Requiring Vaccination (2 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

We are moving into a new phase of the pandemic, one of partial vaccination. Though there’s good legal authority that the US or states could require all inhabitants get a vaccine, that’s almost certainly not going to happen for several compelling reasons.

But governments could require vaccination for certain specific applications such as public employment, public school attendance, or travel. Commercial/private interests have even more leeway to require it: airlines could choose to require it, employers could choose to require it, event venues or promoters could choose to require it. Some, in fact, are already making plans on how a vaccination requirement would work.

But it’s complicated - there are a host of considerations that go with it. From the very practical issue of how to best evidence vaccination for these purposes (right now all we really have are low-tech, easily forged vaccination cards), to accessibility questions (how to accommodate those who legitimately should not or cannot get vaccinated), to more deeply fundamental concerns of individual self-determination in society, these components are challenging and are not easily answered. Some arbitrariness is most certainly going to come from this, and people are going to get angry.

So what do you think? Would you be okay with TSA requiring proof of vaccination to fly? Is it different if it isn’t TSA but the major airlines make it their policy? What about the Superdome requiring it to go to Saints games? What about private employers?

And what’s the best solution for proof? Since government hasn’t really focused on this, can we expect some business to come up with a vaccine verify app that becomes the industry standard?

It’s all really interesting stuff.



Atlantic article about the proof issue:

A Better Solution Than Laminating Your Vaccine Card

Political grandstanding about vaccine passports serves no one.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[SystemShock]

Did you actually read the rest?

The rest of what?

 

[wardorican]

The rest of what?

You only quoted about a third of what I said. So, I'm trying to understand your point and if it only applies to the part you quoted, but not the rest.

I think using the totality of evidence at this time, the two mRNA vaccines do a better job of preventing infections. While all vaccines to a great job of preventing hospitalizations and death.

 

[SystemShock]

You only quoted about a third of what I said. So, I'm trying to understand your point and if it only applies to the part you quoted, but not the rest.

I think using the totality of evidence at this time, the two mRNA vaccines do a better job of preventing infections. While all vaccines to a great job of preventing hospitalizations and death.

I only quoted a 3rd because that's all I needed to quote. Whether trials or results observed so far (what you call totality of evidence) the same principle applies; percentages don't tell the whole story.

 

[The Other Liberal]

I don't think the government should require people to get the vaccine. That's going too far for me. But this thing isn't over and we're going back to normal in most places like it is. Maybe if employers required it then things would be different. Where I live and work most people oppose mask mandates, social distancing, closures, and they have not been vaccinated. To them COVID 19 has been blown out of proportion to justify more government control. If government required vaccinations these people would not obey. How would you make them ? But if employers imposed it they would go a long grudgingly. Moreover it's not just a political issue. There is a racial dynamic. I have not heard a single white person mention someone they know who died from the virus. However me and lot's of blacks know personally at least one person who has died from COVID 19.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

CoVid vax or all Vax? I doubt they will be required completely, but no vaccine is.
I have no problem with business/work places requiring it. I have no problem with it being treated like all other vax that are required to an extent.. I know a few that have died (not close but I did know who they were, family of friends or friends of family. heck, even a well known SR poster.)

 

[wardorican]

I only quoted a 3rd because that's all I needed to quote. Whether trials or results observed so far (what you call totality of evidence) the same principle applies; percentages don't tell the whole story.

Well, since I didn't only rely on percentages, I don't know what to tell you.

I never said that percentages tell the whole story. They do tell a lot of it, and especially as more studies have been done as time goes on.

So, do you think the J&J vaccine is similar to the other vaccines in terms of transmission risk, or that it is slightly inferior?

 

[MT15]

I don't think the government should require people to get the vaccine. That's going too far for me. But this thing isn't over and we're going back to normal in most places like it is. Maybe if employers required it then things would be different. Where I live and work most people oppose mask mandates, social distancing, closures, and they have not been vaccinated. To them COVID 19 has been blown out of proportion to justify more government control. If government required vaccinations these people would not obey. How would you make them ? But if employers imposed it they would go a long grudgingly. Moreover it's not just a political issue. There is a racial dynamic. I have not heard a single white person mention someone they know who died from the virus. However me and lot's of blacks know personally at least one person who has died from COVID 19.

This white person had a neighbor die from COVID, a lovely 70 year old retired elementary principal, also white. So now you have heard of at least one

I do realize that disadvantaged communities and lower wage employees were harder hit, but no group escaped untouched.

For whatever reason, though, a lot of people in my community don’t hear much about the deaths and/or hospitalizations. Before our neighbor died, one of my other neighbors was surprised to find out that we still had people locally in the hospital with COVID. She thought after the first wave we were basically done with it. Our town had a child die two weeks ago, fitting the age category of “under five”. We’ve had several children of about that age hospitalized recently, per friends who still work in the hospital. My own daughter was shocked when she learned this, as she thought kids were basically unaffected.

There’s just not enough real knowledge out there about what is happening.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Posted in EE also
===================

America's anti-maskers have become America's anti-vaxxers.

Their argument against these common-sense precautions is personal freedom. The only problem with this logic, or lack thereof, is that their claims to freedom are causing the rest of us to lose ours.

