DaveXA
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Wasn't sure where to put this, but we need a thread for the wing nuts. Lauren Boebert.
Right wing nuts thread (1 Viewer)
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coldseat
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Because it seems antithetical to prevent the government/FBI from purchasing (i.e. legally acquiring) information that other people and entities can purchase. If this information is so personal that we should prevent the government from purchasing it, then we shouldn't be letting technology companies just sell it to other buyers. That would solve the problem with the warrants because then the government would be forced to get a warrant since they can't legally purchase it.
In other words, it seems like the focus and intent of those pursuing this is off.
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SaintForLife
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If they can legally aquire that information, why are they getting it from a 3rd party? They know they can't get that information themselves legally so they get around that by getting it from 3rd parties.
That kind of data isn't the only thing they get that's at issue here. They are able to spy on Americans without getting a warrant. FISA is only supposed to be used for foreigners.
coldseat
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Purchasing something for sale is legally acquiring it. But there may be other reason, such as the information is packaged in a way that makes it easier for them to use or search. I couldn't really say either way.
That's not correct. They still needed to get a FISA warrant to surveil American, and they can only surveil Americans that or connected to foreign entities.
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Electronic Surveillance Procedures – Subchapter I of FISA established procedures for the conduct of foreign intelligence surveillance and created the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC). The Department of Justice must apply to the FISC to obtain a warrant authorizing electronic surveillance of foreign agents. For targets that are U.S. persons (U.S. citizens, permanent resident aliens, and U.S. corporations), FISA requires heightened requirements in some instances.
- Unlike domestic criminal surveillance warrants issued under Title III of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 (the "Wiretap Act") , agents need to demonstrate probable cause to believe that the "target of the surveillance is a foreign power or agent of a foreign power," that "a significant purpose" of the surveillance is to obtain "foreign intelligence information," and that appropriate "minimization procedures" are in place. 50 U.S.C. § 1804.
- Agents do not need to demonstrate that commission of a crime is imminent.
- For purposes of FISA, agents of foreign powers include agents of foreign political organizations and groups engaged in international terrorism, as well as agents of foreign nations. 50 U.S.C. § 1801
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The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA) | Bureau of Justice Assistance
50 U.S.C. §§ 1801-11, 1821-29, 1841-46, 1861-62, 1871.
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SaintForLife
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That's how FISA is supposed to work, but the government has abused and expanded what they are collecting based on what FISA was supposed to allow.Purchasing something for sale is legally acquiring it. But there may be other reason, such as the information is packaged in a way that makes it easier for them to use or search. I couldn't really say either way.
That's not correct. They still needed to get a FISA warrant to surveil American, and they can only surveil Americans that or connected to foreign entities.
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Electronic Surveillance Procedures – Subchapter I of FISA established procedures for the conduct of foreign intelligence surveillance and created the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC). The Department of Justice must apply to the FISC to obtain a warrant authorizing electronic surveillance of foreign agents. For targets that are U.S. persons (U.S. citizens, permanent resident aliens, and U.S. corporations), FISA requires heightened requirements in some instances.
Record Destruction: Where the government has accidentally intercepted communications that "under circumstances in which a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy and a warrant would be required for law enforcement purposes, and if both the sender and all intended recipients are located within the United States," the government is required to destroy those records, "unless the Attorney General determines that the contents indicate a threat of death or serious bodily harm to any person." 50 U.S.C. § 1806.
- Unlike domestic criminal surveillance warrants issued under Title III of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 (the "Wiretap Act") , agents need to demonstrate probable cause to believe that the "target of the surveillance is a foreign power or agent of a foreign power," that "a significant purpose" of the surveillance is to obtain "foreign intelligence information," and that appropriate "minimization procedures" are in place. 50 U.S.C. § 1804.
- Agents do not need to demonstrate that commission of a crime is imminent.
- For purposes of FISA, agents of foreign powers include agents of foreign political organizations and groups engaged in international terrorism, as well as agents of foreign nations. 50 U.S.C. § 1801
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The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA) | Bureau of Justice Assistance
50 U.S.C. §§ 1801-11, 1821-29, 1841-46, 1861-62, 1871.
In 2011, the government informed the FISA Court that it had collected 250 million Internet communications under Section 702 the previous year. Given the growth in the program, the number today is likely closer to one billion. This inevitably includes large volumes of Americans’ communications, for the simple reason that Americans communicate with foreigners. The government refers to the collection of Americans’ communication as “incidental” to signify that Americans are not the intended targets of the surveillance.
