New Poll on Police Shooting of Black Men (2 Viewers)

[Farb]

https://www.skeptic.com/research-center/reports/Research-Report-CUPES-007.pdf

(the answer is at the maximum 27)

I heard about this new poll from a podcast I listen to on the regular. To me, this is disturbing to say the least. We allowed idiots to burn down private businesses and cities because of the horrible reporting and the narrative pushed by politicians the media.

If we as a country are going to move forward (I am not so sure we do move forward as a country) we need to have actual fact based discussions that are not based on feeling and implied intent. There is a rush in the country to label any perceived injustice as race based and obviously this is not the case in reality but it does make nice headlines and gather votes.

 

[samiam5211]

I agree 100% with this. I mean absolutely 100%.
But it also should be be asked, where would the lazy public get their information?
The answer is the media and the stump speeches from politicians.

The media draws up a narrative that black men and being 'hunted down in the streets' by cops. The politicians echo this false narrative and the other side is too scared to ask for proof because then the media and the woke mob will label them as 'racist' so they remain silent so they can hopefully hold on to the power they have.
In my opinion, this is why the lazy and ignorant public, regardless of their political leanings believe something so false.

I am well aware of what BLM is concerned with as are most of the poster here because we are not all that lazy and ignorant. If you all want to have a discussion just focusing on BLM and their beliefs and end goals I would enjoy that too and I would be glad to start the thread on BLM

You believe the public is lazy because the media is hyperbolic?

I believe the media is hyperbolic because the public is stupid and lazy.

Did you start this thread because you wanted a chicken/egg debate?

What was the initial point you were hoping to make with this thread? You have yet to state a coherent point.

 

[Farb]

You believe the public is lazy because the media is hyperbolic?

I believe the media is hyperbolic because the public is stupid and lazy.

Did you start this thread because you wanted a chicken/egg debate?

What was the initial point you were hoping to make with this thread? You have yet to state a coherent point.

Media and Politicans...can't have one with out the other (oh, no, another chicken/egg debate!)

Feel free to read my initial post if you need help implying my intent. You are helping with my point, so thanks for engaging in this one.

 

[SystemShock]

Granted we have zero context

... like that matters to a narrative

 

[SystemShock]

So, if you go to the source, the notes at the bottom of the graph were cropped. Specifically this one the authors labeled as “important”

The number 27 represents reporting from less than one third of the law enforcement agencies, and the data is self reported and voluntary. The authors themselves admit that the number may be closer to 60-100 unarmed black men killed by police in 2019, but that is a guess.

I find it a bit weird that this sort of survey, which isn’t at all rigorous scientifically, is being used to assert that the whole idea of racial inequity in policing is “made up”. It’s a bit unusual, the logic is suspect at the very least.

I don't find it unusual at all. This is the type of dressing they give their narratives.

 

[SystemShock]

I agree 100% with this. I mean absolutely 100%.
But it also should be be asked, where would the lazy public get their information/misinformation/disinformation?
The answer is the media and the stump speeches from our politicians.

The media draws up a narrative that black men and being 'hunted down in the streets' by cops. The politicians echo this false narrative and the other side is too scared to ask for proof because then the media and the woke mob will label them as 'racist' so they remain silent so they can hopefully hold on to the power they have.
In my opinion, this is why the lazy and ignorant public, regardless of their political leanings, believe something so false.

I am well aware of what BLM is concerned with as are most of the poster here because we are not all that lazy and ignorant. If you all want to have a discussion just focusing on BLM and their beliefs and end goals I would enjoy that too and I would be glad to start the thread on BLM

You call out the lazy public and misinformation, all the while posting a pseudo-scientific, misleading survey which was used by Tucker Carlson in the same piece he said he could not find evidence of QAnon.

 

[bdb13]

You call out the lazy public and misinformation, all the while posting a pseudo-scientific, misleading survey which was used by Tucker Carlson in the same piece he said he could not find evidence of QAnon.

