New Poll on Police Shooting of Black Men (1 Viewer)

[Farb]

https://www.skeptic.com/research-center/reports/Research-Report-CUPES-007.pdf

(the answer is at the maximum 27)

I heard about this new poll from a podcast I listen to on the regular. To me, this is disturbing to say the least. We allowed idiots to burn down private businesses and cities because of the horrible reporting and the narrative pushed by politicians the media.

If we as a country are going to move forward (I am not so sure we do move forward as a country) we need to have actual fact based discussions that are not based on feeling and implied intent. There is a rush in the country to label any perceived injustice as race based and obviously this is not the case in reality but it does make nice headlines and gather votes.

 

[brandon]

Why are voter ID laws racist?

See above.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Why are voter ID laws racist?

Because the intent is to make it harder for minorities to vote

 

[DaveXA]

Because the intent is to make it harder for minorities to vote

I'm curious how big an issue that actually is. Do that many minorities not have IDs? I mean, I would think the percentage has to be pretty small. I haven't read any in-depth research on how many people don't actually have IDs though.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I'm curious how big an issue that actually is. Do that many minorities not have IDs? I mean, I would think the percentage has to be pretty small. I haven't read any in-depth research on how many people don't actually have IDs though.

The estimates are anywhere from 7 million Americans up to 20 million Americans do not have a current government issued government ID.

In theory I don't oppose a voter ID - but it has to be 100% free and convenient for a citizen to get it, and the government needs to do the work to find the right papers if lets say the person who doesn't have a voter ID, doesn't have a birth certificate because they are 80 years old and black, and public services for black Americans in the 1930's was not very good and they never got their paperwork.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Why are voter ID laws racist?

Because powerful white people want to stay in power and it’s clearly very easy to dupe other white people about race dynamics

I know you meant ‘how’ but I think your subconscious spoke up

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

I'm curious how big an issue that actually is. Do that many minorities not have IDs? I mean, I would think the percentage has to be pretty small. I haven't read any in-depth research on how many people don't actually have IDs though.

It’s part of a multi pronged effort at voter suppression (along with continually changing polling sites, changing early voting protocols, planting misinformation days/weeks before elections, et al) and of course gerrymandering
Each one of those don’t have to be wildly successful by themselves; but together they’re essentially the reason why the 38-42% minority has about 50% of federal power and 60 some odd percent of statewide power

 

[MT15]

I even saw where some state had proposed making it illegal to offer people waiting in line to vote some water. I sure hope that didn’t pass and no, I don’t remember where that I saw it or which state.

 

[DaveXA]

It’s part of a multi pronged effort at voter suppression (along with continually changing polling sites, changing early voting protocols, planting misinformation days/weeks before elections, et al) and of course gerrymandering
Each one of those don’t have to be wildly successful by themselves; but together they’re essentially the reason why the 38-42% minority has about 50% of federal power and 60 some odd percent of statewide power

Yeah, that it's part of an overall coordinated effort to suppress minorities, I can buy that. I was just thinking purely from a numbers standpoint.

7-20 million people without an ID seems awfully high, but if those are the numbers, then more effort needs to be made to get everyone supplied with an ID. I do think a good percentage are people who voluntarily don't obtain an ID. But that's probably a small sunset of the overall numbers.

That said, what can we do to make sure votes are valid and cast once, in addition to being fully accessible and open to everyone eligible to vote?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

That said, what can we do to make sure votes are valid and cast once, in addition to being fully accessible and open to everyone eligible to vote?

There's no perfect system unless you want to spend a crazy amount of money. I would start by trying to define the problem. How many fraudulent votes are being cast in each election? Not speculation, but actual hard numbers. Quantify the problem. Then determine what method is being used to cast those fraudulent votes - and besides arresting the people who cast those illegal votes, determine what methods should be used to stop it... if the problem is like 4 votes per election are fraudulent, then how much do you want to spend making sure that can't happen?

You can't solve a problem until it's defined and bounded. We currently have very good rules and procedures to make sure elections are fair - they involve multiple verification steps with representatives from both parties along the way. So, I think before we do anything, it needs to be established that there's actually a problem.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Yeah, that it's part of an overall coordinated effort to suppress minorities, I can buy that. I was just thinking purely from a numbers standpoint.

