New Poll on Police Shooting of Black Men (1 Viewer)

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Farb

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https://www.skeptic.com/research-center/reports/Research-Report-CUPES-007.pdf

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(the answer is at the maximum 27)

I heard about this new poll from a podcast I listen to on the regular. To me, this is disturbing to say the least. We allowed idiots to burn down private businesses and cities because of the horrible reporting and the narrative pushed by politicians the media.

If we as a country are going to move forward (I am not so sure we do move forward as a country) we need to have actual fact based discussions that are not based on feeling and implied intent. There is a rush in the country to label any perceived injustice as race based and obviously this is not the case in reality but it does make nice headlines and gather votes.
 

DaveXA

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@DaveXA i like that Dave replied soon after this bc it's something that I've been wondering about the both of you (and a few other centrists)...

you note your wife's and stepson's 'elevated' emotional response to things -- and by implication, championing your own 'level-headed' take on things
(pardon the annoying pop psycho analysis that follows)
i get the sense from you and Dave that you consider your seeking moderation/seeking balance stance as perceived wisdom and maybe even enlightenment
AND IT MAY VERY WELL BE
it may also be the same/similar neuro-chemical (or emotionally trained) response to stimuli that libs in our default humans over institutions or the alt with their desperate clinging to mythology go through
[[i anticipate that in 20 years time we will find out that our participation in discussion boards bears striking resemblance to experimental rats clicking bars to get their food reward -- but i digress]]

your moderation is your default position - Dave in another thread on another board champions "Normal"
you are exactly right that we should ALL check our presumptions about (though i will add that i think you are exactly wrong about it being a binary - race is both as real and illusory as love - and you have jut as much chance of telling someone whether their experience is REALLY racial as you do telling someone to what degree they are in/out of love
- i can listen to my wife and think, ' is that really all that racist' but i know that i lack to tools both to assess and express that degree

yes i will continue to try to check myself - but i ask you and Dave to continue to check your presumptions that all answers are 'probably in the middle somewhere' - there's nothing that tells us that such a position is any more than a political convenience

love you both
Well, I don't really even know what normal is other than relatively speaking. What's normal is malleable and like you said, in 20 years time, we might be looking back on these discussions from a different, perhaps markedly different than how we perceive it now. My perceptions have changed a lot over the last 20 years, due in no small part to reading perspectives or guys like you, SBTB, ward, @Ayo, @First Time Poster among numerous others. As much as I've learned, I continue to want to not only learn more, but be a better person and critique my own worldview.

I don't think necessarily that all answers are in the middle. But I think as a frame of reference, we do have to start somewhere, and usually for me it's in the middle, but I might end up a long way from there after honest and open consideration. Even then, that doesn't necessarily make me more right, or smarter than anyone else, but I do think self-evaluation is always a challenge, and that certainly applies in perceptions about race. As a white male, my life experiences are vastly different than a lot of minorities. That I grew up with numerous black friends don't mean I understand what they deal with every day. I don't pretend to, but I do think we can ask questions and find a way to understanding each other.

Unless I misunderstood, I don't think ward was saying race is a binary issue. I thought he was saying the opposite. We tend to think of race issues in binary terms, but what about nuance, what about things that maybe are ultimately trivial compared to other larger issues. What criteria are we using to determine what's important? I would imagine my criteria would be pretty different from someone who has had a much different life experience than I have.

I'm really willing to listen and use what I learn appropriately.
 

wardorican

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@DaveXA i like that Dave replied soon after this bc it's something that I've been wondering about the both of you (and a few other centrists)...

you note your wife's and stepson's 'elevated' emotional response to things -- and by implication, championing your own 'level-headed' take on things
(pardon the annoying pop psycho analysis that follows)
i get the sense from you and Dave that you consider your seeking moderation/seeking balance stance as perceived wisdom and maybe even enlightenment
AND IT MAY VERY WELL BE
it may also be the same/similar neuro-chemical (or emotionally trained) response to stimuli that libs in our default humans over institutions or the alt with their desperate clinging to mythology go through
[[i anticipate that in 20 years time we will find out that our participation in discussion boards bears striking resemblance to experimental rats clicking bars to get their food reward -- but i digress]]

your moderation is your default position - Dave in another thread on another board champions "Normal"
you are exactly right that we should ALL check our presumptions about (though i will add that i think you are exactly wrong about it being a binary - race is both as real and illusory as love - and you have jut as much chance of telling someone whether their experience is REALLY racial as you do telling someone to what degree they are in/out of love
- i can listen to my wife and think, ' is that really all that racist' but i know that i lack to tools both to assess and express that degree

yes i will continue to try to check myself - but i ask you and Dave to continue to check your presumptions that all answers are 'probably in the middle somewhere' - there's nothing that tells us that such a position is any more than a political convenience

love you both
Fair points. And I'll delve into them later. I wanted to hear (edit) more thoughts first, if possible.

