Now is not the time to talk about gun control (2 Viewers)

[brandon]

T&P

Redirect Notice

 

[MT15]

New poll out of Utah:

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

New poll out of Utah:

Yeah, I don't know what the percentages were before but I agree with the 60% and think we just have no choice but to ban assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. I believe the time has come. There are, BTW, plenty of other types of firearms from which people can pick.

Do I think we will? Probably not, but that puts the onus squarely on congress.

 

[Dragon]

Yeah, I don't know what the percentages were before but I agree with the 60% and think we just have no choice but to ban assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. I believe the time has come. There are, BTW, plenty of other types of firearms from which people can pick.

Do I think we will? Probably not, but that puts the onus squarely on congress.

No actually not. It puts the onus on EVERY CITIZENT to elect members of congress who will support such legislation.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

No actually not. It puts the onus on EVERY CITIZENT to elect members of congress who will support such legislation.

 

[insidejob]

Maybe you should have threatened to kill everyone

That doesn’t seem to set off any alarms

I actually decided to wait well past the date in 2023 that puts me ten full years from the completion of the sentence to charges I pled guilty to in 2007 & 2008. I completed the probation in 2013 so I'm gonna buy an AR-15 and shoot at people indiscriminately cuz that's what they seem to be made for. I really don't care about their other uses...the fact that like 99.5% of mass shooters just so happen to choose AR-15's to commit their carnage, why don't we put an asterisk on that birch and make a permit required to buy one. Unmodified handguns I have no problem with. That's a reasonable weapon for self defense. If you're facing a crowd that requiresan AR, you should probably choose to run instead anyway.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Posted this on EE too
================
It is 10am on the east coast right now

I do not own a gun. If I decide right now "I want to buy a gun" I don't think there should be anyway or any scenario that I should have a gun in my possession in my home by the time I go to bed tonight

Saying "I think I want to buy a gun" should be less like "I think I want to buy a new TV" and more like "I think I want to adopt a baby" - there should be a thorough process

There should be required training/safety/storage requirements (in fact there should be required before you're able to take possession of a gun)

If someone wants to own a hundred guns, they can own a hundred guns. But there should be a record of the 100 guns, exactly what the gun is, serial number, where you got it, and if you sell a gun, who did you sell it to, and that person need to register that they got it from you

And no one needs 100 guns for home defense or hunting, if you want that many guns fine, but once you get past X number of guns there should an extra fee/tax

I believe it's the same for cars, at some point a few cars turns into a fleet which I think there are costs past that threshold

Once the number of guns you have can be described as an arsenal - there should be extra costs involved

I don't think that background checks should be a one and done. That's fine for one handgun but for a certain number of guns or certain type there should be periodic checks

You pass the checks with flying colors today, great. 3 years from now you start tweeting out violent threats, that should show up on someone's radar and someone should show up on your doorstep (side question, why do so many of these shooters seem to post about it or general violent intentions beforehand?)

These are just some thoughts I've had, and I know they are inconvenient, especially for life long responsible gun owners, but I don't think there is any way to solve this issue without causing inconveniences

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Posted this on EE too
================
It is 10am on the east coast right now

I do not own a gun. If I decide right now "I want to buy a gun" I don't think there should be anyway or any scenario that I should have a gun in my possession in my home by the time I go to bed tonight

Saying "I think I want to buy a gun" should be less like "I think I want to buy a new TV" and more like "I think I want to adopt a baby" - there should be a thorough process

There should be required training/safety/storage requirements (in fact there should be required before you're able to take possession of a gun)

If someone wants to own a hundred guns, they can own a hundred guns. But there should be a record of the 100 guns, exactly what the gun is, serial number, where you got it, and if you sell a gun, who did you sell it to, and that person need to register that they got it from you

And no one needs 100 guns for home defense or hunting, if you want that many guns fine, but once you get past X number of guns there should an extra fee/tax

I believe it's the same for cars, at some point a few cars turns into a fleet which I think there are costs past that threshold

Once the number of guns you have can be described as an arsenal - there should be extra costs involved

I don't think that background checks should be a one and done. That's fine for one handgun but for a certain number of guns or certain type there should be periodic checks

You pass the checks with flying colors today, great. 3 years from now you start tweeting out violent threats, that should show up on someone's radar and someone should show up on your doorstep (side question, why do so many of these shooters seem to post about it or general violent intentions beforehand?)

