hicks that lived before us!

That's not what I said at all and you are being a dishonest interlocutor. All I said was that your use of the Declaration of Independence (not the Constitution)'s phrase "all men are created equal" as a way to question the 14th amendment is ludicrous, given that it was written at a time when all men were not being treated as equals.

Does it matter that during that time when slavery was prevalent around the world that the west was the first actual fight and die to make it illegal? Can you tell another civilization/country that did it? Or does that not matter because slavery existed at all, because if we were alive back then, we would have knows that slavery was wrong just like we would have known that washing hands before medical exams was the right thing to do.

There were people at the time who knew it was wrong. Why is it such a leap to think we wouldn't have known if were living during that time period?

Again, you are arguing from the truly self entitled position of presentism and it rarely holds up.

My statement was not an argument. I was simply pointing out the utter stupidity of your question, given the historical context you had to ignore to even attempt such a ridiculous argument.

 

[Saintamaniac]

Yes, I do understand that, that is why I said I understand why these were created, I just disagree with the way they were created or the duration of these classes.

How would you have created protected classes? They were only necessary and continue to be necessary because people who look like you continue to do things that make them necessary.

Can you give me an example of how 'I' refuse to allow people to have their own religious beliefs and freely practice those religious beliefs because they differ from my own?

Yes.

Atheists handle a person of faith much like the radical Christians you guys love to lament would handle a witch in Salem in the late 1600s.

This is completely false but I'm not surprised you said it.

You’re going to have to cite examples of atheists banding together to burn Christians.

He can't and he won't for obvious reasons.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Women with restricted access to abortion in the last 40 years may have faced a higher risk of suicide, according to new research from the University of Pennsylvania.

Abortion restriction laws may have influenced suicide rates among reproductive-aged women from 1974 to 2016, according to a study released Wednesday in Jama Psychiatry.

Previously, the Turnaway Study conducted by the University of California, San Francisco found that women are more likely to suffer anxiety and loss of self-esteem in the short term after being denied an abortion, and are less likely to have aspirational life plans for the coming year.

However, according to the researchers behind Wednesday’s study, this study is the first of its kind to test whether access to reproductive care is directly associated with suicide.

According to the study in Jama, 21 states implemented at least one targeted regulation of abortion providers law from 1974 to 2016. Trap laws are measures that regulate where abortions may be provided and performed. Major medical organizations oppose Trap laws and have called them clandestine attempts to limit abortion access via costly and medically unnecessary requirements.

Some Trap law regulations include minimum measurements for room size and corridor width, which, according to the Guttmacher Institute, “may necessitate relocation or costly changes to a clinic’s physical layout and structure”.

“By imposing regulations that sound technical and bureaucratic to a casual observer, [Trap laws] avoid the kind of widespread public scrutiny that the flurry of bans passed in 2019 provoked. Typically cloaked in the language of healthcare, the regulations they impose on abortion providers are costly and, in many cases, impossible to comply with,” said a report from the American Civil Liberties Union.

Since 1970, states have enacted more than 1,300 abortion restrictions, including limitations on abortion after six weeks. “Enforcement of a Trap law was associated with a 5.81% higher annual rate of suicide than in pre-enforcement years,” Wednesday’s study revealed……..

Women with restricted abortion access may face higher suicide risk – study

Research shows anti-abortion laws may have affected suicide rates among reproductive-aged women from 1974 to 2016

www.theguardian.com

 

[Farb]

It'll end when discrimination for those in the protected class become an exception instead of the norm. But as of right now, unless you live under a rock or are just in denial, 2022 isn't it, and i seriously doubt it'll be anytime soon. You can't stop bigotry but you can quell it to some extent, but the worse offenders will always find ways around it. But there is nothing wrong with those being call out on it. I know you stongly believe if we just "ignore" it, it'll go away, but thats just a pipe dream, and i have some ocean front property in Arizona i want to sell you..

So not until the political party that relies on the phantom fear of 'systemic racism' and bigotry gives the all clear, then it is business and voting as usual? There will be no end until a certain political ideology has all the power and personal accountability and personal freedom is stamped out for the 'greater good'. I don't doubt that is the plan at all. Thank you for being honest.

 

[Farb]

I don't know, but to outlaw protected classes you'd have to pass another amendment to nullify the 14th amendment. That doesn't seem likely to me any time soon. But I think a better question is why protected classes bother you and other conservatives so much? Being part of a protected class doesn't give you more rights than people who aren't part of a protected class, it just gives you equal rights (for reasons I've already stated). That isn't something to get up in arms about unless you actively want to discriminate against people that are part of a protected class.



Yes, there are several examples of it in the "All Things Racist Thread".



It's not "elevating", no matter how many times you repeat it. It's making things equal for those in the protected class.



No, not at all.

I will agree that equal protection under the law is the end goal and that goal has been met, so much so that there needs to be a course correction. To ensure equal protection under the law does not, in my opinion, give the right for the law (the state) to celebrate any group over another. It does so you can deny it, but everyone knows that to be true.

Who is not a protected class in this country? Can you honestly not see why the idea of protected classes would bother those that are not in the protected class group? You can but that would be to undermine the entire narrative.

There are no civil rights in jeopardy that is only allowed to the protected class status. Again, who is not a protected class?

Is it making it equal or is it installing equity?