Critically, if the government’s intent were to eavesdrop on those Americans, the program would be unlawful. Purposefully spying on Americans would require either a regular warrant (in criminal investigations) or a FISA Title I order (in foreign intelligence investigations). To prevent the government from using Section 702 as an end-run around these constitutional and statutory requirements, Congress included two key provisions in the law. First, the government must “minimize” the collection, sharing, and retention of Americans’ information. Second, the government must certify that it is not engaged in “reverse targeting,” namely, using the surveillance to obtain the communications of particular, known Americans.
DOMESTIC SPYING
Fifteen years into the program, it is clear that these protections are not working. The government, with the FISA Court’s backing, has adopted a remarkably maximal interpretation of minimization. After collecting the data, the NSA routinely shares portions of it—including Americans’ communications—with the CIA, the FBI, and the National Counterterrorism Center. All agencies retain the data for at least five years, and in some cases, such as when the data is encrypted, much longer.
The most controversial aspect of the program, however, is the use of “backdoor searches” (or, as the government refers to them, “U.S. person queries”): the practice of electronically searching the Section 702–acquired data to find and retrieve Americans’ phone calls, text messages, and emails. In other words, having obtained the data without a warrant by certifying that it is not seeking access to the communications of particular, known Americans, the government then intentionally searches that very data for the communications of particular, known Americans.
Information obtained through backdoor searches can be used against Americans in cases having nothing to do with the original surveillance. The FBI routinely performs these queries at the beginning, or what is known as the “assessment” stage, of its investigations—before it has sufficient facts to support a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity, let alone probable cause and a warrant.
This practice is a bait-and-switch that violates the spirit, if not the letter, of the reverse-targeting prohibition. It might also violate the U.S. Constitution. The FISA Court has blessed backdoor searches, but the court, which operates in secret and often hears only from government lawyers, is notoriously deferential to the government. Among the handful of regular federal courts that have had the chance to address these searches, several judges have expressed constitutional concerns. As federal appellate judge Carlos Lucero stated: “U.S. persons do not lose their protected privacy interests when they communicate with foreigners abroad.”
After years of resisting calls to disclose the information, the government recently began reporting the number of backdoor searches conducted by the FBI. In 2022 alone, the FBI conducted around 200,000 of these queries—more than 500 warrantless searches for Americans’ communications every day. The NSA and the CIA also conduct thousands of backdoor searches each year, according to government reports. These staggering numbers leave little doubt that a surveillance authority meant to target only foreigners has become something else entirely: a powerful domestic spying tool.
The Coming Fight Over American Surveillance
What’s at stake as Congress considers FISA reform.
Yeah, it’s not really a nut job case. It could be an interesting conversation but it’s a serious issue. To me, you have to be doing something really stupid and crazy for this thread. You should start a thread about it - but I can just about guarantee it’s not a black and white issue like you think it is.
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SaintForLife
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That's silly. You don't set the rules for what gets posted where. This a thread about Republicans who are nuts/idiots and Mike Turner fits that bill.
I’m not setting rules. But this is a very nuanced issue and would be better served in its own thread and not with the stupidity of this thread.
SamAndreas
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April 15th is Federal Tax day, Trump's trial day, and the day the US Congress rules committee takes up the following bills:
I thought it might be April 1st do over day as well but these are real bills. I included the links to them because if I hadn't, I wouldn't have believed me.
I thought it might be April 1st do over day as well but these are real bills. I included the links to them because if I hadn't, I wouldn't have believed me.
1) - H.R.6192 - Hands Off Our Home Appliances Act
2) - H.R.7673 - Liberty in Laundry Act
3) - H.R.7645 - Clothes Dryer Reliability Act
4) - H.R.7637 - Refrigerator Freedom Act
5) - H.R.7626 - Affordable Air Conditioning Act
6) - H.R.7700 - Stop Unaffordable Dishwasher Standards Act
SamAndreas
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Wow, a case of they did what I would have wanted them to do.