These are just some thoughts I've had, and I know they are inconvenient, especially for life long responsible gun owners, but I don't think there is any way to solve this issue without causing inconveniences

How Japan has almost eradicated gun crime

Japan has one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world, and the rules around ownership are very strict.

www.bbc.com

"Japan has one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world. In 2014 there were just six gun deaths, compared to 33,599 in the US.

What is the secret?

If you want to buy a gun in Japan you need patience and determination. You have to attend an all-day class, take a written exam and pass a shooting-range test with a mark of at least 95%.

There are also mental health and drugs tests. Your criminal record is checked and police look for links to extremist groups. Then they check your relatives too - and even your work colleagues. And as well as having the power to deny gun licences, police also have sweeping powers to search and seize weapons.

That's not all. Handguns are banned outright. Only shotguns and air rifles are allowed.

The law restricts the number of gun shops. In most of Japan's 40 or so prefectures there can be no more than three, and you can only buy fresh cartridges by returning the spent cartridges you bought on your last visit."

 

[DaveXA]

"Japan has one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world. In 2014 there were just six gun deaths, compared to 33,599 in the US.

What is the secret?

If you want to buy a gun in Japan you need patience and determination. You have to attend an all-day class, take a written exam and pass a shooting-range test with a mark of at least 95%.

There are also mental health and drugs tests. Your criminal record is checked and police look for links to extremist groups. Then they check your relatives too - and even your work colleagues. And as well as having the power to deny gun licences, police also have sweeping powers to search and seize weapons.

That's not all. Handguns are banned outright. Only shotguns and air rifles are allowed.

The law restricts the number of gun shops. In most of Japan's 40 or so prefectures there can be no more than three, and you can only buy fresh cartridges by returning the spent cartridges you bought on your last visit."

I'd be fine with all of that, but there's no way that happens without significantly altering or eliminating the 2A.

 

[SystemShock]

New poll out of Utah:

Also, Utah:
90% will vote for the people who will oppose those measures at every level of government.

 

[DaveXA]

Also, Utah:
90% will vote for the people who will oppose those measures at every level of government.

Yeah, voters are weird.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I'd be fine with all of that, but there's no way that happens without significantly altering or eliminating the 2A.

Plus I don't think we need to go that far.

Edit to add: I think the time has come to realize that we can't be held hostage by something written as long ago as the 2nd Amendment and whose interpretation is up for debate. Time perhaps for another amendment.

 

[SystemShock]

Yeah, voters are weird.

Weird is not the word I'd use

 

[MT15]

Pretty good analysis of Tucker Carlson‘s bogus claims about gun violence. I don’t think it’s behind a paywall, but if it is let me know.

How To Read This Chart: Using charts to imply data, not to show it

Plus, your eyes are deceiving you.

s2.washingtonpost.com

 

[Optimus Prime]

posted this in EE also
================
He couldn’t get a date.

Or he hated Black people.

Or he was bullied in school.

If any of that sounds familiar, it should.

Every time there’s a mass shooting in this country -- which, as a functional matter, pretty much means every day -- those are the kinds of explanations routinely offered in the aftermath.

A simple trip to the store, seeing a movie, going to school -- or, as was the case last week in Highland Park, north of Chicago, going to a parade -- ends up in carnage and reporters dutifully waylay the shooter’s parents, teachers and friends to ask how this could have happened. And the portrait emerges.

Or he was depressed.

Or he was a loner.

But curiously enough, no one ever seems to consider, much less interrogate, the neon thread woven through it all. Meaning that pronoun, “he.” Always, “he.” We take it for granted. It hardly even registers.

But maybe it should. In a government-funded study of 172 mass shootings since 1966 -- defined as a shooting in a public place where four or more people were killed -- The Violence Project, a nonpartisan and nonprofit anti-violence think tank, found that just four of the shooters were female. That’s a little more than 2 percent.

So, while we debate mass shootings as a bigotry problem, a mental health problem, an access to guns problem -- and make no mistake, we should -- it seems past time we also began debating it as a men problem.

Especially since the numbers suggest it is more a men problem than any other kind. That we seldom broach it as such speaks to the fish-don’t-know-they’re-wet myopia of most of those framing the discussion.

Meaning, of course: men themselves..........

