Ruth Bader Ginsburg has passed (Replaced by Amy Coney Barrett)(Now Abortion Discussion) (3 Viewers)

[GrandAdmiral]

Ugh... breaking news I DID NOT want to see.

ETA: Reported on CNN.

 

[Farb]

https://thesatanictemple.tv/media/upcoming-events/announcement/

I can't honestly say, this does not surprise me at all. Does this surprise anyone else?

 

[brandon]

https://thesatanictemple.tv/media/upcoming-events/announcement/

I can't honestly say, this does not surprise me at all. Does this surprise anyone else?

You're getting trolled so hard.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

Another interesting tidbit of note is that the GOP will never be able to entirely outlaw abortion in the United States. The most the Supreme Court can do is allow states to restrict abortion -- it cannot, under any interpretation of the Constitution -- compel states to ban abortion.

The only way a total ban on abortion could be achieved is by way of Constitutional amendment (not happening) or federal statute (also probably not happening given the filibuster) should the GOP eventually control the House, Senate, and Presidency (and then you are always going to have some GOP Senators and Congressman that won't go along with it).

In short, opponents of abortion are fighting a mostly philosophical battle. One that usually ends up hurting their metrics in objective categories. It's no coincidence that more conservative states tend to be less affluent, have less centers of tech and education, etc. Texas does not count because it is a fairly position in having lots of oil.

 

[MT15]

Farb, I used the virtue signaling term to show you how it feels to be accused of that. You’re pretty quick to toss that term around about other people. It doesn’t feel so good, does it? Calls your entire integrity into question. I can tell you didn’t like it, so maybe you could refrain from using it against others?

Also, your religious objection to abortion is just that. It shouldn’t be applied to people across the entire country. We shouldn’t have a law just because of a religious tenet, especially if it limits or denies access to health care to actual people.

People who have a religious objection to women having control of their bodies should counsel the people in their own church and help their cause for their own congregations and keep their religion out of the law. That’s the same thing as Sharia Law. Exactly the same.

People like you always say they want to hold men accountable as well, but they just never get around to making it happen. Funny how that works, huh? A lot of women never collect any child support at all, or they get it sporadically. When it’s convenient for the man, and just enough to keep him out of trouble with the court.

Meanwhile, people in Texas who find out they have a fatal diagnosis in their fetus will be forced to take the failed pregnancy to term, or wait for the fetus to die and be expelled naturally. We have the means to reduce their suffering and minimize their health risks, but screw that.

Women will die because of the Texas law. It’s monstrous.

 

[Farb]

Another interesting tidbit of note is that the GOP will never be able to entirely outlaw abortion in the United States. The most the Supreme Court can do is allow states to restrict abortion -- it cannot, under any interpretation of the Constitution -- compel states to ban abortion.

I agree, and that is the way it should have been. But instead, the federal government by the way of the SCOTUS invented a constitutional right where there is none.

 

[Farb]

Farb, I used the virtue signaling term to show you how it feels to be accused of that. You’re pretty quick to toss that term around about other people. It doesn’t feel so good, does it? Calls your entire integrity into question. I can tell you didn’t like it, so maybe you could refrain from using it against others?

Also, your religious objection to abortion is just that. It shouldn’t be applied to people across the entire country. We shouldn’t have a law just because of a religious tenet, especially if it limits or denies access to health care to actual people.

People who have a religious objection to women having control of their bodies should counsel the people in their own church and help their cause for their own congregations and keep their religion out of the law. That’s the same thing as Sharia Law. Exactly the same.

People like you always say they want to hold men accountable as well, but they just never get around to making it happen. Funny how that works, huh? A lot of women never collect any child support at all, or they get it sporadically. When it’s convenient for the man, and just enough to keep him out of trouble with the court.

Meanwhile, people in Texas who find out they have a fatal diagnosis in their fetus will be forced to take the failed pregnancy to term, or wait for the fetus to die and be expelled naturally. We have the means to reduce their suffering and minimize their health risks, but screw that.

Women will die because of the Texas law. It’s monstrous.

