Should we see the removal of statues like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. (1 Viewer)

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TheRealTruth

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Recently CNN aired an interview where one of the guests suggested what is in the topic.



I agree with the removal of confederate statues around the country, but should this also be done for founding fathers?
 

MT15

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Progressives: “The US is pervaded by racism and its Founders were all bigoted white dudes.”

Conservatives: “This country is great and we will defend it against attacks from those who want to destroy it.”

Media: “Conservatives promote divisive message and foment culture war.”
This is such a dishonest characterization that it looks like trolling. Here is one quote (taken from the WH website) highlighting the divisive message and culture war that Trump is pushing. The GOP needs to decide rather quickly whether they can get behind his message. He has repeatedly classified all Democrats as “radical” and labeled reporters as “enemies of the people”. He has also repeatedly signaled that he considers his interests as identical to the interests of the state. To me, someone is trying to destroy the American revolution, but it isn’t the protestors. There isn’t anything new about these protestors. The far greater danger here is from Trump and a complicit GOP.

”In our schools, our newsrooms, even our corporate boardrooms, there is a new far-left fascism that demands absolute allegiance. If you do not speak its language, perform its rituals, recite its mantras, and follow its commandments, then you will be censored, banished, blacklisted, persecuted, and punished. It’s not going to happen to us. (Applause.)

Make no mistake: this left-wing cultural revolution is designed to overthrow the American Revolution. In so doing, they would destroy the very civilization that rescued billions from poverty, disease, violence, and hunger, and that lifted humanity to new heights of achievement, discovery, and progress.

To make this possible, they are determined to tear down every statue, symbol, and memory of our national heritage.”


For more about why Trump’s message of hate and division is not a winning message (🤞🏻) in a time of multiple national crises like we have now, read this thread by Frum.

 

Farb

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Are we all saying there is not a culture war right now in this country?
 

superchuck500

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Are we all saying there is not a culture war right now in this country?
Weird question - is anyone saying that? There clearly is a culture war. And Trump very clearly stirs it on a daily basis because he thinks (accurately) that a percentage of the American electorate support his views - no matter how regressive or falsely premised as they may be.

In other news, Peter Navarro says he's "race-blind" because he grew up in California (where racism apparently doesn't exist) and that we should be focusing on "real problems".


 

Ayo

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Weird question - is anyone saying that? There clearly is a culture war. And Trump very clearly stirs it on a daily basis because he thinks (accurately) that a percentage of the American electorate support his views - no matter how regressive or falsely premised as they may be.

In other news, Peter Navarro says he's "race-blind" because he grew up in California (where racism apparently doesn't exist) and that we should be focusing on "real problems".


what a farce... and his example was drinking from a colored fountain to see what it was like to taste colored water.

Ugh.
 

wardorican

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Progressives: “The US is pervaded by racism and its Founders were all bigoted white dudes.”

Conservatives: “This country is great and we will defend it against attacks from those who want to destroy it.”

Media: “Conservatives promote divisive message and foment culture war.”
Reasonable People: "All of that is wrong"
 

SaintForLife

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Taibbi with an excellent analysis of the current situation:

It’s the Fourth of July, and revolution is in the air. Only in America would it look like this: an elite-sponsored Maoist revolt, couched as a Black liberation movement whose canonical texts are a corporate consultant’s white guilt self-help manual, and a New York Times series rewriting history to explain an election they called wrong.

...It’s tragic that this even needs saying, but the sudden reinvention in the press of modern America as a Nazi apartheid state is as phony as the thousands of patriotic campaigns that occupied the news media previously. We’re witnessing an obscene malfunction of the elite messaging system.

The people who run this country have run out of workable myths with which to distract the public, and in a moment of extreme crisis have chosen to stoke civil war and defame the rest of us – black and white – rather than admit to a generation of corruption, betrayal, and mismanagement.

...Unfortunately, voters had other problems. By 2016 Americans had lived for a generation under an economic model dominated by huge transnational companies that sold weapons into holocausts of urban violence, rejoiced in addiction to opiates or carcinogens as a revenue model, bled virtually all the savings of the American middle class (targeting minorities especially) through a succession of speculative bubble schemes, and relentlessly lobbied to be exempted from taxes, environmental laws, criminal penalties, and even their own business errors, through bailouts approved by the “politicians” they sponsored in both parties.

The concessions to civilization employers had once under great pressure agreed to provide – pensions, medical insurance, sick leave, the forty-hour work week – vanished as the manufacturing economy was exported in a snap to unfree labor zones like China and Indonesia. Both parties supported the deals American business made with monster states. Just this week U.S. customs seized 13 tons of human hair farmed from the heads of Uighur political prisoners in Chinese labor camps: we gave that country Most Favored Nation Trading status eons ago.

 

MT15

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I take it from your support for this opinion piece that you definitely won’t be voting for Trump. Is that correct?
 

SaintForLife

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Weird question - is anyone saying that? There clearly is a culture war. And Trump very clearly stirs it on a daily basis because he thinks (accurately) that a percentage of the American electorate support his views - no matter how regressive or falsely premised as they may be.

In other news, Peter Navarro says he's "race-blind" because he grew up in California (where racism apparently doesn't exist) and that we should be focusing on "real problems".


Are you claiming that those on the right are leading the culture wars?
 

UncleTrvlingJim

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Are you claiming that those on the right are leading the culture wars?
I think he's saying they're as enthusiastic participants in it as those on the left.

I doubt anyone here can say definitively whose leading it, since people are likely to react more viscerally when they think they are being attacked than when they casually observe someone on their "side" doing the same thing to someone else.
 
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MT15

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I like to think of it as the extremes of both sides. And the examples from the right are just as many, maybe more, but I do think UTJ is right and I see those more readily. The fact that it’s Trump leading the way certainly amplifies it from the right.
 

LA - L.A.

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Are you claiming that those on the right are leading the culture wars?
The different sides of a war are led by people on the different sides. That's how war works. If there is an actual "culture war," then all "sides" are being lead by people on their "side."
 
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Ayo

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I think he's saying they're as enthusiastic participants in it as those on the left.

I doubt anyone here can say definitively whose leading it, since people are likely to react more viscerally when they think they are being attacked than when they casually observe someone on their "side" doing the same thing to someone else.
Whatever they're complaining about doing, you can bet they are doing the same thing.

Race baiting? Yes.
Cancel culture? Ayep.
Identity politics? No doubt.
Intersectionality? Of course.

and so on. In fact, I'd be hard pressed to identify something that the right is accusing the left of things that they aren't, themselves, doing
 

Ayo

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Whatever they're complaining about doing, you can bet they are doing the same thing.

Race baiting? Yes.
Cancel culture? Ayep.
Identity politics? No doubt.
Intersectionality? Of course.

and so on. In fact, I'd be hard pressed to identify something that the right is accusing the left of things that they aren't, themselves, doing
Oh, and how could I forget one of the biggest ones: Virtue Signaling from one of the OGs (Original Generals) of the Culture War.

The current iteration of Virtue Signaling, so derided by the right, was birthed from between Newt Gingrich's pale, meaty haunches.

And that last line isn't even the most grotesque thing about this post.
 

CoolBrees

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“Taibbi with an excellent analysis” said no one ever.....

Yeah the PTL, Contract with America and the Moral Majority would like to have a word with you.

It’s like neoconservativism and the 80’s &90’s never existed, except in some myth where Newt Gingrich wasn’t cheating on his cancer riddled wife while banging the impeachment drum for a bj.
 

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