Now is not the time to talk about gun control (1 Viewer)

[brandon]

T&P

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[Texan1211]

Neither is you refusing to answer a simple question. The difference is I am trying to further the discussion and you are refusing to engage in good faith. I ask again:

ELI5: Why is it obtuse to ask/expect claimants to support their claims with evidence?

You can waste your entire life asking.
You refused to accept answers, so twist.

 

[Dragon]

You can waste your entire life asking.
You refused to accept answers, so twist.

You’re constantly moving the goalposts. You initially claimed that "school shootings increased after prayer was removed from schools." Now, you’ve shifted to arguing that school shootings are rising in the years after the removal of the ban on assault weapons—a point that several of us have been making all along.

 

[Texan1211]

You initially claimed that "school shootings increased after prayer was removed from schools."

if shootings have increased (and it is completely undeniable they have) since we ended school prayer, it is an accurate statement. Do note that I never claimed it was BECAUSE we ended prayer in schools. I simply floated the IDEA that it MAY be a contributing factor, which blew everyone's mind, apparently.
I moved no goalposts, simply defended what I actually wrote against what you and others imagined I wrote or meant.

Now, you’ve shifted to arguing that school shootings are rising in the years after the removal of the ban on assault weapons—a point that several of us have been making all along.

A prime example of inventing an argument for me and then trying to get me to defend against your weak-arse strawman argument. As with others, QUOTE me or stop the nonsense.

 

[Dragon]

if shootings have increased (and it is completely undeniable they have) since we ended school prayer, it is an accurate statement. Do note that I never claimed it was BECAUSE we ended prayer in schools. I simply floated the IDEA that it MAY be a contributing factor, which blew everyone's mind, apparently.
I moved no goalposts, simply defended what I actually wrote against what you and others imagined I wrote or meant.

A prime example of inventing an argument for me and then trying to get me to defend against your weak-arse strawman argument. As with others, QUOTE me or stop the nonsense.

The data doesn’t support your "may" assertion. The increase in school shootings occurred many years later and directly corresponds with the removal of the ban on assault weapons. You never provided any data to support your claim that the removal of school prayer had any effect, despite multiple requests from others for evidence.

By that logic, you could just as easily claim that school shootings increased after the first man went into space. While technically "correct," neither of these statements reflects any meaningful or supported connection to the rise in school shootings.

 

[Texan1211]

The data doesn’t support your "may" assertion. The increase in school shootings occurred many years later and directly corresponds with the removal of the ban on assault weapons. You never provided any data to support your claim that the removal of school prayer had any effect, despite multiple requests from others for evidence.

By that logic, you could just as easily claim that school shootings increased after the first man went into space. While technically "correct," neither of these statements reflects any meaningful or supported connection to the rise in school shootings.

Jeeze, we have been the through all this. When one has their mind closed to possibilities and dismiss them out of hand, it tells volumes about that person.

 

[Dragon]

Jeeze, we have been the through all this. When one has their mind closed to possibilities and dismiss them out of hand, it tells volumes about that person.

Examining the data and exploring various research projects is not the same as dismissing something out of hand. In fact, I’ve likely spent more time investigating your claim than you have, given that you’ve never provided a shred of data to support why you thought it might be true in the first place.

 

[MT15]

I'm amazed at the level of close-mindedness. Good God, with that type of thinking, no scientific advancement would be possible. Someone attempting to do or prove something never before done. Gathering data, not assuming none can exist because it isn't before them in a convenient book. Not rejecting possibilities or refusing to do tests because it hasn't been done before. Open your mind.

This is all nonsense from someone with zero understanding of the scientific method.

No one is being close minded. We have repeatedly asked you for evidence. You evidently have zero evidence to back up your ideas, but want everyone to acknowledge their validity.

You continue to just operate on your feelings. That’s not how it should work.

Chuck presented some interesting data. Got any comments on it?

 

[MT15]

I don't see much difference between having a couple of guns and having 17 as far as access goes.

Do you think it’s just as likely that a homeowner with more than 20 guns, and let’s face it most gun owners own many guns these days, can keep track of all of them as well as a homeowner who owns 2 guns?

