Right wing nuts thread (1 Viewer)

[DaveXA]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but we need a thread for the wing nuts. Lauren Boebert.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Your opinion is your opinion.

The problem here is that you think your belief is reality when that isn’t necessarily the truth. You should live by those words instead of repeating them as if it means anything to you.

i accept your beliefs are your beliefs. I don’t see any point on a day long debate on whether Rick Scott is supportive of dismantling democracy in favor of an authoritarian form of government. If that is how you see things, then don’t vote for him or the GOP. I’m not trying to convince you otherwise. That’s up to you.

But as you pointed out, other people don’t see it that way. Why is it you cannot accept that?

Conservatives don’t want more government. They certainly don’t want a dictator or a king. To suggest otherwise is simply not reality IMO.

Both parties seek to advance their agenda and both parties can be heavy handed politically in doing so. It’s all about political power and politics. That is how this game is played in DC. That doesn’t mean democracy is threatened.

Why is it that you can't accept the possibility that you could be wrong? Your lack of intellectual curiosity on a topic as important as "is the person I voted for supporting an authoritarian that might end up, intentionally or not, dismantling democracy" is, quite frankly, pathetic.

 

[SaintRob]

I am asking you to engage in a discussion on those beliefs, because if you believe that elected GOP officials like Rick Scott are pro-democracy, and I believe they are supporting authoritarianism, clearly one of us holds a demonstrably false opinion. I am willing to examine my beliefs. Are you?

I'm in on this discussion. I think that there is a GOP shift in what a democracy/representative republic means, with an authoritarian lean. A couple of questions I would have for @TampaJoe are:

Do you think that Trump is putting policies in place that reduce or eliminate checks and balances?
Do you think that Trump is taking power / attempting to take power granted to Congress by the constitution?

 

[TampaJoe]

Why is it that you can't accept the possibility that you could be wrong? Your lack of intellectual curiosity on a topic as important as "is the person I voted for supporting an authoritarian that might end up, intentionally or not, dismantling democracy" is, quite frankly, pathetic.

Respectfully, I already understand where you stand on this topic. I have no doubts or questions. There isn’t anything for me to be curious about. I get it. You think Rick Scott and Donald Trump and pretty much the entire GOP wants to tear down Democracy and install a totalitarian regime. That about sum it up? Did I miss something in there?

I do not share your opinion so you just want to argue about it. That’s all. So let’s just cut to the chase and agree we don’t agree on this topic.

I accept that you fear for democracy. I do not share that fear. Perhaps I have more faith in our Constitution and our government institutions and what the people will accept than you. I dunno. But it is a waste of time IMO to argue over what you imagine is going on in the mind of the senior Senator of the State of Florida. I don’t think you understand him anymore than he understands you.

I worry much more about the debt and deficits, international relations, the border, the economy, education, China, Iran, Russia etc than I do about Rick Scott.

 

[TampaJoe]

I'm in on this discussion. I think that there is a GOP shift in what a democracy/representative republic means, with an authoritarian lean. A couple of questions I would have for @TampaJoe are:

Do you think that Trump is putting policies in place that reduce or eliminate checks and balances?
Do you think that Trump is taking power / attempting to take power granted to Congress by the constitution?

I think every President of late pushes those boundaries. Trump is no different. Do I fear he will topple Democracy? No. Do I agree with his tactics and his strategy? No.

Who was it that said “I have a pen and a phone”. Did you have a problem then? This is politics on a 24/7 news cycle and with social media. I don’t care for it. It is dysfunctional. Trump didn’t make it dysfunctional. He just doesn’t mind the dysfunction.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Respectfully, I already understand where you stand on this topic. I have no doubts or questions. There isn’t anything for me to be curious about. I get it. You think Rick Scott and Donald Trump and pretty much the entire GOP wants to tear down Democracy and install a totalitarian regime. That about sum it up? Did I miss something in there?

I do not share your opinion so you just want to argue about it. That’s all. So let’s just cut to the chase and agree we don’t agree on this topic.

I accept that you fear for democracy. I do not share that fear. Perhaps I have more faith in our Constitution and our government institutions and what the people will accept than you. I dunno. But it is a waste of time IMO to argue over what you imagine is going on in the mind of the senior Senator of the State of Florida. I don’t think you understand him anymore than he understands you.

I worry much more about the debt and deficits, international relations, the border, the economy, education, China, Iran, Russia etc than I do about Rick Scott.

If that doesn't sum up your entire posting history here...

If you have a belief on a topic of great importance and I have an opposing belief on that topic, isn't it worthwhile to examine why we hold those beliefs and talk about it to see which one of us is right? If I am wrong, everything we suffer through the rest of this term and go on to the next election. If you are wrong, the guardrails that protect our democracy will continue to erode as more and more power is transferred to an authoritarian manic. Don't you think that's worth examining?

 

[TampaJoe]

If that doesn't sum up your entire posting history here...

