Right wing nuts thread (2 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but we need a thread for the wing nuts. Lauren Boebert.

 

[MT15]

Thanks for the info MT. But IMO and as I have said previously, I don’t find much in the other party to inspire hope and confidence nor do I find them anymore honest and trustworthy than any other politician. Maybe you could check the polling on that. Perhaps that is why the fastest growing political movement is the voters who call themselves independents.

So do the happy dance if you choose. You don’t have all that much to crow about.

There is nothing about those polls that makes me happy. Nobody should be happy that one of our two political parties is sliding into authoritarianism. It freaking scares me to death.

I was raised to be an independent voter. I had never made a political donation in my life until Trump came along. Neve considered myself a member of either party. But I can absolutely see that the modern GOP is an actual threat to our nation and am willing to vote in such a way as to neutralize that threat.

Right now, the only way to neutralize the GOP is to actively oppose them. And the only way to effectively oppose them is to vote for Democrats. There isn’t any other way. Voting for the modern GOP is simply appeasement at this point, at least at the national level.

 

[TampaJoe]

There is nothing about those polls that makes me happy. Nobody should be happy that one of our two political parties is sliding into authoritarianism. It freaking scares me to death.

I was raised to be an independent voter. I had never made a political donation in my life until Trump came along. Neve considered myself a member of either party. But I can absolutely see that the modern GOP is an actual threat to our nation and am willing to vote in such a way as to neutralize that threat.

Right now, the only way to neutralize the GOP is to actively oppose them. And the only way to effectively oppose them is to vote for Democrats. There isn’t any other way. Voting for the modern GOP is simply appeasement at this point, at least at the national level.

I am certainly not trying to convince you to do otherwise. Vote as you see fit. I have no issue with that. Do your thing.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Grew up in Tennessee. That’s about as Southern as it gets. Go Vols.

Tampa is a recent move.

As for your conversion in ideology, good for you. Whatever works for you.

Go Vols? That explains so much.

Why are you so opposed to changing your mind? Is there anything anyone could show you to convince you to change your beliefs?

 

[TampaJoe]

Go Vols? That explains so much.

Why are you so opposed to changing your mind? Is there anything anyone could show you to convince you to change your beliefs?

I’m no more opposed to changing my mind than are you.

But if you seek to convince me of something I know to be untrue and ridiculous on its face, I’m not interested in wasting my time or yours. Look if you truly believe that conservatives and people who vote GOP seek to dismantle democracy, then by all means vote accordingly.

But I don’t see the world as you do. I actually believe in the Constitution and our system of government and in the voters in 50 sovereign states. I and my fellow conservatives are not the enemy. How you chose to view us individually or collectively is up to you. I can’t control what you chose to believe. I don’t choose to view fellow citizens who don’t share my political views as existential threats to Democracy and my way of life. Sorry. I won’t go there with you. I won’t drink that koolaide. That never ends well.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I’m no more opposed to changing my mind than are you.

But if you seek to convince me of something I know to be untrue and ridiculous on its face, I’m not interested in wasting my time or yours. Look if you truly believe that conservatives and people who vote GOP seek to dismantle democracy, then by all means vote accordingly.

But I don’t see the world as you do. I actually believe in the Constitution and our system of government and in the voters in 50 sovereign states. I and my fellow conservatives are not the enemy. How you chose to view us individually or collectively is up to you. I can’t control what you chose to believe. I don’t choose to view fellow citizens who don’t share my political views as existential threats to Democracy and my way of life. Sorry. I won’t go there with you. I won’t drink that koolaide. That never ends well.

I know you won't go there. You have views that you refuse to change, no matter the evidence. Hell, you won't even consider the evidence. More than one person here has tried to engage you on it, and you refuse. What you don't realize is that it makes you unreasonable and irrational.

 

[TampaJoe]

I know you won't go there. You have views that you refuse to change, no matter the evidence. Hell, you won't even consider the evidence. More than one person here has tried to engage you on it, and you refuse. What you don't realize is that it makes you unreasonable and irrational.