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[coldseat]

Interesting insight. I can also confirm that dealing with social services and the court system with juveniles is a forking dumpster fire. My sister has been going through some really serious issues with her 17 year old son who's dealing with depression and severe mental health issues, including suicidal desires and drug abuse in Florida and it's been a severe struggle. It just seems like everything that's been allowed or imposed by legal entities and social services has been designed to make things worse and not promote healing and recovery, but at the same time they have no where else to turn. At the very least, my nephew has shown no signs or desires of hurting anybody other than himself and some violent outburst at home. They also don't own any guns. Her and her husband are trying everything they can, but it's a daily battle.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

posted this in EE also
================
He couldn’t get a date.

Or he hated Black people.

Or he was bullied in school.

If any of that sounds familiar, it should.

Every time there’s a mass shooting in this country -- which, as a functional matter, pretty much means every day -- those are the kinds of explanations routinely offered in the aftermath.

A simple trip to the store, seeing a movie, going to school -- or, as was the case last week in Highland Park, north of Chicago, going to a parade -- ends up in carnage and reporters dutifully waylay the shooter’s parents, teachers and friends to ask how this could have happened. And the portrait emerges.

Or he was depressed.

Or he was a loner.

But curiously enough, no one ever seems to consider, much less interrogate, the neon thread woven through it all. Meaning that pronoun, “he.” Always, “he.” We take it for granted. It hardly even registers.

But maybe it should. In a government-funded study of 172 mass shootings since 1966 -- defined as a shooting in a public place where four or more people were killed -- The Violence Project, a nonpartisan and nonprofit anti-violence think tank, found that just four of the shooters were female. That’s a little more than 2 percent.

So, while we debate mass shootings as a bigotry problem, a mental health problem, an access to guns problem -- and make no mistake, we should -- it seems past time we also began debating it as a men problem.

Especially since the numbers suggest it is more a men problem than any other kind. That we seldom broach it as such speaks to the fish-don’t-know-they’re-wet myopia of most of those framing the discussion.

Meaning, of course: men themselves..........

MSN

www.msn.com

Men and firearms are a more likely combination.

"The firearm suicide epidemic has been growing, with the firearm suicide rate increasing 12.5% over the last decade (2010-2019). 2019 showed a slight reprieve, with the rate dropping by 2.84% from 2018. Still, 23,941 Americans died by firearm suicide in 2019, capping a decade during which more than 200,000 people were lost to firearm suicide."

"Disparities Across Demographics​

BY SEX

While females are more likely than males to attempt suicide, males are four times more likely to die by suicide. Across all demographics, males have higher rates of firearm suicide and suicide overall. This is primarily due to the fact that males are more likely to use a more lethal suicide attempt method, such as firearms. Suicide attempts among males are eight times more likely to involve firearms than attempts among females."

Statistics - Prevent Firearm Suicide

preventfirearmsuicide.efsgv.org

 

[Optimus Prime]

Yep
==========
Florida congressman Matt Gaetz has come out against a proposal to create a nationwide active shooter alert system, calling the effort an effort to “programme” citisens to “hate” the Second Amendment.

“It’s because they want you to be afraid of the Second Amendment. It’s because they want you to be afraid of responsible gun ownership,” Mr Gaetz, who has previously received money from gun groups, said on the House floor on Wednesday.

“They hope that if they programme you and bombard you long enough, that you’ll hate your own Second Amendment rights, or that you may tattle on your neighbour, who is lawfully and rightfully exercising theirs,” he added. “The American people should not fall for this.”

The bill, the Active Shooter Alert Act, was proposed in February, and would create a localised emergency alert system akin to the Amber Alert for missing children………

Matt Gaetz says active shooter alert law designed to cause ‘hate’ of Second Amendment

Bill would create local alert system

www.independent.co.uk

 

[brandon]

Yep
==========
Florida congressman Matt Gaetz has come out against a proposal to create a nationwide active shooter alert system, calling the effort an effort to “programme” citisens to “hate” the Second Amendment.

“It’s because they want you to be afraid of the Second Amendment. It’s because they want you to be afraid of responsible gun ownership,” Mr Gaetz, who has previously received money from gun groups, said on the House floor on Wednesday.

“They hope that if they programme you and bombard you long enough, that you’ll hate your own Second Amendment rights, or that you may tattle on your neighbour, who is lawfully and rightfully exercising theirs,” he added. “The American people should not fall for this.”

The bill, the Active Shooter Alert Act, was proposed in February, and would create a localised emergency alert system akin to the Amber Alert for missing children………

Matt Gaetz says active shooter alert law designed to cause ‘hate’ of Second Amendment

Bill would create local alert system

www.independent.co.uk

Honestly, it probably would have that effect, mostly because your damn phone would be going off like every other day with one of those alerts.