We see the evidence that they cannot keep track of all of their guns every day in this country. Every damn day. I proved to you that teens aren’t buying guns, yet they are readily able to obtain them.

Why do you think that is?

 

[MT15]

I see, but it is perfectly rational to dismiss possibilities? How forward thinking

You conveniently left out the phrase “without proof”. I think I will just call you “the straw man”, lol.

 

[Texan1211]

Examining the data and exploring various research projects is not the same as dismissing something out of hand. In fact, I’ve likely spent more time investigating your claim than you have, given that you’ve never provided a shred of data to support why you thought it might be true in the first place.

Once again, already covered that territory and see no point in going on further about it.

 

[Texan1211]

This is all nonsense from someone with zero understanding of the scientific method.

No one is being close minded. We have repeatedly asked you for evidence. You evidently have zero evidence to back up your ideas, but want everyone to acknowledge their validity.

You continue to just operate on your feelings. That’s not how it should work.

Chuck presented some interesting data. Got any comments on it?

Old stuff already answered. Just because none of you LIKED the answer doesn't mean it wasn't answered.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Once again, already covered that territory and see no point in going on further about it.

Yes, you have thoroughly proven that you think opinions unsupported by evidence are worthy of real discussion. People with common sense and rudimentary logical thinking skills disagree with your absurd notion and don't give a damn how much that hurts your fragile ego.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Old stuff already answered. Just because none of you LIKED the answer doesn't mean it wasn't answered.

The question asked (repeatedly) is if you have any evidence to support your claim. Can you please point out where you have given a yes or no answer to this question? No, you can't, because you avoid the question at all costs.

 

[Texan1211]

Do you think it’s just as likely that a homeowner with more than 20 guns, and let’s face it most gun owners own many guns these days, can keep track of all of them as well as a homeowner who owns 2 guns?

Of course. Everyone I know with weapons keeps them secured. Kind of easy to see if anyone has broken into your gun safe.
Teens are given guns by friends or relatives or they steal them. This isn't hard to figure out. The same way they have always been able to obtain them right?

 

[Texan1211]

You conveniently left out the phrase “without proof”. I think I will just call you “the straw man”, lol.

When people refuse to even think something MIGHT be possible, they are not scientific or open-minded or very intelligent. I gave a perfect example and the folks here couldn't even comprehend it.

 

[Texan1211]

Yes, you have thoroughly proven that you think opinions unsupported by evidence are worthy of real discussion.

You have proven yourself to be close-minded to my complete satisfaction. Once again, you deliberately lie about what I have said and attempt to argue the words you put in my mouth.
Do better.

 

[Texan1211]

The question asked (repeatedly) is if you have any evidence to support your claim. Can you please point out where you have given a yes or no answer to this question? No, you can't, because you avoid the question at all costs.

Another MASSIVE LIE. I said there was no evidence and yet, you pretend I never wrote it. I said it was a POSSIBILITY, maybe it is something you need to learn the freaking definition of.
Do you believe that MULTIPLE factors could contribute to increased violence? Or just what has already been proven to be factors?

 

[Huntn]

My posts are here to read or not. But if you are going to comment on my posts, you should at least read them first.
But sure, I'll REPEAT some of what I would like to see happen.

No one convicted on ANY violent crime ever gets to own a gun again.
Mandatory sentences for any crime committed with a gun, and prosecutors willing to prosecute like that instead of making deals ad dropping gun charges. I am okay with gun charge sentences not being allowed to run concurrently with other sentences. Prosecute everyone who lies on gun registration forms. We have lots of laws regarding ownership of guns, but relatively few prosecutions for things like lying on forms.
Registration of all firearms. Mandatory training classes before ownership. Holding gun owners accountable for allowing access to their guns by others.

I agree and believe there must be required mental screening for gun ownership, and parents who allow their kids access to guns* that subsequently are used on other people without should be arrested along with the minor.

* Not reference to verbal restrictions “don’t tougch”, but physical restrictions such as a gun safe.