Republicans moving ahead with Trump’s ‘big’ bill of tax breaks (2 Viewers)

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Republicans moving ahead with Trump's 'big' bill of tax breaks and spending cuts amid tariff uproar

After a long wait, the Senate is launching action on President Donald Trump’s ”“big, beautiful bill” of tax breaks and spending cuts.

apnews.com

More than a month after House Republicans surprised Washington by advancing their framework for Trump’s $4.5 trillion in tax breaks and $2 trillion in spending cuts, Senate Republicans voted Thursday to start working on their version. The largely party-line vote, 52-48, sets the stage for a potential Senate all-nighter Friday spilling into the weekend.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

That is simplistic. It was more than reverse engineering, which is slow and difficult. That is only one of their approaches, but everyone does that. Everyone doesn’t flagrantly steal like China.

It's simplistic but it's still mostly what they have done in the tech sector. Their IP theft has been more in luxuries, like entertainment and fashion. Think about this, if China is relying on stealing our technology, then how can they ever surpass our technology?

There are teams of highly advanced reverse engineers all over the planet that can figure out how to recreate something in a matter of days. Circuitry in particular is quick and easy to reverse engineer because you can see the circuits and components.

The difficulty with reverse engineering computer chips, for instance, is not reverse engineering new circuitry, the difficulty is in the manufacturing process. China has that same difficulty if they just flat out copy someone else's circuit design. There's no significant production time advantaged gained copying technology than there is by reverse engineering.

Reverse engineering isn't IP theft, because they always tweak things just enough so that it's not covered by any IP filings.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

You are correct. Corporate greed has hurt America, but it has also helped more on balance.

You including corporate greed trying to stage a coup and install a dictator in that on balance equation? They've already tried it once that we know of.

The US has done many things that are no longer acceptable since WW2.

We didn't stop after WW2. We just used different cover stories and excuses. Just 8 years after WW2 ended, we helped overthrow the democratically elected government of Iran. Do you know the true reason that we did it? We did it for petroleum billionaires. We haven't changed as much as you think we have. US foreign policy still very much serves the interests of billionaires more than it does our security, world peace and stability.

I’m just saying that China has been practicing these unacceptable practices for the last few decades, and today they are our greatest threat.

The biggest threat to the survival of our democracy is from billionaires right here at home. Not once has the military or intelligence community said that China threatens to conquer us and take away our democracy. The threats that the military and intelligence say that China is a threat to our global power and influence as the planet's most dominant super power. China cannot conquer the US and no other country can, because we have a nuclear arsenal that cannot be preemptively destroyed in total. As long as other countries know a single nuke will survive a preemptive strike, they will never attack us here on our soil.

We will never use nukes on a coup from within our own borders, so the only threat to overthrow our democracy comes from right here at home and it doesn't come from any foreign government or entity. It comes from the billionaires and Christian fanatics who can never have enough power and control over everything, including all of us.

Other countries may also employ these practices, but they are less of a threat.

Please explain how China goes about invading us and overthrowing our democracy? How are they going to do that when we have the nuclear arsenal we have?

 

[Lapaz]

You including corporate greed trying to stage a coup and install a dictator in that on balance equation? They've already tried it once that we know of.


We didn't stop after WW2. We just used different cover stories and excuses. Just 8 years after WW2 ended, we helped overthrow the democratically elected government of Iran. Do you know the true reason that we did it? We did it for petroleum billionaires. We haven't changed as much as you think we have. US foreign policy still very much serves the interests of billionaires more than it does our security, world peace and stability.


The biggest threat to the survival of our democracy is from billionaires right here at home. Not once has the military or intelligence community said that China threatens to conquer us and take away our democracy. The threats that the military and intelligence say that China is a threat to our global power and influence as the planet's most dominant super power. China cannot conquer the US and no other country can, because we have a nuclear arsenal that cannot be preemptively destroyed in total. As long as other countries know a single nuke will survive a preemptive strike, they will never attack us here on our soil.

We will never use nukes on a coup from within our own borders, so the only threat to overthrow our democracy comes from right here at home and it doesn't come from any foreign government or entity. It comes from the billionaires and Christian fanatics who can never have enough power and control over everything, including all of us.

Please explain how China goes about invading us and overthrowing our democracy? How are they going to do that when we have the nuclear arsenal we have?