BTW - before deciding that they did what I wanted them to do I looked into it and this bill doesn't affect crop dusting, not that I like crop dusting either.
The release of chemicals must not be for the purpose of "affecting temperature, weather, or the intensity of the sunlight".
A reasonable regulation. Every state should have one.
Bigdaddysaints
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wewre they all wearing tin foil hats when they voted?
Optimus Prime
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Two powerful conservative non-profits have donated millions of dollars to a number of pro-Trump groups led by key far-right allies Stephen Miller, Charlie Kirk and others that have promoted election denialism, extremist anti-immigrant policies and legal challenges to bolster the Maga movement.
Based in Wisconsin, the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation and the Bradley Impact Fund in 2022 separately doled out six- and seven-figure checks to groups such as Miller’s America First Legal and Kirk’s Turning Point USA, and other Trump-friendly bastions such as the Heritage Foundation and Michael Flynn’s America’s Future.
Watchdog groups that track money in politics say the Bradley Foundation and the closely-tied Bradley Impact Fund have become increasingly influential in funding the Maga ecosystem in recent years as Trump is all but certain to be the Republican 2024 presidential nominee.
“The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation and Bradley Impact Fund have emerged as major forces in Maga circles,” said Michael Beckel, the research director for Issue One, a bipartisan political reform group.…….
www.theguardian.com
Based in Wisconsin, the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation and the Bradley Impact Fund in 2022 separately doled out six- and seven-figure checks to groups such as Miller’s America First Legal and Kirk’s Turning Point USA, and other Trump-friendly bastions such as the Heritage Foundation and Michael Flynn’s America’s Future.
Watchdog groups that track money in politics say the Bradley Foundation and the closely-tied Bradley Impact Fund have become increasingly influential in funding the Maga ecosystem in recent years as Trump is all but certain to be the Republican 2024 presidential nominee.
“The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation and Bradley Impact Fund have emerged as major forces in Maga circles,” said Michael Beckel, the research director for Issue One, a bipartisan political reform group.…….
Powerful conservative funds hand out millions to pro-Trump far-right groups
Groups led by Stephen Miller and Charlie Kirk among recipients of large sums from Bradley Foundation and Bradley Impact Fund
Optimus Prime
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Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-NY) grew up quite a bit wealthier than she has let on since entering politics, according to a new investigative report.
The New York Republican contrasted herself against her Democratic rival in 2014 as a scrappy underdog running against a "multimillionaire," but The Daily Beast found that the Harvard graduate came from a much more comfortable background than she has let on.
"If Stefanik was supposed to remember where she came from, she seems to have forgotten — to the point of making blatantly misleading statements, beginning in her first congressional campaign — how her family’s wealth has given her a leg up, from providing her with an expensive private-school education to her parents buying her a $1.2 million D.C. townhouse when she was just 26," wrote William Bredderman and Jake Lahut for the website.
She was actually asked about that townhouse, which is now valued at more than $1.85 million, according to assessor records, and while she has long described the three-bedroom residence as an “investment property,” the D.C. Recorder of Deeds office shows no other investors in house other than Stefanik’s parents and her younger brother.
Stefanik has repeatedly said her parents "risked everything" to start up the company Premium Plywood Products "from scratch," but The Daily Beast found that they secured a Small Business Administration-guaranteed loan worth $335,000 — around $755,000 in today’s money – shortly after incorporating the company in 1991, and her father was also able to resolve a federal tax lien lodged in 1997 for $21,621 in under a month.
The future lawmaker attended Albany Academy for Girls, where New York's political and business elites have long sent their daughters, and she graduated from Harvard in 2006 and went straight to work for then-president George W. Bush's administration with the help of an Ivy League mentor.
The Daily Beast investigation also found evidence that Stefanik's own business ventures received substantial assistance from her parents' wealth, in contrast with her political biography's claims, and the lawmaker's team disputed the findings of what they inaccurately described as a "pitched story.".............
www.rawstory.com
The New York Republican contrasted herself against her Democratic rival in 2014 as a scrappy underdog running against a "multimillionaire," but The Daily Beast found that the Harvard graduate came from a much more comfortable background than she has let on.