7-20 million people without an ID seems awfully high, but if those are the numbers, then more effort needs to be made to get everyone supplied with an ID. I do think a good percentage are people who voluntarily don't obtain an ID. But that's probably a small sunset of the overall numbers.

That said, what can we do to make sure votes are valid and cast once, in addition to being fully accessible and open to everyone eligible to vote?

“Purely from a numbers standpoint” is separating it from the context of its intent

 

[brandon]

I'm curious how big an issue that actually is. Do that many minorities not have IDs? I mean, I would think the percentage has to be pretty small. I haven't read any in-depth research on how many people don't actually have IDs though.

If it weren’t significant enough to matter, do you think Republicans would be so adamant that it be implemented?

 

[V Chip]

I even saw where some state had proposed making it illegal to offer people waiting in line to vote some water. I sure hope that didn’t pass and no, I don’t remember where that I saw it or which state.

It’s Georgia.

 

[DaveXA]

“Purely from a numbers standpoint” is separating it from the context of its intent

Yes, I'm not asking necessarily about context or intent. I'm asking what the numbers are. UTJ gave me an estimate regarding the numbers.

Already acknowledged the intent/context comments.

 

[V Chip]

That said, what can we do to make sure votes are valid and cast once, in addition to being fully accessible and open to everyone eligible to vote?

I suggested a fairly easy way a long time ago on the PDB. For anyone voting in person without a picture voter ID, validate their eligibility at the polls as normal. Let them cast their vote. Take a picture right there at the polls, then send them their free voter id in the mail after the election that they can use in the next election. A person gets 2 or 3 votes without voter ID before their vote becomes provisional (meaning it’s possible to send them 2 or 3 voter ID cards before they are required to have one).

Easy, cheap, accessible, and it doesn’t cost anything for the voter nor does it suppress their vote.

 

[DaveXA]

If it weren’t significant enough to matter, do you think Republicans would be so adamant that it be implemented?

Certainly not. But like I asked, I hadn't seen any numbers thrown out there about how many actually don't have IDs.

 

[DaveXA]

I suggested a fairly easy way a long time ago on the PDB. For anyone voting in person without a picture voter ID, validate their eligibility at the polls as normal. Let them cast their vote. Take a picture right there at the polls, then send them their free voter id in the mail after the election that they can use in the next election. A person gets 2 or 3 votes without voter ID before their vote becomes provisional (meaning it’s possible to send them 2 or 3 voter ID cards before they are required to have one).

Easy, cheap, accessible, and it doesn’t cost anything for the voter nor does it suppress their vote.

I'm open to that.

 

[Farb]

I suggested a fairly easy way a long time ago on the PDB. For anyone voting in person without a picture voter ID, validate their eligibility at the polls as normal. Let them cast their vote. Take a picture right there at the polls, then send them their free voter id in the mail after the election that they can use in the next election. A person gets 2 or 3 votes without voter ID before their vote becomes provisional (meaning it’s possible to send them 2 or 3 voter ID cards before they are required to have one).

Easy, cheap, accessible, and it doesn’t cost anything for the voter nor does it suppress their vote.

I don't hate it. Not at all. I think that would be something. The only change I propose is that the citizen has 1 vote without an ID (that vote being the the one that the process to send them a ID in the mail) and that vote only, obviously, applies to in-person voting. After they receive their ID they can then apply for a validated mail-in if desired.

 

[brandon]

I don't hate it. Not at all. I think that would be something. The only change I propose is that the citizen has 1 vote without an ID (that vote being the the one that the process to send them a ID in the mail) and that vote only, obviously, applies to in-person voting. After they receive their ID they can then apply for a validated mail-in if desired.

And that's the rub. This sort of proposal, while everyone would agree is sensible and would work for increasing election security and protecting the right to vote, will never happen, because it doesn't satisfy the intended goal of VoterID legislation, which is specifically to reduce minority turnout. Republicans have frequently admitted as much.

Some Republicans Acknowledge Leveraging Voter ID Laws for Political Gain (Published 2016)

A trove of documents reveal Republican politicians drawing on fears of election fraud to prevent voters — usually Democratic — from casting ballots.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/07/republicans-should-really-stop-admitting-that-voter-id-helps-them-win/

Stacking the deck: How the GOP works to suppress minority voting - Berkeley News

In a historic election, Republicans are targeting communities of color with vote suppression, Berkeley scholars say

news.berkeley.edu