Republicans moving ahead with Trump’s ‘big’ bill of tax breaks (4 Viewers)

[zztop]

Republicans moving ahead with Trump's 'big' bill of tax breaks and spending cuts amid tariff uproar

After a long wait, the Senate is launching action on President Donald Trump’s ”“big, beautiful bill” of tax breaks and spending cuts.

apnews.com

More than a month after House Republicans surprised Washington by advancing their framework for Trump’s $4.5 trillion in tax breaks and $2 trillion in spending cuts, Senate Republicans voted Thursday to start working on their version. The largely party-line vote, 52-48, sets the stage for a potential Senate all-nighter Friday spilling into the weekend.

 

[Huntn]

That China makes cheap knockoffs of Western products is not in question.
But making cheap knockoffs didn't make China leaders in EV's and EV batteries, or manufacturing methods/production lines, or be able to build a hospital in 7 days while physically moving the building from one place to another.

Go look at the suspension of the BYD Yangwang U models. Tell me which Western car manufacturer offers anything similar. While people in the U.S. think Hummer's crab driving is cool, BYD is making cars that can tank roll, park sideways by themselves, drive on 3 tires, even jump over bumps/potholes by themselves. Whose tech did they steal or reverse-engineer?

It wasn't really a surprise in many places, but now everyone knows that Western companies have been using Chinese manufacturing and passing their merchandise as being made in that brand's place of origin, including many products that boast "Made in the USA" labels (Trump tries to mask his products by including labels like "Designed in Oregon"). Their manufacturing is just not cheaper, it is more efficient that any other in the world. And its not because they are stealing or reverse engineering production lines in the West.

I have believed this for 4 decades, that capitalism has screwed us, that it’s the people who are actually doing the manufacturing, who have gained the expertise, the knowledge to innovate, and who made most of the money (look at China’s National bank account) and are the ones that are learning and know how to innovate. This was handed to them on a golden platter, while we Ladida stumbled along our current path to failure, Our capitalist system leadership sold us out to enrich themselves, disenfranchising citizens and their own marketplace to suck out as much wealth before the degraded market, and likely collapse they orchestrated. It’s time to stop fooling ourselves. Of course, all this had to happen with hard-core environmental degradation and there’s a good argument that the world is gonna go down as we know it. Maybe that’s our destiny.

 

[Optimus Prime]

NSFW

 

[Huntn]

I think the state of California will fill any gaps left by Trump and the Republicans. They stepped up for us when the Afforable Care Act was weakened. There's a reason we call it Medi-Cal instead of just Medicaid.

I've been trying to talk my father into moving here to CA, because if he did then Medi-Cal would cover nursing home care if he needs it and they would allow him to keep his property in LA. CA has either stopped or will soon stop considering assets as disqualifying for long term care coverage. He won't even consider it, because he's determined to die in his house. I hope it works out for him that way, but it's not looking like it will.

California is one of the most expensive states but there’s also a saying you get what you pay for.

 

[Huntn]

I would also add that people in general don’t realize how many middle class people rely on Medicaid to pay for their parents’ nursing home care, for one example. Or their special needs kids’ therapies.

Middle class people will also feel it when their local hospital or clinic closes.

The GOP is just a death cult. They want poor people to just die. And they want to get rid of all immigrants no matter who is hurt or dies in the process. It’s hard to imagine how really bad these politicians are.

Not only are they a death cult, but we the people are their sheep who in 70m cases are willinglyheading down the chute to be sheared or slaughtered, because I’m not happy to say it, we are dumb as rocks. Unless I see a turnaround in two years, I think it’s our destiny or maybe it’s easier to think this was a pre-ordain simulation we’re living through.

 

[SFIDC3]

Please explain how China goes about invading us and overthrowing our democracy? How are they going to do that when we have the nuclear arsenal we have?

This is the total fallacy to this argument.....we make China money, we are a huge consumer base for them, why in the world would they want to change that? Hint - I really don't think they do......

 

[SamAndreas]

I disagree with your estimation, because many of the negative impacts of many of the provisions that will affect healthcare for a majority of us Americans will be felt in a matter of months. Those adverse impacts will be what the majority of us Americans find the most unforgivable. People will start dying or significantly suffering in a matter of months if the bill is passed.

Parents with special needs children will be suffering along with their children in a matter of months.

Those that don't suffer right away will know they will suffer down the line. Nobody needs to tell them that, they already painfully know it. The Democrats don't have to tell those who suffer later that they will suffer later.

It's moot now. The senate voted it down.

LA, I'm a parent with special needs children, and I've been working that system for years. My experience says It takes a long time for changes made in a bill in Washington, which cause changes to be made in states, eventually reach the people in a couple of years. Obamacare took 2 years to be enacted both federally, and by the states.

There's a poem for this: "Though the mills of God grind slowly; Yet they grind exceeding small; Though with patience He stands waiting, With exactness grinds He all."

 

[SamAndreas]

This is the total fallacy to this argument.....we make China money, we are a huge consumer base for them, why in the world would they want to change that? Hint - I really don't think they do......

Agreed, "In times of trouble, in times of doubt, run in circles, scream and shout."

China is one of the few great countries in the world, who with a long history behind them has not been one to not involve themselves in many wars of aggression.

