News NY AG sues Trump and Trump Org for Financial Fraud (Update: Fraud verdict with $454M judgment)) (1 Viewer)

[wardorican]

Figured he has two major legal things going, this should get its own focus.

 

[Lapaz]

Trump's outbursts can only have one logic. He has to be gambling that he has to fight and act out to maintain support from his voters in order to win the election, regardless of whether it hurts his case. His gamble is that he will win re-election, and then he can make it all go away. He has to have concluded that he can't win the cases, so his only play is to be belligerent, possibly be punished for it, and then use that to maintain support.

 

[FullMonte]

Trump's outbursts can only have one logic. He has to be gambling that he has to fight and act out to maintain support from his voters in order to win the election, regardless of whether it hurts his case. His gamble is that he will win re-election, and then he can make it all go away. He has to have concluded that he can't win the cases, so his only play is to be belligerent, possibly be punished for it, and then use that to maintain support.

I think it’s simpler than that.

He knows he can’t win on the facts and evidence, but if he can’t tick off the judge enough, Trump can play the victim more to his cult members about how the far left judge wouldn’t give him a fair chance and threw out all his testimony because it showed he was innocent.

 

[Lapaz]

The prosecutor should ask him if he ordered the code red…err did you order the documents to be doctored. If he did, then how long before Trump busts out with “you can’t handle the truth! The truth is I sit on my wall because people like you need us. I’d rather you just say than you. You damn right I ordered the documents to be doctored.”

 

[MT15]

Rolling Stone had a story that says the Trump legal strategy today is to provoke the judge into an outburst in court that could give them a chance to win an appeal and/or make the judge throw him in jail overnight which they think will be a fund raising bonanza. It was anonymously sourced so who knows. After reading what he said, though, it does seem likely.

 

[Taurus]

Rolling Stone had a story that says the Trump legal strategy today is to provoke the judge into an outburst in court that could give them a chance to win an appeal and/or make the judge throw him in jail overnight which they think will be a fund raising bonanza. It was anonymously sourced so who knows. After reading what he said, though, it does seem likely.

If you're going to jail Trump, it needs to be for at least two weeks.
Two weeks of blessed silence.
We'll see how fickle his following is when two whole news cycles pass without a word from him.

 

[MT15]

Lol

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[MT15]

This is part of what he admitted on the stand.

 

[MT15]

 

[superchuck500]

 

[superchuck500]

Trump rose to speak at the closing today in the NY fraud civil case. He wanted to make his own closing - but his attorney wouldn't (couldn't) agree to the judge's conditions that Trump's closing - like any attorney's closing - could only be about the case and the evidence, and could not be a political speech and could not attack the court or the other party. So of course Trump disregarded all of this and rose to speak anyway.

‘Control Your Client’

Donald Trump’s disrespect for the law was on prominent display in a Manhattan courtroom earlier today.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Lapaz]

Trump rose to speak at the closing today in the NY fraud civil case. He wanted to make his own closing - but his attorney wouldn't (couldn't) agree to the judge's conditions that Trump's closing - like any attorney's closing - could only be about the case and the evidence, and could not be a political speech and could not attack the court or the other party. So of course Trump disregarded all of this and rose to speak anyway.

‘Control Your Client’

Donald Trump’s disrespect for the law was on prominent display in a Manhattan courtroom earlier today.

www.theatlantic.com

I read that the judge let Trump speak for 5 minutes! Can he commit perjury during a closing statement, because I'm sure he must've stated many lies if he spoke for more than a minute?

 

[MT15]

It was a disgraceful out burst, from what I have read, where he repeated his usual lies, attacked the judge and the prosecutor. He was cut off by the judge, and then he stormed out of the courtroom.

 

[superchuck500]

I read that the judge let Trump speak for 5 minutes! Can he commit perjury during a closing statement, because I'm sure he must've stated many lies if he spoke for more than a minute?

No, it's not sworn testimony.

Lawyers can get in trouble with the court during closing if they go too far afield of the facts, evidence, and issues before the court. A lawyer would never be able to say what Trump said. And represented parties don't typically get to just get up and speak - especially without leave of court to do so (which Trump's lawyer tried to get but the judge denied it because Trump wouldn't agree to conditions).

 

[RobF]

No, it's not sworn testimony.

Lawyers can get in trouble with the court during closing if they go too far afield of the facts, evidence, and issues before the court. A lawyer would never be able to say what Trump said. And represented parties don't typically get to just get up and speak - especially without leave of court to do so (which Trump's lawyer tried to get but the judge denied it because Trump wouldn't agree to conditions).

So the question I have is, given that Trump did ignore the conditions for speaking, and did just go ahead and get up and speak anyway, are there any consequences?

It seems a bit odd that someone can ignore the judge's terms, get up and rant for several minutes, and then just leave without anything actually happening (I mean, other than annoying the judge who's about to rule on your case). Wouldn't that be a contempt of court thing?

 

[superchuck500]

So the question I have is, given that Trump did ignore the conditions for speaking, and did just go ahead and get up and speak anyway, are there any consequences?

It seems a bit odd that someone can ignore the judge's terms, get up and rant for several minutes, and then just leave without anything actually happening (I mean, other than annoying the judge who's about to rule on your case). Wouldn't that be a contempt of court thing?

It's a fair question but as far as I know, there is no specific rule or direct penalty for such a thing - it falls under the general rules of decorum in the courtroom . . . which means the judge has substantial discretion to handle it, but also that in the rare occasion that it does happen, we can't look to a specific result to apply with certainty. I think that there is a general spirit in American courtrooms that parties are entitled to be heard on the record, but it should be done within the process - that's precisely what lawyers are for.

But within the judge's discretion, a judge could certainly hold Trump in contempt for his grand-standing, especially because he tried to clear it with the court ahead of time and was denied. I think that some sort of contempt finding and penalty would withstand appeal here - but I don't think the judge is going to do that.

First, there's no jury in this case so there's no concern about some kind of speech outside of the procedure impacting the jury that will decide the case - and that's a huge factor, judges presiding over jury trials have to manage that issue very closely. But as to the court, he's already fined Trump on other issues and here, and the case is over. Trump got to say his piece but it certainly didn't help him - and it's obviously stupid to insult the judge who is going to decide your penalty . . . though that bridge had long been burned. I think the judge is just going to move on from here to prepare the court's ruling.

Trump's whole posture on this case has been a demonstration of how not to litigate. I suspect he's going to get hit pretty hard. We'll see how it holds up on appeal, I suspect the judge is going to be very meticulous about his findings to maximize their chances.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

It was just another display of a pattern of behavior that trump believes our laws has never applied to him

 

[MT15]

And just like clockwork, another indication he holds American system of law and justice in total disregard.