If you have a belief on a topic of great importance and I have an opposing belief on that topic, isn't it worthwhile to examine why we hold those beliefs and talk about it to see which one of us is right? If I am wrong, everything we suffer through the rest of this term and go on to the next election. If you are wrong, the guardrails that protect our democracy will continue to erode as more and more power is transferred to an authoritarian manic. Don't you think that's worth examining?

I highly doubt what either one of us believes is going to change the course of events. I also highly doubt that my support for Sen Scott will make a bit of difference.

I understand you believe Trump is a threat to Democracy. I’ve been hearing that from the time he decided to run for office. Maybe that is why Obama and Biden and Comey and Lynch decided to insert their judgement into an election process instead of trusting the people to decide for themselves. (That’s kinda an authoritarian move doncha think?)

I’ve heard all these great theories and haven’t heard one that makes sense. So if you are so concerned, explain to me how such a thing occurs under our constitution with our government institutions and the separation of power in such a way it will be accepted in a highly divided country. You guys seem to believe Trump has the power to declare it and everybody will magically go along. You guys seem to believe that Conservatives want a dictator or a king. I find all that laughable. Ridiculous. Absurd.

So unlike you, I actually have more faith in our system of government, the separation of powers, the constitution and the common sense and decency of the voters in the 50 sovereign states.

But go ahead and tell me how all this will work. Explain the conspiracy theory that makes all this happen. And then tell me a western because I will
have already heard the fairy tale.

 

[MT15]

Let’s see what GOP members say about authoritarianism. This is from a Reuters/Ipsos poll taken in April of this year.

• 23% of Republican voters said the president should defy court orders he disagrees with.
• 28% of Republican voters said the president should withhold funding from universities he disagrees with.
• 26% of Republican voters said the president should control national museums and theaters.

While not a majority of Republicans, these are shockingly high percentages of the GOP that no longer believe in our basic system of government and checks and balances.

From the article (MSNBC) following is a compilation of other recent polls. They show a pretty stark picture of the way the GOP is headed. Especially the 55% of Trump supporters who think that a strongman government without a Congress is a desirable state for this country. Nearly half of the rank and file GOP also believe a strongman government is viable. Half!!!!!

“Some might see this and feel a sense of relief, since the views are not a majority. But the flip side is true, too: The Reuters/Ipsos data suggests roughly a fourth of rank-and-file GOP voters are on board with a radical vision in which a president has authoritarian-style authority over the rule of law and civic institutions.

This comes on the heels of a recent CBS News/YouGov poll that found 44% of Republican voters said federal judges should not be allowed to review Trump’s policies.

A month earlier, The Washington Post highlighted a YouGov poll that indicated nearly half of GOP voters said that a strongman government without a Congress was at least a “fairly” good system of government. Among those who identified themselves as primarily supporters of Trump, that number climbed to 55%.

The month before that, a Pew Research Center survey found that 59% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say many of the country’s problems could be addressed more effectively if Trump “didn’t need to worry so much about Congress or the courts.””

Joe, the GOP is leaving you behind. They are no longer fiscally conservative or responsible and more closely resemble a personality cult than anything else. We simply cannot trust today’s GOP to preserve our country’s system of laws and representative government.

 

[TampaJoe]

Let’s see what GOP members say about authoritarianism. This is from a Reuters/Ipsos poll taken in April of this year.

• 23% of Republican voters said the president should defy court orders he disagrees with.
• 28% of Republican voters said the president should withhold funding from universities he disagrees with.
• 26% of Republican voters said the president should control national museums and theaters.

While not a majority of Republicans, these are shockingly high percentages of the GOP that no longer believe in our basic system of government and checks and balances.

From the article (MSNBC) following is a compilation of other recent polls. They show a pretty stark picture of the way the GOP is headed. Especially the 55% of Trump supporters who think that a strongman government without a Congress is a desirable state for this country. Nearly half of the rank and file GOP also believe a strongman government is viable. Half!!!!!

“Some might see this and feel a sense of relief, since the views are not a majority. But the flip side is true, too: The Reuters/Ipsos data suggests roughly a fourth of rank-and-file GOP voters are on board with a radical vision in which a president has authoritarian-style authority over the rule of law and civic institutions.

This comes on the heels of a recent CBS News/YouGov poll that found 44% of Republican voters said federal judges should not be allowed to review Trump’s policies.

A month earlier, The Washington Post highlighted a YouGov poll that indicated nearly half of GOP voters said that a strongman government without a Congress was at least a “fairly” good system of government. Among those who identified themselves as primarily supporters of Trump, that number climbed to 55%.

The month before that, a Pew Research Center survey found that 59% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say many of the country’s problems could be addressed more effectively if Trump “didn’t need to worry so much about Congress or the courts.””

Joe, the GOP is leaving you behind. They are no longer fiscally conservative or responsible and more closely resemble a personality cult than anything else. We simply cannot trust today’s GOP to preserve our country’s system of laws and representative government.

Thanks for the info MT. But IMO and as I have said previously, I don’t find much in the other party to inspire hope and confidence nor do I find them anymore honest and trustworthy than any other politician. Maybe you could check the polling on that. Perhaps that is why the fastest growing political movement is the voters who call themselves independents.