You are wrong. Our intel agencies think China is making plans to assure they can win before they act. Taiwan will be taken once they are confident. China’s takeover is unlikely to be a traditional attack on America. It is insidious. At least tech bros need us. China is planning for a future where they don’t. We’re currently just their useful idiots.

Where is your proof that the tech bros organized January 6th?

 

[MT15]

You are wrong. Our intel agencies think China is making plans to assure they can win before they act. Taiwan will be taken once they are confident. China’s takeover is unlikely to be a traditional attack on America. It is insidious. At least tech bros need us. China is planning for a future where they don’t. We’re currently just their useful idiots.

Where is your proof that the tech bros organized January 6th?

The tech bros are a very serious threat as is China. China needs us at least as much as the tech bros.

I don’t think China wants to convert the US government into a theocratic oligarchy. All they want is to sell us stuff and have us be less strong on the world stage - that seems to be what Trump wants as well.

The tech bros want to end the US as a representative democracy.

 

[SamAndreas]

I disagree that they have just observed. They’ve stolen tech for decades, not just observed our tech. It is not a red herring. The discussion led to China because of outlawing some of their tech. That does serve our tech bros, but it also serves a legitimate national security threat. Others only ascribe those laws to tech bros controlling our politicians, but those bros don’t control our professional intelligence services. The threat is real. The solution to outlaw their tech may not eliminate the threat, but it is one of the only options.

I didn't say that China has just been observing us, . I didn't even use the word "observing" in my post at all. And I did mention that after seeing something they copied it. See-then-Copy. Here's what I said:

Lapaz China is making use of a basic human cognitive ability humans have to be able to copy the activities they see other humans doing.

I copy what I see others doing, and then I am able to do what they do.

Wind blows, and sea waves crash onto shore lines, and Chinese people will continue to do as all the rest of us also do. Copying what other humans do is a human basic behaviour.

I am what I've seen others do, and you are what you've seen others do.

My point being what you've said above is a red herring. It was something else, it was not a Chinese theft.

 

[J-DONK]

The tech bros are a very serious threat as is China. China needs us at least as much as the tech bros.

I don’t think China wants to convert the US government into a theocratic oligarchy. All they want is to sell us stuff and have us be less strong on the world stage - that seems to be what Trump wants as well.

The tech bros want to end the US as a representative democracy.

The biggest issue with a China vs Taiwan war is 3 Gorges. Bascially, China has to be 100% Taiwan can't hit that damn. In my mind, it's the biggest deterrent to an invasion.

China's most ideal scenario would be a further weakening of America democracy, and soft-power WHILE continuing to trade at the same or higher levels.

I honestly don't know if we get out of this. It's the 1920's over again, but this time the Barron's control all brain-rotting algo's slop for the kids, and the boomers all watch Fox News. It's so much disinformation.

They've got the masses believing the problem is a horde of brown people coming over the border, and not unseen levels of inequality. In fact, they made equality a dirty word to 1/3 of the country.

 

[SamAndreas]

Disgusting…but this is not surprising coming from her.

She's the kind who could go bear hunting with nothing but a willow switch.

She could curdle milk just by looking at it.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I haven't been able to find confirmation of that, but I really hope it's true.

Two provisions added to the bill just days ago — and tailored specifically to boost Medicaid payments to Alaska and Hawaii — have been ruled to violate the Senate’s Byrd rule. That limits what can pass through the reconciliation process with a simple majority.


GOP leaders had hoped the Medicaid provisions focused on non-contiguous states, along with other Alaska-friendly changes, would be enough to win the vote of Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska). She had voiced concerns over deep cuts to Medicaid and the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP).
Murkowski voted to move forward with the bill Saturday night after making committee chairs and leadership sweat.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/06/29/megabill-byrd-alaska-megabill-parliamentarian-00431730

 

[MT15]

Here is Peter Thiel being unable to say unequivocally that he wants the human race to endure. IMO he wants to influence who endures and who doesn’t.

 

[SamAndreas]

The biggest issue with a China vs Taiwan war is 3 Gorges. Bascially, China has to be 100% Taiwan can't hit that damn. In my mind, it's the biggest deterrent to an invasion.

China's most ideal scenario would be a further weakening of America democracy, and soft-power WHILE continuing to trade at the same or higher levels.

I honestly don't know if we get out of this. It's the 1920's over again, but this time the Barron's control all brain-rotting algo's slop for the kids, and the boomers all watch Fox News. It's so much disinformation.