But for some quick examples. My wife's stress had lead to her shoulders and neck locking up multiple times and a few other medical things. I dont want to get specific, but I'd say her biggest need is serenity. Not a middle ground.

My step son dropped his cell phone when he was in HS and the screen shattered. He had a near nervous breakdown at school and was on the verge of being baker acted due to potential for self harm. For years he was the kid who could not take constructive criticism.

I'm not talking about strong opinions or radical opinions. I have my fair share too. I'm talking about how they deal with minor to medium setbacks.
 
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GMRfellowtraveller

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Well, I don't really even know what normal is other than relatively speaking. What's normal is malleable and like you said, in 20 years time, we might be looking back on these discussions from a different, perhaps markedly different than how we perceive it now. My perceptions have changed a lot over the last 20 years, due in no small part to reading perspectives or guys like you, SBTB, ward, @Ayo, @First Time Poster among numerous others. As much as I've learned, I continue to want to not only learn more, but be a better person and critique my own worldview.

I don't think necessarily that all answers are in the middle. But I think as a frame of reference, we do have to start somewhere, and usually for me it's in the middle, but I might end up a long way from there after honest and open consideration. Even then, that doesn't necessarily make me more right, or smarter than anyone else, but I do think self-evaluation is always a challenge, and that certainly applies in perceptions about race. As a white male, my life experiences are vastly different than a lot of minorities. That I grew up with numerous black friends don't mean I understand what they deal with every day. I don't pretend to, but I do think we can ask questions and find a way to understanding each other.

Unless I misunderstood, I don't think ward was saying race is a binary issue. I thought he was saying the opposite. We tend to think of race issues in binary terms, but what about nuance, what about things that maybe are ultimately trivial compared to other larger issues. What criteria are we using to determine what's important? I would imagine my criteria would be pretty different from someone who has had a much different life experience than I have.

I'm really willing to listen and use what I learn appropriately.
and that's why i love you
 

DaveXA

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Fair points. And I'll delve into them later. I wanted to hear my thoughts first, if possible.

But for some quick examples. My wife's stress had lead to her shoulders and neck locking up multiple times and a few other medical things. I dont want to get specific, but I'd say her biggest need is serenity. Not a middle ground.

My step son dropped his cell phone when he was in HS and the screen shattered. He had a near nervous breakdown at school and was on the verge of being baker acted due to potential for self harm. For years he was the kid who could not take constructive criticism.

I'm not talking about strong opinions or radical opinions. I have my fair share too. I'm talking about how they deal with minor to medium setbacks.
Yeah, my wife and I definitely see certain problems we have in a much different light. It's more than the "men are from Mars, women from Venus" thing. For example, today she asked me if we were going to return to ministry. And I told her I wasn't planning on it, and I reminded her that I told her a couple of years ago that all I'm thinking about is working and taking care of the family. This entire time, it was still in her head that we were still living like we'd return to ministry full-time, but that wasn't remotely what I was thinking about.

She made a big thing of it and wondered why we're even still here even though I have a secure job making a reasonable amount of money. In my head I was like, we discussed this! But for her, she just internalized everything differently. She's just now coming around to the idea that we've moved on, even though I'd already moved on 3 years ago.

My wife just processes information and experiences differently than I do. Which is perfectly fine. We've been married 20+ years and I've learned to live with the fact that we're different and I try to be sensitive to that when making decisions.
 

wardorican

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I fixed my last post.. no idea why I typed "my thoughts first", I wanted to hear "more thoughts first" from others.
 

V Chip

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The fact that multiple investigations into in-person voter fraud have turned up statistically nothing and that these investigations were ALL led by Republicans should tell you exactly how much of a strawman "in-person voter fraud" is.
Another example.

 

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