Israel vs Hamas (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[SystemShock]

There has always been a contingent of anti-Israel/pro-Palestine groups around. The war has just given them a larger platform.

But this level of extremism? From someone who had no connection to Gaza?
There have always been sides in the Israel-Palestine conflict, but this is different. It's like it is fashionable to condemn the U.S. for what Israel is doing, and root for terrorist organizations.

Just 15-20 years ago, if you had told me people would be pro-Putin and pro-Hamas in the U.S., in the numbers they are, and doing the things they are doing, I'd have laughed at you and told you you were nuts.

 

[SystemShock]

How many tens (hundreds?) of thousands refugees are trying to find somewhere safe in Palestine?
If they were fighting instead, the IDF would be hoeing a much more difficult row.

And you don't think the IDF would conscript more men and women if that were the case?

 

[Taurus]

And you don't think the IDF would conscript more men and women if that were the case?

And then we'd have an honest to goodness war. With the Palestinians playing the part of North Vietnam.

 

[coldseat]

There is no viable Palestinian State in Gaza or the West Bank. At this point, the best solution is for Palestinians to migrate to other countries. There's a number of countries in the ME that have plenty of resources to easily absorb them. But nobody wants them and they don't wan to leave, so...

IMO, I don't think removing aid to Israel will deter them or convince them to settle with the Palestinians.

Yes, because mass migration is clearly an option that works well (looks at our southern border ... .)

Those middle eastern countries don't have an obligation to absorb mass migrations of people because of a problem that was created from Israel's creation. That is a problem for Israel and the western democracies that created Israel to solve with the Palestinians.

Removing or placing significant restrictions on the aid we give Israel is one of the only ways that we will force them to deal with the problem in a way that doesn't encourage the continued mass slaughter of Palestinian civilian in Gaza.

 

[SystemShock]

Yes, because mass migration is clearly an option that works well (looks at our southern border ... .)

It may not be an optimal solution, but at this point, there isn't one.

Those middle eastern countries don't have an obligation to absorb mass migrations of people because of a problem that was created from Israel's creation. That is a problem for Israel and the western democracies that created Israel to solve with the Palestinians.

And the solution for those Western democracies is simply letting Israel deal with the problem. Gaza has no value to the Western world.

Removing or placing significant restrictions on the aid we give Israel is one of the only ways that we will force them to deal with the problem in a way that doesn't encourage the continued mass slaughter of Palestinian civilian in Gaza.

I doubt the Israelis will bend even if aid is not provided by the U.S.

 

[SystemShock]

And then we'd have an honest to goodness war. With the Palestinians playing the part of North Vietnam.

Gaza has ~2M residents. Israel ~7M. It wouldn't be an "honest to goodness war", as if there are any. Besides, it was the Palestinian who decided to go to war without declaring it.

 

[Taurus]

Gaza has ~2M residents. Israel ~7M. It wouldn't be an "honest to goodness war", as if there are any. Besides, it was the Palestinian who decided to go to war without declaring it.

I'd say it was Israel. That Zerg creep they've been doing for decades is the equivalent of an undeclared war.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I've read and heard people saying lately, not just here as some of my friends have said it, that people people mistakenly distinguish Hamas with Palestinians. because Hamas are Palestinians.

As far as I know, it's true that all members of Hamas are likely Palestinian, but the reverse is definitively not true, not all Palestinians are involved with Hamas or support Hamas.

All MAGA are Americans, but not all Americans are involved with or support MAGA.

So to distinguish between Hamas and Palestinians is both an accurate distinction and a very important one to make.

 

[coldseat]

It may not be an optimal solution, but at this point, there isn't one.

And the solution for those Western democracies is simply letting Israel deal with the problem. Gaza has no value to the Western world.

And in turn, Israel keeps creating more headaches for Western democracies by being a constant force of destabilization in the Middle East along with all of the other destabilizing forces. Maybe Western democracies need to put more pressure on Israel to act differently.

I doubt the Israelis will bend even if aid is not provided by the U.S.

Let's find out first. At the very least, we as a country can be less complicit in what Israel is doing and stop protecting them at the UN and in other venues.

 

[SystemShock]

And in turn, Israel keeps creating more headaches for Western democracies by being a constant force of destabilization in the Middle East along with all of the other destabilizing forces. Maybe Western democracies need to put more pressure on Israel to act differently.

Can't say I disagree.

Let's find out first. At the very least, we as a country can be less complicit in what Israel is doing and stop protecting them at the UN and in other venues.

Can't say I disagree, I just don't think it'd help.

 

[SaintForLife]

Wtf? Take until March to follow international law?

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Wtf? Take until March to follow international law?

Where's the uproar from Congress??? Have you shared your displeasure with our stance on Israel with your congressman? Have they voiced their opinion to POTUS?

 

[SaintForLife]

Where's the uproar from Congress??? Have you shared your displeasure with our stance on Israel with you congressman? Have they voiced their opinion to POTUS?

I've emailed both of my Senators and Congressman about Ukraine and Isreal and to stop funding wars and focus on our country.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I've emailed both of my Senators and Congressman about Ukraine and Isreal and to stop funding wars and focus on our country.

I'm talking about Israel in particular, stop conflating these two separate conflicts! Have you conveyed to them your displeasure with Israel's actions and our direct support to those actions?

 

[Heathen]

Wtf? Take until March to follow international law?

That ought to give Israel time to get some folks out of the south of Gaza.

Again, politics aside..i don't know why we've waited almost 5 months to do this. It's baffling.

 

[SaintForLife]

I'm talking about Israel in particular, stop conflating these two separate conflicts! Have you conveyed to them your displeasure with Israel's actions and our direct support to those actions?

Because I included both in a sentence means I'm conflating the two wars?

Yes I conveyed my displeasure with Isreal and Ukraine in separate emails multiple times.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Because I included both in a sentence means I'm conflating the two wars?

Yes I conveyed my displeasure with Isreal and Ukraine in separate emails multiple times.

Fine. Then why aren't you calling them out for not holding Israel responsible for their obvious war crimes? Why does Congress gets a pass? If Congress wanted to change our stance on Israel, they most certainly could, and yet, crickets from them, you and the overwhelming majority of Americans. Why is that?

 

[SaintForLife]

That ought to give Israel time to get some folks out of the south of Gaza.

Again, politics aside..i don't know why we've waited almost 5 months to do this. It's baffling.

I was fine with Isreal doing what they needed to do to get the hostages back and deal with Hamas, but Isreal has taken it way too far.

Biden's unconditional support for Isreal as they continue to commit genocide is absolutely appalling.