They've got the masses believing the problem is a horde of brown people coming over the border, and not unseen levels of inequality. In fact, they made equality a dirty word to 1/3 of the country.

I don't know J-Donk I looked that 3 gorges dam up and it looks very strong to me. Strong enough that I would think it would take a nuclear bomb dropped in the water in front of the dam, and set off when it hit the bottom. It would be the a pressure wave from the water which would break the dam.

However when I was looking the dam up find out that I also saw a youtube video which said on it's splash screen: "The Dam That Could End Civilization: Three Gorges Dam."

It appears that this video may have been the source for for the idea that wild idea that the biggest issue with a war between the two is that dam. At about one minuet in that video they show a simulation of three jets flying from Taiwan to the dam and then they say It would be like Taiwan would have an atomic bomb.

I think Taiwan would need an atomic bomb to take out that dam, which would then be like they had an atomic bomb.

The video struck me as being over the top, and shrill. Made of nonsense, I didn't watch all of it.



That dam is about a thousand miles from Taiwan, it would out of range of Taiwan's F-16's which have a 340 mile combat operational range.

They also have French Mirage 2000 jets, and they almost have enough range if it were a high altitude cakewalk to fly over half of China. But it wouldn't be a cakewalk, they would have to fly low and fast, and maneuver, that would reduce the rance so much that they couldn't reach that target either without air to air refueling over the Chinese mainland.

Those aircraft couldn't carry a bomb large enough to budge that dam.

 

[MT15]

 

[Bolo]

This bill, when it passes, barring something crazy in the actual voting process, will re-energize Democratic party for 2026. Screwing with peoples healthcare will come back to bite them.

 

[J-DONK]

I don't know J-Donk I looked that 3 gorges dam up and it looks very strong to me. Strong enough that I would think it would take a nuclear bomb dropped in the water in front of the dam, and set off when it hit the bottom. It would be the a pressure wave from the water which would break the dam.

However when I was looking the dam up find out that I also saw a youtube video which said on it's splash screen: "The Dam That Could End Civilization: Three Gorges Dam."

It appears that this video may have been the source for for the idea that wild idea that the biggest issue with a war between the two is that dam. At about one minuet in that video they show a simulation of three jets flying from Taiwan to the dam and then they say It would be like Taiwan would have an atomic bomb.

I think Taiwan would need an atomic bomb to take out that dam, which would then be like they had an atomic bomb.

The video struck me as being over the top, and shrill. Made of nonsense, I didn't watch all of it.



That dam is about a thousand miles from Taiwan, it would out of range of Taiwan's F-16's which have a 340 mile combat operational range.

They also have French Mirage 2000 jets, and they almost have enough range if it were a high altitude cakewalk to fly over half of China. But it wouldn't be a cakewalk, they would have to fly low and fast, and maneuver, that would reduce the rance so much that they couldn't reach that target either without air to air refueling over the Chinese mainland.

Those aircraft couldn't carry a bomb large enough to budge that dam.

No one knows how many bombs would it take, but here ya go as far as what can hit it:

Yun Feng - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SamAndreas]

No one knows how many bombs would it take, but here ya go as far as what can hit it:

Yun Feng - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes that appears to have the range. They started making and deploying them them last year, but apparently they have fewer than 200 of them sofar.

They only have 500 lb warhead. I doubt that they could harm that dam very much if at all without a much larger warhead.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

You are wrong. Our intel agencies think China is making plans to assure they can win before they act.

You are wrong about that my friend and not listening to what they are actually saying.

Anti-access prevents an advancing military force from entering an area, and area denial limits a force's freedom of action within an area.

"What they have not accounted for is our ability to provide access through multidomain operations from the land," Clark said, referring to the Army's multidomain task force deterrence concept that prizes operating in space, cyberspace, electronic warfare, information operations and employing long-range fires.

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/4229124/army-works-to-deter-chinese-threats-while-supporting-joint-force-allies-partners/

Synopsis
US Air Force leaders are alarmed by China's growing missile capabilities and its development of a sophisticated "kill web" for targeting US forces. Experts suggest a full-scale invasion of Taiwan is unlikely due to high risks. Instead, China might opt for coercive measures like blockades and political warfare to achieve its objectives, according to a Stimson Center seminar.