It would be nice to be able to dine inside with no worry, go to the movies in a packed theater, or enjoy any of the other freedoms we enjoyed before the pandemic. But that will be impossible to do with the threat of COVID - unless we reach a certain threshold of the population who are vaccinated, probably around 80%. Who is preventing us from reaching that threshold? The 1 in 4 Americans who say they'll refuse to get vaccinated.

Cat scratch fever​

You've heard GOP Rep. Jim Jordan pounding the table, asking when we're going to live our lives again. In a recent congressional hearing with Dr. Anthony Fauci, Jordan demanded to know the precise moment the world will be back to normal and harangued the infectious disease specialist about basic safety measures. By undermining Dr. Fauci, Jordan is in turn undermining our efforts to get back to normal. As Dr. Fauci expressed, it's a paradox that Republicans legislators simply cannot seem to wrap their minds around.

You've heard Sen. Ron Johnson talk double-talk on vaccines. He asked "what is the point" of getting vaccinated, undermining our attempts to reach herd immunity. By spewing this inane rhetoric, he's all but ensuring that some followers of his in Wisconsin remain unvaccinated and get COVID.

Studies show that many vaccine-hesitant folks are in a 'wait-and-see' pattern and aren't completely writing off the vaccine. A positive pronouncement from their trusted elected officials or a celebrity they admire could make a world of difference. But instead of that, we get people like Jordan, Johnson, and faded rockstar Ted Nugent.

I'll admit, I had a moment of schadenfreude when Nugent got COVID and whined about how bad it was. He said "it was really scary" and that he "didn't know if [he] was gonna make it." And, of course, he is right. COVID is scary, and nearly 600,000 of his fellow citizens weren't as lucky as he and didn't make it. But he remains a poster child of all "freedom-loving" COVID-deniers: anti-mask, anti-vax and making the country suffer as a result..............

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Hamish Howl]

I don't think the vaccine should be forced on anyone.

I just feel that if people DO refuse it, they should have their doors nailed shut and painted yellow, like in the old days.

 

[The moose]

I don't think the government should require people to get the vaccine. That's going too far for me. But this thing isn't over and we're going back to normal in most places like it is. Maybe if employers required it then things would be different. Where I live and work most people oppose mask mandates, social distancing, closures, and they have not been vaccinated. To them COVID 19 has been blown out of proportion to justify more government control. If government required vaccinations these people would not obey. How would you make them ? But if employers imposed it they would go a long grudgingly. Moreover it's not just a political issue. There is a racial dynamic. I have not heard a single white person mention someone they know who died from the virus. However me and lot's of blacks know personally at least one person who has died from COVID 19.

Well I hate to tell you I know more than a handful of people that died. I know lots of people in the service industry and in a town with tourist. 6 split down the middle three black and three white and a couple that did not even get their parent tested after they passed.

Lots of factors has to do with spread but the lack of a super event like Mardi Gras with millions of people showing up for an event huge outbreaks happened in the workplace for most other areas.

A quick Google search gave me the three largest employers in your state are in the health care industry. In fact six out of ten top employers are in health care. That certainly helped not spread the virus. If you go further down that list 12 out of 20 are heath or retirement homes. That certainly has a ton to do with how your state feels when 12 of the states top employers took it seriously.

What needs to get out is the reasons your neighbors are not really feeling the same as other states. Then when you look at deaths your state still has almost 7k. On the brighter side I am sure twelve of your states top employers will make the vaccine mandatory

overdose is still your states biggest problem by leaps and bounds the other is what are you gonna do for money when the boomers are gone? The entire states economy is f250s and milking Medicare and the kids are dropping at a staggering rate.

After looking up employers and opioid crap in your state what the heck is mitch doing for you?

 

[wardorican]

I don't think the government should require people to get the vaccine. That's going too far for me. But this thing isn't over and we're going back to normal in most places like it is. Maybe if employers required it then things would be different. Where I live and work most people oppose mask mandates, social distancing, closures, and they have not been vaccinated. To them COVID 19 has been blown out of proportion to justify more government control. If government required vaccinations these people would not obey. How would you make them ? But if employers imposed it they would go a long grudgingly. Moreover it's not just a political issue. There is a racial dynamic. I have not heard a single white person mention someone they know who died from the virus. However me and lot's of blacks know personally at least one person who has died from COVID 19.

IJS.... maybe you just don't know enough white people. And also, fractionally, it's still not a huge number of deaths in Kentucky. Just over 6600 total. And the % deaths by race are pretty close to the actual demographics of the area... within a percent.

 

[superchuck500]

Here’s an angle.

 

[Farb]

Here’s an angle.

There will be a lawsuit on this I would think.

 

[brandon]

There will be a lawsuit on this I would think.

It will lose.

 

[wardorican]

There will be a lawsuit on this I would think.

I'd think it would be similar to a military discount. Except in this case, it's much easier to get a vaccine.

 

[MT15]

Yeah, I’m not seeing how the pricing would be illegal. Maybe someone could explain how that would work?

 

[JRad]

Yeah, I’m not seeing how the pricing would be illegal. Maybe someone could explain how that would work?

Because people who refuse to get vaccinated think “things I want to do” are legally protected.

 

[CoolBrees]

@Farb -

I am genuinely interested:

What would the concert venue be sued for exactly?

They can charge whatever they want to whoever they want. It is a private business.

Just because you don’t like the policy doesn’t make it illegal or civilly damaging.

This is the free market that you love so much at work.