They have had bad border disputes with nextdoor neighbors, but to reach out and attack a country this far from their borders they not done that during something like a thousand years. I'd hate to be in Mongolia or Taiwan, but this far away I feel safe.

Their Great War, What they call the "Great War" was with us, it was the Korean war. We don't count that one as being a great war. They didn't jump into that one first, we did. It was our fault. They jumped in that war because we did.

 

[zztop]

My experience says It takes a long time for changes made in a bill in Washington, which cause changes to be made in states, eventually reach the people in a couple of years. Obamacare took 2 years to be enacted both federally, and by the states.

So... almost right about the time when Democrats (maybe) re-take the house and presidency... only to then (probably) get blamed for all this shirt (which will then swing republicans back into power)

 

[SamAndreas]

California is one of the most expensive states but there’s also a saying you get what you pay for.

Huntn, if I'm not mistaken Rivendell, where you live, is just a wee bit north of San Francisco isn't it?

I think I've heard that the folks there keep stealing the highway road signs marking the place, such that it's a hard place for outsiders to find.

 

[Bolo]

So... almost right about the time when Democrats (maybe) re-take the house and presidency... only to then (probably) get blamed for all this shirt (which will then swing republicans back into power)

I like how cowardly this entire bill is. Medicaid gutting won't fully take place until Jan 1, 2027, after the midterms. No tax on Tips etc expire in 2028, at the end of Trumps presidency. If Democrats are gonna gain steam and take house or senate or both, they need to successfully hammer the Medicaid and snap cuts in midterm elections. "Good" Bills don't need the president working the phones and the VP being on the senate floor advocating for passage to potential swing votes. "Good" Bills don't need last minute backroom deals in certain districts which add buffer to the more odious cuts, I.E Alaska.

I would say, I don't know how the Louisiana congressional delegation survives this with how many in the state are working poor, depend on Medicaid but then I remember they elected Jeff Landry without him ever having to debate any of the candidates. In a sane world, a yes vote should be political suicide in Louisiana, given how many are on SNAP and Medicaid.

 

[SamAndreas]

So... almost right about the time when Democrats (maybe) re-take the house and presidency... only to then (probably) get blamed for all this shirt (which will then swing republicans back into power)

Yep, it's happened many times.

 

[SamAndreas]

I've just heard the breathless news that the big ugly bill has been voted down by the Senate. I haven't checked, but someone told me that just a few minutes ago. ... ... ... .

I paused to take look, and it seems that person thought Republicans voting down amendments with the Senator for Alaska voting with Democrats and losing was them voting down the entire bill.

That's the problem with "what one hears."

 

[zztop]

just saw this fraud list

Myth vs. Fact: The One Big Beautiful Bill

MYTH: The One Big Beautiful Bill is “just a tax break for billionaires.”FACT: The One Big Beautiful Bill delivers the largest middle- and working-class

www.whitehouse.gov

 

[SystemShock]

I agree that China is now out-innovating us in some areas, but their huge advances came by theft. They are like mafiosos that stole their way into wealth and then started creating real businesses. I’m not familiar with China’s EV innovations, but I’ve heard they are making good and inexpensive EVs. Battery tech is another of China’s advances that got a head start with theft, but now they are innovating themselves. China has done more to weaken American than anything else, because of their theft, job losses, and support for our adversaries. They’re also causing us to spend more on our military. Tech bros have brought prosperity, even as their zealous greed creates danger for our system of government. So we face many dangers, but I think China is our biggest and most insidious threat.

That's what you have been told all your life., but that's not the whole story.

On their own, China didn't just open (and this is a small sample of U.S. corporations) Apple, GM, Ray-Ban, Nike, Dell, Levi Strauss, Mattel, Converse, Xbox, Hewlett-Packard, Gap, L.L. Bean, Hanes, Boeing, Caterpillar factories. Those corporations decided to move their manufacturing and the jobs that came with it to China on their own.

You don't have to hear about it. Again, go look at BYD's Yangwang U series, and tell me who the Chinese stole those innovations from.

Our spending on the military is self-inflicted, in more than one way.

Our system of government seems to be in danger all on its own too.

 

[zztop]

Senate Republicans reject Democrats’ accounting baseline challenge

https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2025/06/30/congress/senate-republicans-reject-democrats-accounting-baseline-challenge-00432594

Republicans batted down a Democratic challenge to the GOP’s use of “current policy baseline,” which zeroes out the cost of $3.8 trillion of tax cut extensions in the GOP megabill.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

It's moot now. The senate voted it down.

LA, I'm a parent with special needs children, and I've been working that system for years.

So is @longtime lurker, so maybe have this discussion with him.

Is there anything that you aren't "I am...?"

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I've just heard the breathless news that the big ugly bill has been voted down by the Senate. I haven't checked, but someone told me that just a few minutes ago. ... ... ... .

I paused to take look, and it seems that person thought Republicans voting down amendments with the Senator for Alaska voting with Democrats and losing was them voting down the entire bill.

That's the problem with "what one hears."

It's not a problem as long as one is forthcoming in making it clear it's something they heard but is not confirmed. It's really weird to me that you regularly engage in actions you deem to be problematic. Practice what you preach, my brother.

 

[MT15]

These people are criminally vindictive bastages.