Whatever.

 

[Optimus Prime]

The far right US publisher Passage Press is now part of Foundation Publishing Group and it is connected via a Foundation director, Daniel Lisi, to Network Press, whose only title to date is an “effective accelerationist” manifesto by tech-right venture capitalist Marc Andreessen.

Another rightwing publisher, science fiction publisher Ark Press, appears connected to Chapter House which Lisi, a literary scenester in Los Angeles, originally co-founded as an independent publisher of poetry, sci-fi and esoterica, but which now presents itself as a homeschooling resource.

The developments illuminate the far right’s efforts to disseminate ideologically charged material as art in the US, and raise questions about its place in the broader culture wars waged by the Trump administration which is carrying out a broad attack on what it sees as liberal culture.


Jordan Carroll is author of the book Speculative Whiteness: Science Fiction and the Alt-Right, an account of the far right’s recent efforts to advance their cause via genre fiction and the fan cultures surrounding it.

Carroll pointed to “a long tradition on the right of creating counter-institutions whose purpose is to develop a popular culture based on reactionary values in order to counterbalance what they have seen as the corrosive influence of the mainstream media, publishing, and academia”.

Lisi, the publisher and director, spent years as a face in Los Angeles’s diverse and left-leaning literary scene. He has now emerged as a player in a sprawling far-right cultural push, with his role in Foundation, Network, Passage and Ark revealed in company filings, trademarks, open source materials and public records.

In a recently self-published book, Lisi effectively laid out a blueprint that is reflected in Passage’s efforts to mainstream far-right writers by selling their work, offering high-end editions, and convening public events throughout the country.

Heidi Beirich, co-founder of the Global Project Against Hate and Extremism, told the Guardian it was “another example of the far right moving to directly impact culture, and especially young people, with extremist and anti-democratic beliefs”.

She added: “These efforts represent another front in the culture wars, one that is pushing America further from democracy and equality and closer to autocratic rule.”……..

How the far right seeks to spread its ideology through the publishing world

Efforts raise questions about the far right’s place in the broader culture wars waged by the Trump administration

www.theguardian.com

 

[MT15]

But if you seek to convince me of something I know to be untrue and ridiculous on its face,

We have shown you evidence of the slide into authoritarianism. It’s clear as day in poll after poll. It’s clear in actions Trump has taken to control universities, to stifle the press that is critical of him. Unprecedented actions.

You dismiss it out of hand. At least be honest with yourself. When you say you aren’t averse to changing your mind, that’s just not true.

 

[SaintRob]

I think every President of late pushes those boundaries. Trump is no different. Do I fear he will topple Democracy? No. Do I agree with his tactics and his strategy? No.

Who was it that said “I have a pen and a phone”. Did you have a problem then? This is politics on a 24/7 news cycle and with social media. I don’t care for it. It is dysfunctional. Trump didn’t make it dysfunctional. He just doesn’t mind the dysfunction.

I need an example of another president who took specific actions to eliminate checks and balances the way that Trump has. I'll give you one, FDR, and that was during WWII.

I'll ask you what the "pen and phone" speech accomplished? If you really think that Obama and Trump have similar agendas for Americans and that their actions are similar, I'll go ahead and stop the discussion, because you won't be genuine with your argument.

 

[TampaJoe]

I need an example of another president who took specific actions to eliminate checks and balances the way that Trump has. I'll give you one, FDR, and that was during WWII.

I'll ask you what the "pen and phone" speech accomplished? If you really think that Obama and Trump have similar agendas for Americans and that their actions are similar, I'll go ahead and stop the discussion, because you won't be genuine with your argument.

My point is that every President in recent history has been frustrated that they cannot get more of their agenda passed in regular order thru Congress. The legislature is highly partisan and working with the other side will get you primaried. The result is that moderates in both parties are replaced with people who have a more rigid ideology. That just exacerbates the problem. Admittedly Trump is just more “in your face about it”. I will go so far as to say he is abusing it.