Yeah, you can say I virtue signal all you would like, on some instances, I do virtue signal. It does not bother me. I know I am right so anyone can say whatever they wan to say to me or about me. It honestly does not bother me. Just today, I have been called a misogynist, and a zealot. Have not been called a racist yet or a homophobe yet, but the day is still young.

You do know there are more women who oppose destroying a baby in the womb then men right? I am sure you do but it is easier for the 'bad man/handsmaids tale nonsense.
I do tend to agree with you about the politicians that screech about ending abortion but then do nothing when they have power. That is why I detest the repubs just as much as the dems. Now the socialist I have much much more than distain but that is another conversation, or light work as to borrow a phrase that really means nothing on this board apparently.

Why do you pick the rarest of cases for an argument? Texas preformed about average 50K abortions the last several years. That means close to 25K women were also killed by abortion but you guys only care about human when they can vote I guess.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Yep, I hate women. I want to punish women. The fact that you have to drill down to this idiotic response to a moral and legal debate is kind of gross, but not unexpected.

Do you think I want to punish women or do I want to protect an innocent's right to life? Your binary thought process is why the pro destroying of a human in the womb movement is losing and losing badly. (fingers crossed).

If you want to discuss how to get the men that got the girl pregnant, I am all for that. I think the guy should be forced, by law and policy to help provide for the woman and baby. 100% on board with that. If that is the case, there are going to be other fights about what if the female wants an abortion and and the male, who is now has legal skin in game, does not, who wins that one?

Edited to add: For the lame and lazy talking point about bad people who don't want babies skulls crushed in the womb so the parents can still afford to netflix and chill, just like to virtue signal and not actually do anything, what about those of us that actually do something? Believe it or not, there are more people that you think that actually financially, physically and spiritually help any and all mothers. I know for a fact of 2 mothers that recently made the decision to keep their babies with the help and service of a group I am very active in.

Then perhaps you should refrain from them as well.

What informs your opinion that a fetus is a living human from birth?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Caitlin Jenner was interviewed on CNN this morning and tried to have it both ways saying she believes in a woman’s right to choose but also in the stat’s right to pass laws as they see fit

I can’t believe the follow up question wasn’t “do you in a person’s right to transition to whatever gender they choose but a state can ban reassignment surgery and say ‘you are what your birth certificate says you are’?”

 

[Optimus Prime]

Another interesting tidbit of note is that the GOP will never be able to entirely outlaw abortion in the United States. The most the Supreme Court can do is allow states to restrict abortion -- it cannot, under any interpretation of the Constitution -- compel states to ban abortion.

The only way a total ban on abortion could be achieved is by way of Constitutional amendment (not happening) or federal statute (also probably not happening given the filibuster) should the GOP eventually control the House, Senate, and Presidency (and then you are always going to have some GOP Senators and Congressman that won't go along with it).

In short, opponents of abortion are fighting a mostly philosophical battle. One that usually ends up hurting their metrics in objective categories. It's no coincidence that more conservative states tend to be less affluent, have less centers of tech and education, etc. Texas does not count because it is a fairly position in having lots of oil.

the article I read said that in Texas 90-95% of abortions were after six weeks which makes it effectively a ban

 

[samiam5211]

https://thesatanictemple.tv/media/upcoming-events/announcement/

I can't honestly say, this does not surprise me at all. Does this surprise anyone else?

I must say I am a little surprised to find that you browse thesatanictemple.tv

 

[MT15]

Yeah, you can say I virtue signal all you would like, on some instances, I do virtue signal. It does not bother me. I know I am right so anyone can say whatever they wan to say to me or about me. It honestly does not bother me. Just today, I have been called a misogynist, and a zealot. Have not been called a racist yet or a homophobe yet, but the day is still young.

You do know there are more women who oppose destroying a baby in the womb then men right? I am sure you do but it is easier for the 'bad man/handsmaids tale nonsense.
I do tend to agree with you about the politicians that screech about ending abortion but then do nothing when they have power. That is why I detest the repubs just as much as the dems. Now the socialist I have much much more than distain but that is another conversation, or light work as to borrow a phrase that really means nothing on this board apparently.