So do the happy dance if you choose. You don’t have all that much to crow about.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I highly doubt what either one of us believes is going to change the course of events. I also highly doubt that my support for Sen Scott will make a bit of difference.

You clearly don't know where I am coming from, then. I have no problem changing my mind when presented with something that contradicts my position. If you want to be the Ken Ham to my Bill Nye, that's on you.

I understand you believe Trump is a threat to Democracy. I’ve been hearing that from the time he decided to run for office. Maybe that is why Obama and Biden and Comey and Lynch decided to insert their judgement into an election process instead of trusting the people to decide for themselves. (That’s kinda an authoritarian move doncha think?)

Yeah, Comey put his thumb on the scale when he made that ridiculous announcement about Hilary right before the election. That really helped hurt Trump...

I’ve heard all these great theories and haven’t heard one that makes sense. So if you are so concerned, explain to me how such a thing occurs under our constitution with our government institutions and the separation of power in such a way it will be accepted in a highly divided country. You guys seem to believe Trump has the power to declare it and everybody will magically go along. You guys seem to believe that Conservatives want a dictator or a king. I find all that laughable. Ridiculous. Absurd.

Yet reality disagrees with you. It is actively happening. Senate republicans are confirming grossly unqualified nominations to incredibly important positions, for example. Government agencies are being crippled, grants are being withheld, and not a single republican member of congress is doing a thing to stop it.

So unlike you, I actually have more faith in our system of government, the separation of powers, the constitution and the common sense and decency of the voters in the 50 sovereign states.

When one body willingly cedes power to another, the powers are no longer separate. When one body cedes power to another, there is no longer balance and no checks left to be made.

But go ahead and tell me how all this will work. Explain the conspiracy theory that makes all this happen. And then tell me a western because I will
have already heard the fairy tale.

I mean... it's actually happening. I am more than happy to give examples and have this conversation, but you've already said you won't change your mind, so what's the point?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Thanks for the info MT. But IMO and as I have said previously, I don’t find much in the other party to inspire hope and confidence nor do I find them anymore honest and trustworthy than any other politician. Maybe you could check the polling on that. Perhaps that is why the fastest growing political movement is the voters who call themselves independents.

So do the happy dance if you choose. You don’t have all that much to crow about.

Your apathetic bothsidesism is noted. And really frigging pathetic.

 

[TampaJoe]

You clearly don't know where I am coming from, then. I have no problem changing my mind when presented with something that contradicts my position. If you want to be the Ken Ham to my Bill Nye, that's on you.



Yeah, Comey put his thumb on the scale when he made that ridiculous announcement about Hilary right before the election. That really helped hurt Trump...



Yet reality disagrees with you. It is actively happening. Senate republicans are confirming grossly unqualified nominations to incredibly important positions, for example. Government agencies are being crippled, grants are being withheld, and not a single republican member of congress is doing a thing to stop it.



When one body willingly cedes power to another, the powers are no longer separate. When one body cedes power to another, there is no longer balance and no checks left to be made.



I mean... it's actually happening. I am more than happy to give examples and have this conversation, but you've already said you won't change your mind, so what's the point?

And you won’t change yours. Said that several posts back. Now you have caught up. We simply don’t agree.

That’s okay. It will be all right. The world will still be spinning tomorrow.

 

[TampaJoe]

Your apathetic bothsidesism is noted. And really frigging pathetic.

Truth hurts. Ignore it if it is painful to you.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

And you won’t change yours. Said that several posts back. Now you have caught up. We simply don’t agree.

That’s okay. It will be all right. The world will still be spinning tomorrow.

Where did I say that? Show me.

 

[TampaJoe]

Where did I say that? Show me.

I said several posts back that neither one of us will change our minds. And here we are. Right where I said we would be.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I said several posts back that neither one of us will change our minds. And here we are. Right where I said we would be.

Ah, gotcha. The difference is that I am willing to change my mind if presented with evidence. You aren't.

 

[TampaJoe]

Ah, gotcha. The difference is that I am willing to change my mind if presented with evidence. You aren't.

Yeah. Sure you are. Nice try. As we say in the south “that dawg don’t hunt”.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Yeah. Sure you are. Nice try. As we say in the south “that dawg don’t hunt”.

You think Tampa is the south. Bless your heart.

You would know if I am willing to change my mind if you actually presented arguments, but you don't have any of those.

Those who know me know that I used to be conservative and, at one point in my life, considered myself to be libertarian.

Then I grew up and learned about the world outside of my bubble.

 

[TampaJoe]

You think Tampa is the south. Bless your heart.

You would know if I am willing to change my mind if you actually presented arguments, but you don't have any of those.

Those who know me know that I used to be conservative and, at one point in my life, considered myself to be libertarian.

Then I grew up and learned about the world outside of my bubble.

Grew up in Tennessee. That’s about as Southern as it gets. Go Vols.

Tampa is a recent move.

As for your conversion in ideology, good for you. Whatever works for you.