But if you are looking for me to panic and say that one party or the other is actively seeking to replace Democracy with an authoritarian regime, you are going to be disappointed. You are overstating the problem.

Our government is dysfunctional as it operates today. It has been dysfunctional for decades. That is nothing new. That said, our system while dysfunctional still works in the end. The courts still work. The executive can only work around Congress to a point as neither party has total control. There are 50 sovereign states and they aren’t just going to blindly fall in line behind a dictator of either party. The government doesn’t control the means of communication.

It would be nice if the parties learned how to work together more effectively for the common good. Right now they appear to hate one another. Lots of distrust. But the established parties represent about 1/3 of the electorate and according to MT’s poll, 25% of the Republican Party is leaning to the extreme. That is about 8 to 9 percent of the electorate by my math. Far from a majority. I will wager about the same percentage on the left leans to the extreme. What is needed in both parties are leaders willing to build relationships and coalitions across the aisle. Maybe we will find one before we lose our position in the world to real authoritarian threats.

 

[SaintRob]

My point is that every President in recent history has been frustrated that they cannot get more of their agenda passed in regular order thru Congress. The legislature is highly partisan and working with the other side will get you primaried. The result is that moderates in both parties are replaced with people who have a more rigid ideology. That just exacerbates the problem. Admittedly Trump is just more “in your face about it”. I will go so far as to say he is abusing it.

But if you are looking for me to panic and say that one party or the other is actively seeking to replace Democracy with an authoritarian regime, you are going to be disappointed. You are overstating the problem.

Our government is dysfunctional as it operates today. It has been dysfunctional for decades. That is nothing new. That said, our system while dysfunctional still works in the end. The courts still work. The executive can only work around Congress to a point as neither party has total control. There are 50 sovereign states and they aren’t just going to blindly fall in line behind a dictator of either party. The government doesn’t control the means of communication.

It would be nice if the parties learned how to work together more effectively for the common good. Right now they appear to hate one another. Lots of distrust. But the established parties represent about 1/3 of the electorate and according to MT’s poll, 25% of the Republican Party is leaning to the extreme. That is about 8 to 9 percent of the electorate by my math. Far from a majority. I will wager about the same percentage on the left leans to the extreme. What is needed in both parties are leaders willing to build relationships and coalitions across the aisle. Maybe we will find one before we lose our position in the world to real authoritarian threats.

I actually like a lot about this response. The fact that you acknowledge that Trump is abusing his power is good. The republican led congress is just as complicit by not challenging him. I think there is an ongoing attempt by a small faction of MAGA loyalists that are attempting to reshape what a democracy/representative republic is. There are pieces in place in the Supreme Court, Congress, and Trump himself that are coordinating to give Trump massive power that is not intended by the Constitution. Do I think it's a Nazi Germany/Handmaid's Tale/Gilead type of change? No, I don't. But I do think it's an attempt to marginalize non-white/straight/Christian/males and reverse decades of progress in equality. It is also an attempt to shift wealth from the poor and middle class to the already ultra wealthy. We see it with the tariffs and stock market manipulation. It's all intentional to give the wealthy the opportunity to buy the dips and force failure among small businesses. The "taking away school lunches and medicaid from the poor" to fund tax cuts to the wealthy is a real thing that is happening.

What Trump and MAGA are doing is not benefitting John Q. United-States in any way. It's benefitting Trump and elites and we are shifting more towards an Oligarchy than government of, by, and for the people. Sure, you can argue that we have been in some fashion an Oligarchy for decades, but it's in your face now and the little guy is getting screwed by this government and lots and lots of the same little guy is cheering it on to his/her own detriment. I can only hope that we do see a major blue wave in a year and a half so that checks and balances do remain so that we see a bunch of things reversed. I'm in your independent boat, but right now, I vote blue across the board because it's so important to stop what's happening. I want to go back to voting who I think is best qualified, but I don't trust any republican right now to do the right thing. Republicans should be standing up for the Constitution and America against Trump, not allowing him to go unchecked. Even the judges that do stand up are getting attacked for not just letting Trump run rampant with his abuse of power.