Why do you pick the rarest of cases for an argument? Texas preformed about average 50K abortions the last several years. That means close to 25K women were also killed by abortion but you guys only care about human when they can vote I guess.

1-3% of pregnancies have a specific fatal genetic condition that is discovered in the fetus, usually somewhere between 15-20 weeks. Does that sound rare to you? We have the ability to allow the woman to make her heartbreaking choice to end that pregnancy at that time, rather than going through the pain and agony of carrying to term, and/or going into a spontaneous abortion at any time. Not to mention that the planned abortion in these cases is safer for the woman medically as well. But, naw, we will just make women go back to a time when medicine couldn’t do anything to help, because women don’t matter. They don’t deserve modern healthcare. Right?

How many years to get to 50k? How many of those procedures were for medical reasons, or rape and/or incest? How many were done to escape the clutches of an abusive partner? You don’t care about them, you only care about punishing women you see as “loose”. The reality is so far different than what you carry in your head, it’s ridiculous.

How many of the politicians (and just plain regular people who oppose abortion for that matter) obtained an abortion for their teenage daughter or for a mistress? Because they had the means.

I notice you completely ignored the truth about the anti-abortionists wanting to impose their religious beliefs on everyone. The Sharia Law that they want to impose on the entire country.

The church should counsel against abortion, to all their members. They should offer alternative to everyone. What they should absolutely not do is ban a woman’s right to choose what she does with her own body. What the woman decides is between her and her god. God gave us all free will, and yet evidently women don’t have that free will after all, because men are taking it away.

Yes, let‘s look at the polls:

Today, a 59% majority of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 39% think abortion should be illegalin all or most cases. These views are relatively unchanged in the past few years. The latest Pew Research Center survey, conducted April 5 to 11, finds deep disagreement between – and within – the parties over abortion. In fact, the partisan divide on abortion is far wider than it was two decades ago.

About six-in-ten Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases

A majority of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases; 37% think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Optimus Prime]

I get the impression that many pro lifers think that a woman is told she's pregnant and immediately says 'I want an abortion so I can keep clubbing and sleeping around', or "I like my life too much for a kid, get rid of it"

I don't know so but I'd imagine that rarely if ever happens.

It's probably a gut wrenching decision, and one that isn't made lightly

 

[Farb]

Then perhaps you should refrain from them as well.

What informs your opinion that a fetus is a living human from birth?

Nope, I won't. If you go back and read, I said I don't mind other calling out either, so thanks but no thanks, I like the term. Sorry if it bothers you the only other option is to not read what I type or don't virtue signal.

Are you asking me what make a human? At what point do you think it is not OK to destroy a human life that is in the womb?

 

[Farb]

I get the impression that many pro lifers think that a woman is told she's pregnant and immediately says 'I want an abortion so I can keep clubbing and sleeping around', or "I like my life too much for a kid, get rid of it"

I don't know so but I'd imagine that rarely if ever happens.

It's probably a gut wrenching decision, and one that isn't made lightly

From my little and I mean minute experience, you would be surprised.

 

[Farb]

1-3% of pregnancies have a specific fatal genetic condition that is discovered in the fetus, usually somewhere between 15-20 weeks. Does that sound rare to you? We have the ability to allow the woman to make her heartbreaking choice to end that pregnancy at that time, rather than going through the pain and agony of carrying to term, and/or going into a spontaneous abortion at any time. Not to mention that the planned abortion in these cases is safer for the woman medically as well. But, naw, we will just make women go back to a time when medicine couldn’t do anything to help, because women don’t matter. They don’t deserve modern healthcare. Right?

How many years to get to 50k? How many of those procedures were for medical reasons, or rape and/or incest? How many were done to escape the clutches of an abusive partner? You don’t care about them, you only care about punishing women you see as “loose”. The reality is so far different than what you carry in your head, it’s ridiculous.

How many of the politicians (and just plain regular people who oppose abortion for that matter) obtained an abortion for their teenage daughter or for a mistress? Because they had the means.

I notice you completely ignored the truth about the anti-abortionists wanting to impose their religious beliefs on everyone. The Sharia Law that they want to impose on the entire country.