US Air Force sounds alarm on China's missile arsenal and 'Kill Web' threat

US Air Force leaders are alarmed by China's growing missile capabilities and its development of a sophisticated "kill web" for targeting US forces. Experts suggest a full-scale invasion of Taiwan is unlikely due to high risks. Instead, China might opt for coercive measures like blockades and...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Taiwan will be taken once they are confident.

They will definitely move on Taiwan if they are ever confident they can take and hold it without heavy losses. That's been the case for 50 years.

China’s takeover is unlikely to be a traditional attack on America. It is insidious.

100% irrational and propaganda fueled fear. The Sith aren't real, but you see to think they are.

At least tech bros need us.

They don't need us to be free and they don't want us free.

China is planning for a future where they don’t.

I'd laugh it this wasn't so paranoid.

We’re currently just their useful idiots.

Where is your proof that the tech bros organized January 6th?

Strange that you ask, because I never said they organized January 6th. Since you ask, facebook and twitter both intentionally amplified that the election was stolen and amplified calls to "stop the steal." Several messaging apps let people organize the attack on their platforms. If you think they don't monitor whatever they want whenever they want, then you need to re-read their TOS of service very carefully and have pen and paper so you can trace out all of the internal referencing.

Your turn. Explain how China takes us over without a military, including cyber, attack?

How do they prevent getting nuked by the US to hell and back if we start to fall because of their "insidious" ways? What are those "insidious" ways? You really should study the very dark history of xenophobia and jingoism, because that's the dark path your mistaken opinions are going to take you to.

You do know that some of the American billionaire tech bros are of Chinese, other Asian, south and central American and Middle Eastern descent, don't you?

You do know that Musk's family were and are supporters of apartheid, don't you?

You do know that Peter Thiel has said that the Nazi's critique of liberal democracy applies to the US today, don't you? But saying that the arguments that Nazi's used to justify the take over Germany applies to the US is not a threat, right?

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Here is Peter Thiel being unable to say unequivocally that he wants the human race to endure. IMO he wants to influence who endures and who doesn’t.

In a video interview he has said that he thinks the Nazi's criticism of liberal democracy in Germany applies to the US today. I mean, if that doesn't open your eyes, then you either never will or you are onboard with destroying our democracy.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Yes that appears to have the range. They started making and deploying them them last year, but apparently they have fewer than 200 of them sofar.

They only have 500 lb warhead. I doubt that they could harm that dam very much if at all without a much larger warhead.

That water is exerting a tremendous amount of force on the damn. The slightest fracture, even at a microscopic level could cause the damns eventual collapse. Even though the final catastrophic stage of a damn's collapse makes it seem like a sudden event, it's not. The failure starts before the final collapse and is often not detectable until nothing can be done to save the damn.

 

[SamAndreas]

That water is exerting a tremendous amount of force on the damn. The slightest fracture, even at a microscopic level could cause the damns eventual collapse. Even though the final catastrophic stage of a damn's collapse makes it seem like a sudden event, it's not. The failure starts before the final collapse and is often not detectable until nothing can be done to save the damn.

The Chinese 3 gorges dam is 594 feet high, by 7661 ft long

For comparison the Oroville dam north of me here in California is 770 ft high, by 6920 ft long.

This link explains the way that total force is calculated. The variables are the depth of the water at the face of the dam and, the length of the dam. I don't know the current depth of the water but I do know what the maximum depth is, and it's less that the height by a bit.

Solving for the Force Exerted on a Dam by Water

Solving for the Force Exerted on a Dam by Water: (Image of dam)

www.instructables.com

The size of the lake behind the dam or the amount of water it holds doesn't matter, they are not variables for the force equation.

The formula to calculate the force on the face of the dam is fairly simple, I could run the number through the equation and then compare the total force. But what I want to know is how do the forces compare between the 3 Gorges dam and the Oroville dam and that is a whole lot easier than running the big numbers through that force equation for each dam. For that comparison the length variable can also be ignored. I will calculate the ratio of force on Oroville Dam as compared to the 3 Gorges Dam.

It's a simple ratio of the dams height 770 / 594 = 1.296 The Oroville dam near me is under approximately 1.3 times more force than the 3 Gorges dam is because it is 1.3 times higher, has 1.3 times the water depth.

The Orville is an old earthen dam, and the 3 gorges is a modern concrete dam. The 3 gorges dam capacity is 32 million acre-feet of water, while the Oroville dam capacity is more, at 35 million acre-feet of water.

All in all Lake Oroville is a larger lake, and the dam is under 1.3 times more force than the 3 Gorges dam.