 

[MT15]

That’s a good post, Joe. I am trying not to panic about things. But if you are clear-eyed about what is going on, it’s hard not to be alarmed.

When Nixon went part way down this road, his own party reined him in. I don’t see anybody in today’s GOP capable of that sort of courage. And Trump has done so much worse than Nixon ever dreamed of doing.

Instead, my so-called moderate GOP Senator voted to confirm every single nut job Trump wanted in his Cabinet. Our edge in medical research is gone, our edge in monetary policy is going to be gone very soon. We will probably have a pretty bad recession. We will have some fairly significant shortages due to mass deportations. Food, etc.

I think Trump is straining our systems like nobody else ever has. He’s already got ICE going into neighborhoods in military gear in unmarked vehicles with masks covering their faces and no identification anywhere - not even license plates on their vehicles. To arrest dishwashers and cooks.

This is outrageous, and nobody in the GOP will do anything but cheer them on.

 

[TampaJoe]

I actually like a lot about this response. The fact that you acknowledge that Trump is abusing his power is good. The republican led congress is just as complicit by not challenging him. I think there is an ongoing attempt by a small faction of MAGA loyalists that are attempting to reshape what a democracy/representative republic is. There are pieces in place in the Supreme Court, Congress, and Trump himself that are coordinating to give Trump massive power that is not intended by the Constitution. Do I think it's a Nazi Germany/Handmaid's Tale/Gilead type of change? No, I don't. But I do think it's an attempt to marginalize non-white/straight/Christian/males and reverse decades of progress in equality. It is also an attempt to shift wealth from the poor and middle class to the already ultra wealthy. We see it with the tariffs and stock market manipulation. It's all intentional to give the wealthy the opportunity to buy the dips and force failure among small businesses. The "taking away school lunches and medicaid from the poor" to fund tax cuts to the wealthy is a real thing that is happening.

What Trump and MAGA are doing is not benefitting John Q. United-States in any way. It's benefitting Trump and elites and we are shifting more towards an Oligarchy than government of, by, and for the people. Sure, you can argue that we have been in some fashion an Oligarchy for decades, but it's in your face now and the little guy is getting screwed by this government and lots and lots of the same little guy is cheering it on to his/her own detriment. I can only hope that we do see a major blue wave in a year and a half so that checks and balances do remain so that we see a bunch of things reversed. I'm in your independent boat, but right now, I vote blue across the board because it's so important to stop what's happening. I want to go back to voting who I think is best qualified, but I don't trust any republican right now to do the right thing. Republicans should be standing up for the Constitution and America against Trump, not allowing him to go unchecked. Even the judges that do stand up are getting attacked for not just letting Trump run rampant with his abuse of power.

As I said earlier, there is no trust between the parties. There is no real desire to work across the aisle. We are like the Sunnis and the Shias in the Middle East or like the Protestants and the Catholics in Northern Ireland.

Until someone comes along who has the charisma and leadership abilities to get both parties to work together for the common good, the dysfunction will continue. We need to pick better leaders. We need to ditch the inflammatory rhetoric. I am not interested in being party of a party that only wants to fight. That isn’t what they are being paid to do IMO. They are paid representatives for the people. All the people. Not just the ones who happen to pull the lever for them.

So until that happens, I will continue to be an independent.

 

[SaintRob]

As I said earlier, there is no trust between the parties. There is no real desire to work across the aisle. We are like the Sunnis and the Shias in the Middle East or like the Protestants and the Catholics in Northern Ireland.

Until someone comes along who has the charisma and leadership abilities to get both parties to work together for the common good, the dysfunction will continue. We need to pick better leaders. We need to ditch the inflammatory rhetoric. I am not interested in being party of a party that only wants to fight. That isn’t what they are being paid to do IMO. They are paid representatives for the people. All the people. Not just the ones who happen to pull the lever for them.