The church should counsel against abortion, to all their members. They should offer alternative to everyone. What they should absolutely not do is ban a woman’s right to choose what she does with her own body. What the woman decides is between her and her god. God gave us all free will, and yet evidently women don’t have that free will after all, because men are taking it away.

Yes, let‘s look at the polls:

Today, a 59% majority of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 39% think abortion should be illegalin all or most cases. These views are relatively unchanged in the past few years. The latest Pew Research Center survey, conducted April 5 to 11, finds deep disagreement between – and within – the parties over abortion. In fact, the partisan divide on abortion is far wider than it was two decades ago.

About six-in-ten Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases

A majority of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases; 37% think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases.

www.pewresearch.org

Yes, 1 to 3% does seem rare. What is the miscarriage rate?

The church does not ban anything in the this country, they are not legislative thank the Lord. They do council and provide women with support for an alternative to crushing a skull in the womb.

Ok, I don't care about loose women, I only want to punish them. I am one midnight stroll in London from being Jack the Ripper.
Do you think women are all pro-choice? That seems to be the screeching form the left and the church of satan (added for effect, like the loose women comment).
Ove 50% women are pro-life, more than men, so this handsmaid tale malarkey might need to be redrawn.
I will tell you a secret. When a man gets a girl pregnant and does the right thing, the thing that men do, his life is changed forever and is considerably harder for the rest of his life. This is for a mistake he and his lady friend made. I am glad for it. Life is not easy, it is not suppose to be. It is hard to do the right thing.
You know my positions on medical, rape and incest and they mirror yours, but yet, I hate women. Odd. but yet I am the one that only has

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Nope, I won't. If you go back and read, I said I don't mind other calling out either, so thanks but no thanks, I like the term. Sorry if it bothers you the only other option is to not read what I type or don't virtue signal.

Are you asking me what make a human? At what point do you think it is not OK to destroy a human life that is in the womb?

I am asking you what supports your assertion that a fetus is alive.

 

[bdb13]

Stopping destroying a developing human life is not birth control. If you don't want to have a child then don't have sex. If you are coerist into having sex or unprotected sex at that, then that is really on you and no one else. That is called bad decisions and generally in life, those have consequences. If you do the crime, you do the time.

I view it as akin to the axiom "the government closest to the people serves the people best." In my view it's not the role of others to impose their moral code and supersede the autonomy of.. let's say my wife and I.. to make a decision that's consequential only to the two of us.

Are you asking me what make a human? At what point do you think it is not OK to destroy a human life that is in the womb?

Higher brain function and the fetus' ability to sense pain. Prior to that I view the fetus as akin to a brain dead individual in a vegetative state.

 

[MT15]

Yes, 1 to 3% does seem rare. What is the miscarriage rate?

The church does not ban anything in the this country, they are not legislative thank the Lord. They do council and provide women with support for an alternative to crushing a skull in the womb.

Ok, I don't care about loose women, I only want to punish them. I am one midnight stroll in London from being Jack the Ripper.
Do you think women are all pro-choice? That seems to be the screeching form the left and the church of satan (added for effect, like the loose women comment).
Ove 50% women are pro-life, more than men, so this handsmaid tale malarkey might need to be redrawn.
I will tell you a secret. When a man gets a girl pregnant and does the right thing, the thing that men do, his life is changed forever and is considerably harder for the rest of his life. This is for a mistake he and his lady friend made. I am glad for it. Life is not easy, it is not suppose to be. It is hard to do the right thing.
You know my positions on medical, rape and incest and they mirror yours, but yet, I hate women. Odd. but yet I am the one that only has

You took a shot at me, saying I only care about humans who can vote. So I took a shot at you, don’t like it, then stop doing it. You say you don’t mind, but your responses say different.

Now to debunk your strange ideas about who supports a woman’s right to make her own decisions about her own healthcare and her own body. This chart is from the Pew report (2021) that I linked above:

You still haven’t answered my question about why your religious beliefs get to be imposed on everyone and how is that different than Sharia Law?