He said what now?

 

[MT15]

He had a completely silly segment where he feigns ignorance about Qanon. Claimed it was made up by libs or something. Said it turns out he couldn’t find any evidence of it anywhere online. He actually said “Its not even a website”.

Tucker is a complete clown at this point.

 

[DaveXA]

He had a completely silly segment where he feigns ignorance about Qanon. Claimed it was made up by libs or something. Said it turns out he couldn’t find any evidence of it anywhere online. He actually said “Its not even a website”.

Tucker is a complete clown at this point.

At this point? I can assure you, he's been a complete clown for years.

 

[Saintamaniac]

ut it also should be be asked, where would the lazy public get their information/misinformation/disinformation?

I would say that the people you call the lazy public should not be getting misinformation or disinformation at all. (Warning! Both sides do it coming in!) I'm not naive to believe that there are not liberal misinformation/disinformation. I would argue that is it not near as purposely done as that of right-wing misinformation / disinformation. Far forks sake, CPAC has a golden damn calf type statue of a two-time impeached, habitual lying insurrection inciting former president that they are currently worshipping. Misinformation and disinformation is a disservice to the American people whether it is from the left or right and especially from the right.

I am well aware of what BLM is concerned with as are most of the poster here because we are not all that lazy and ignorant. If you all want to have a discussion just focusing on BLM and their beliefs and end goals I would enjoy that too and I would be glad to start the thread on BLM

Tell me. What kind of honest discussion can I have with you on BLM after you purposely post a misleading poll which seems to suggest that you are against the very notion that Black Lives Matter?

 

[J-DONK]

The question and the only question I asked is why would huge sections of our population be so completely wrong on the actual number, or even ballpark number, of how many unarmed black men were killed by Police. This number is the reason we were told they needed to burn down the local taco shop because of this one particular injustice. Only thing is the number doesn't justify the action.

Inside The Counted: how Guardian US has tracked police killings nationwide

Since last year, Guardian reporters have documented and exposed deaths at the hands of law enforcement across the US

www.theguardian.com

Last year, the reporters working on the project counted more than 1,100 deaths, meaning people were killed at more than twice the rate last documented by the FBI, which relied on police departments choosing to submit data. Among The Counted’s many other striking findings were that young black men were being killed by police at nine times the rate of other Americans, and that African Americans killed by police were twice as likely as white people to have been unarmed.

 

[bdb13]

He had a completely silly segment where he feigns ignorance about Qanon. Claimed it was made up by libs or something. Said it turns out he couldn’t find any evidence of it anywhere online. He actually said “Its not even a website”.

Tucker is a complete clown at this point.

Damn.. makes sense though I guess, don't want to acknowledge the existence of the terroristic/absolutely batshit crazy wing of the Trump/Republican party.

Not like some of us haven't actually, you know, seen and heard from Qanon cultists in our own personal lives... But sure, must be my lying eyes and ears..

 

[samiam5211]

Media and Politicans...can't have one with out the other (oh, no, another chicken/egg debate!)

Feel free to read my initial post if you need help implying my intent. You are helping with my point, so thanks for engaging in this one.

you’re welcome.

Interesting choice of topic to start a discussion over a misinformed public.

Covid would have been a better choice if that was truly your interest, but we both know that your thread is more driven by your belief that racism is not really a problem, which is just a defense mechanism to protect your denial of white privilege.

 

[MT15]

The question and the only question I asked is why would huge sections of our population be so completely wrong on the actual number, or even ballpark number, of how many unarmed black men were killed by Police. This number is the reason we were told they needed to burn down the local taco shop because of this one particular injustice. Only thing is the number doesn't justify the action.

One other thought, strictly from a numbers standpoint, the authors make specific mention that significant numbers of ultra liberal and liberal participants in the survey were off by an order of magnitude on the numbers of unarmed black men killed by police. But they make no mention of the opposite side, a plurality of the conservative and ultra conservative participants were also off by an order of magnitude, they responded about 10, when the actual number is more likely 10x that amount.