So until that happens, I will continue to be an independent.

Unfortunately we have about 35% of the US that thinks, acts, and talks like Trump while parroting and supporting whatever hate and nonsense he spews. We need smarter people, but we're having policies put in place to keep them dumb and loyal while feeding them BS propaganda that goes against science to keep them fearful and angry. We need to get rid of that guy and his loyalists that keep pumping out that BS - like Biden being executed in 2020 and replaced by a robot, or renaming the Gulf of Mexico, or annexing our strongest allies, or blaming immigrants for everything from eating pets to stealing jobs, or convincing them that tariffs aren't a tax on US citizens. See where the problem lies? Eliminating MAGA through blue voting puts the last 16 years out to pasture. Even if Trump isn't a threat to making us a dictatorship, he's a threat to the equilibrium of the US with all of the lies he perpetuates and gets people to believe - in cult-like fashion.

 

[TampaJoe]

Unfortunately we have about 35% of the US that thinks, acts, and talks like Trump while parroting and supporting whatever hate and nonsense he spews. We need smarter people, but we're having policies put in place to keep them dumb and loyal while feeding them BS propaganda that goes against science to keep them fearful and angry. We need to get rid of that guy and his loyalists that keep pumping out that BS - like Biden being executed in 2020 and replaced by a robot, or renaming the Gulf of Mexico, or annexing our strongest allies, or blaming immigrants for everything from eating pets to stealing jobs, or convincing them that tariffs aren't a tax on US citizens. See where the problem lies? Eliminating MAGA through blue voting puts the last 16 years out to pasture. Even if Trump isn't a threat to making us a dictatorship, he's a threat to the equilibrium of the US with all of the lies he perpetuates and gets people to believe - in cult-like fashion.

That may be a solution for you. It may be a solution for the 1/3 of the nation that identifies as Democrats. But what about the other 50 to 60 percent?

How is putting a party controlled by the left in charge gonna solve all the other problems facing this nation? If all you have to offer is that you aren’t Trump, that isn’t a high bar to clear. It isn’t much. People voted for Trump because they were tired of those policies and those candidates. They don’t trust the Democrats to work in their interest any more than you trust Republicans. You offer them nothing and expect them to just go along.

If you want to lead then you have to offer people what they want and that might not be what you think they want. They don’t want open borders. They want safe streets. They want law and order. They don’t want to pay more for less. They don’t what a government that tells them how to live and how to think. If you don’t understand that then you missed what they were trying to say in the last election. They didn’t vote so much for Trumps policies but against what Biden/Harris was offering them. It wasn’t working for them.

I don’t see where your party is offering workable solutions. I don’t see where your party is anymore honest or trustworthy. That what I mean when I tell you the parties are failing the electorate. They are. We need better candidates. Better solutions. All I see is Democrats offering more of the same of what people rejected in the last election.

I’m not gonna vote for that just to protest the other side.

 

[SaintRob]

If you want to lead then you have to offer people what they want and that might not be what you think they want. They don’t want open borders. They want safe streets. They want law and order. They don’t want to pay more for less. They don’t what a government that tells them how to live and how to think. If you don’t understand that then you missed what they were trying to say in the last election. They didn’t vote so much for Trumps policies but against what Biden/Harris was offering them. It wasn’t working for them.

Tariffs are the opposite of not paying more for less. If the goal of tariffs is to make those products here, there's already a reason we buy them from another country - it's cheaper. Tariffs raise the price of the cheaper overseas product and the price of a domestic product is already more expensive, which then goes up further because of increased demand. Lose - lose - lose. This isn't even an argument. It's fact and it's repeatedly failed.

Taking away reproductive rights is the government telling you how to live and think. Texas is already tracking women who leave the state for an abortion. Taking away protest rights from colleges, attacking the free press, removing LGBTQ programs, and the perception of forced patriotism and religion, are ways that MAGA is overstepping the role of government by telling people how to live and think. These are things that are the opposite of what you are talking about.