"If Stefanik was supposed to remember where she came from, she seems to have forgotten — to the point of making blatantly misleading statements, beginning in her first congressional campaign — how her family’s wealth has given her a leg up, from providing her with an expensive private-school education to her parents buying her a $1.2 million D.C. townhouse when she was just 26," wrote William Bredderman and Jake Lahut for the website.
She was actually asked about that townhouse, which is now valued at more than $1.85 million, according to assessor records, and while she has long described the three-bedroom residence as an “investment property,” the D.C. Recorder of Deeds office shows no other investors in house other than Stefanik’s parents and her younger brother.
Stefanik has repeatedly said her parents "risked everything" to start up the company Premium Plywood Products "from scratch," but The Daily Beast found that they secured a Small Business Administration-guaranteed loan worth $335,000 — around $755,000 in today’s money – shortly after incorporating the company in 1991, and her father was also able to resolve a federal tax lien lodged in 1997 for $21,621 in under a month.
The future lawmaker attended Albany Academy for Girls, where New York's political and business elites have long sent their daughters, and she graduated from Harvard in 2006 and went straight to work for then-president George W. Bush's administration with the help of an Ivy League mentor.
The Daily Beast investigation also found evidence that Stefanik's own business ventures received substantial assistance from her parents' wealth, in contrast with her political biography's claims, and the lawmaker's team disputed the findings of what they inaccurately described as a "pitched story.".............
Elise Stefanik's brag about humble origins busted by new investigation
Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-NY) grew up quite a bit wealthier than she has let on since entering politics, according to a new investigative report.The New York Republican contrasted herself against her Democratic rival in 2014 as a scrappy underdog running against a "multimillionaire," but The Daily...
www.rawstory.com
Optimus Prime
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When you’re too extreme for a far right militia
=================================
A court appearance Monday solved one part of the mystery surrounding a Virginia man whose alleged talk of explosives landed him in a federal investigation: Russell Vane IV is alive.
Vane, 42, who uses the nickname “Duke,” had gone silent early this month after an anti-government militia he belonged to publicly disavowed him over concerns about his repeated references to bombmaking.
An obituary for Vane popped up online in early April, saying that he’d died in mid-March, but the notice disappeared after a couple days. A man who answered Vane’s phone last week told The Washington Post that “Duke killed himself.”
But Vane appeared, very much alive, in federal custody Monday for a hearing on charges related to manufacturing the deadly poison ricin, indications of which FBI agents found during a search of his home on April 10, according to filings in U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia.
The courtroom resurrection of a “dead” defendant and the specter of biological weapons are the latest installments in a strange story that shows how anti-government groups are evolving in an era of greater FBI scrutiny and landmark Justice Department prosecutions of far-right extremists.
Earlier this month, members of the Virginia Kekoas “prepper” militia took the unusual step of going public with their fears that Vane, who formally joined last summer, might be either a government informant or a dangerous militant.
They gave the independent journalist Ford Fischer chat logs and other documentation showing how Vane’s talk of homemade explosives, Russian operatives and presidential assassination alarmed the group, which eventually removed him on March 10……
=================================
A court appearance Monday solved one part of the mystery surrounding a Virginia man whose alleged talk of explosives landed him in a federal investigation: Russell Vane IV is alive.
Vane, 42, who uses the nickname “Duke,” had gone silent early this month after an anti-government militia he belonged to publicly disavowed him over concerns about his repeated references to bombmaking.
An obituary for Vane popped up online in early April, saying that he’d died in mid-March, but the notice disappeared after a couple days. A man who answered Vane’s phone last week told The Washington Post that “Duke killed himself.”
But Vane appeared, very much alive, in federal custody Monday for a hearing on charges related to manufacturing the deadly poison ricin, indications of which FBI agents found during a search of his home on April 10, according to filings in U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia.
The courtroom resurrection of a “dead” defendant and the specter of biological weapons are the latest installments in a strange story that shows how anti-government groups are evolving in an era of greater FBI scrutiny and landmark Justice Department prosecutions of far-right extremists.
Earlier this month, members of the Virginia Kekoas “prepper” militia took the unusual step of going public with their fears that Vane, who formally joined last summer, might be either a government informant or a dangerous militant.
They gave the independent journalist Ford Fischer chat logs and other documentation showing how Vane’s talk of homemade explosives, Russian operatives and presidential assassination alarmed the group, which eventually removed him on March 10……
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