And the survey allowed respondents to self-identify as to where they fit on the idealogical spectrum. It’s just not a scientifically valid or useful survey, IMO, unless you just want to use it anecdotally.

 

[Farb]

you’re welcome.

Interesting choice of topic to start a discussion over a misinformed public.

Covid would have been a better choice if that was truly your interest, but we both know that your thread is more driven by your belief that racism is not really a problem, which is just a defense mechanism to protect your denial of white privilege.

I don't recall anit-makers or anti-lockdown militants burning down cities over false covid policies, maybe I missed it. Can you show me?
I can show you ignorant and lazy people burning down cities and killing fellow citizens because of a false narrative created by an organization with ill intent, perpetuated by a incompetent media machine and a cowardly and corrupt political parties.

According to the WaPo database, these are the numbers of actual deaths of unarmed black men. Do these numbers justify rioting?

They are skewed a bit because a couple of those listed, were not armed with a weapon but still posed a threat to the officer.

Can we all agree that Antifa and Qanon are the same boogey man for each other's radicals? Both want violence, both founded in make believe and both are really just ideas/movements and neither have a website? Both are fringe, easily led crackpots.

 

[Farb]

One other thought, strictly from a numbers standpoint, the authors make specific mention that significant numbers of ultra liberal and liberal participants in the survey were off by an order of magnitude on the numbers of unarmed black men killed by police. But they make no mention of the opposite side, a plurality of the conservative and ultra conservative participants were also off by an order of magnitude, they responded about 10, when the actual number is more likely 10x that amount.

And the survey allowed respondents to self-identify as to where they fit on the idealogical spectrum. It’s just not a scientifically valid or useful survey, IMO, unless you just want to use it anecdotally.

I agree with most of this, and I find the same questions when poll shows something you guys like.
The only thing I will push back on is you are saying the number of unarmed black men killed by cops is 100? Where do you get this number?

 

[bdb13]

The poll is weird to me as far as the denominations available to answer with... The gap between 1 and 100, 100 and 1,000, and 1,000 and 10,000.. are large and there's no option to cut the difference and say "I think 500 people.." that part of it just seems like a odd way to conduct it to me.

 

[Nebaghead]

I don't recall anit-makers or anti-lockdown militants burning down cities over false covid policies, maybe I missed it. Can you show me?
I can show you ignorant and lazy people burning down cities and killing fellow citizens because of a false narrative created by an organization with ill intent, perpetuated by a incompetent media machine and a cowardly and corrupt political parties.

According to the WaPo database, these are the numbers of actual deaths of unarmed black men. Do these numbers justify rioting?

They are skewed a bit because a couple of those listed, were not armed with a weapon but still posed a threat to the officer.

Can we all agree that Antifa and Qanon are the same boogey man for each other's radicals? Both want violence, both founded in make believe and both are really just ideas/movements and neither have a website? Both are fringe, easily led crackpots.

I guess you forgot the plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan.

 

[RobF]

The question and the only question I asked is why would huge sections of our population be so completely wrong on the actual number, or even ballpark number, of how many unarmed black men were killed by Police.

Because people see reporting on specific incidents and wildly extrapolate from that. We don't have widespread media that presents calm, dispassionate, overviews, that are carefully considered by the public at large. And this affects perceptions of pretty much everything. Here's an example from a few years ago from this side of the pond, where we have the same issues:

British public wrong about nearly everything, survey shows

Research shows public opinion often deviates from facts on key social issues including crime, benefit fraud and immigration

www.independent.co.uk

This number is the reason we were told they needed to burn down the local taco shop because of this one particular injustice. Only thing is the number doesn't justify the action.

This is where your post basically falls down, because the protests are justified by the continual systemic discrimination people are facing, of which these particular injustices are part. They're not justified "because there's hundreds of black people being killed by the police, but everything would be fine if it was ten." That's not a thing.