Open borders is a myth, by the way. Programs that brought immigrants in legally are being overturned by this administration. No one is going to argue about undocumented criminals being shipped out - everyone wants that, with due process. MAGA wants all poor non-white immigrants out because they typically vote blue, and the quicker the better, without due process. Productive, non-criminals are being shipped out without due process. The borders are secure. No one is letting in mass hordes with reckless abandon as some would want you to believe. It's a lie that's been told so much, that it's believed by dumb people. People are coming in for political asylum, not from insane asylums, no matter how much Trump says it.

As for why Biden/Harris lost, it's for two reasons. Joe came across as losing his faculties and there's probably some merit to that. Harris lost because she's a woman and an unliked woman at that. If Hilary couldn't beat Trump, there was no way the misogynists were going to vote for Kamala. It was a doomed campaign from the start. Trump barely won in 2024 because the middle ground wasn't inspired to vote for the democrat woman. Trump lost in 2020 because America was inspired by Biden and sick of Trump. I think the middle ground people see what's happening now and will make sure that the midterms flip the house and senate to mitigate the damage. We've seen this cycle before when one party gets too powerful.

 

[MT15]

That may be a solution for you. It may be a solution for the 1/3 of the nation that identifies as Democrats. But what about the other 50 to 60 percent?

How is putting a party controlled by the left in charge gonna solve all the other problems facing this nation? If all you have to offer is that you aren’t Trump, that isn’t a high bar to clear. It isn’t much. People voted for Trump because they were tired of those policies and those candidates. They don’t trust the Democrats to work in their interest any more than you trust Republicans. You offer them nothing and expect them to just go along.

If you want to lead then you have to offer people what they want and that might not be what you think they want. They don’t want open borders. They want safe streets. They want law and order. They don’t want to pay more for less. They don’t what a government that tells them how to live and how to think. If you don’t understand that then you missed what they were trying to say in the last election. They didn’t vote so much for Trumps policies but against what Biden/Harris was offering them. It wasn’t working for them.

I don’t see where your party is offering workable solutions. I don’t see where your party is anymore honest or trustworthy. That what I mean when I tell you the parties are failing the electorate. They are. We need better candidates. Better solutions. All I see is Democrats offering more of the same of what people rejected in the last election.

I’m not gonna vote for that just to protest the other side.

You keep addressing people who don’t agree with your both sides rhetoric as if they are Democrats. They are very often the independents you seem to think won’t support either side.

A lot of us aren’t life-long democrats. We are just horrified by what the GOP has become, which is a personality cult with no limits on what they will allow Trump to do.

At this point in our history it is incumbent on everyone to choose a side. We don’t have a viable 3rd party option. If you vote for the GOP, you are voting for Trump. For all his corruption, all his lawless behavior. There’s really no other way to see it.

 

[SaintRob]

You keep addressing people who don’t agree with your both sides rhetoric as if they are Democrats. They are very often the independents you seem to think won’t support either side.

A lot of us aren’t life-long democrats. We are just horrified by what the GOP has become, which is a personality cult with no limits on what they will allow Trump to do.

At this point in our history it is incumbent on everyone to choose a side. We don’t have a viable 3rd party option. If you vote for the GOP, you are voting for Trump. For all his corruption, all his lawless behavior. There’s really no other way to see it.

This times a billion!!! I was a republican until Bush II. I voted for him the first time, but not the second. In state elections, I still leaned right, but would vote democrat sometimes if I felt the candidate truly was the best candidate. I protest voted third party - usually libertarian - for president until Biden. He was the first democrat that I ever voted for as president. Now I vote blue across the board in protest of the republican party.

I'm ******* embarrassed by what the republican party has become and find those that have shifted with it repulsive. Where is the backbone of current republicans to stand up against the direction of the party? Silent compliance is still compliance and support. It's disgusting. I applaud the few republican congresspeople who buck the trend, and especially the Trump appointed judges - and even Amy Coney Barrett at times. She has more balls than any man who is passively compliant with the current state of the party.