Israel vs Hamas (3 Viewers)

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    GrandAdmiral

    GrandAdmiral

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    Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

    www.cnn.com

    Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

    Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.
    www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
     
    what a socking revelation
    www.cnn.com

    Exclusive: Nearly half of the Israeli munitions dropped on Gaza are imprecise ‘dumb bombs,’ US intelligence assessment finds | CNN Politics

    Nearly half of the air-to-ground munitions that Israel has used in Gaza in its war with Hamas since October 7 have been unguided, otherwise known as “dumb bombs,” according to a new US intelligence assessment.
    www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

    Major Keren Hajioff, an Israeli spokesperson, said on Wednesday that “as a military committed to international law and a moral code of conduct, we are devoting vast resources to minimizing harm to the civilians that Hamas has forced into the role of human shields. Our war is against Hamas, not against the people of Gaza.”

    But experts told CNN that if Israel is using unguided munitions at the rate the US believes they are, that undercuts the Israeli claim that they are trying to minimize civilian casualties


    www.cnn.com

    Rifts between Biden and Netanyahu spill into public view | CNN Politics

    Rifts between the United States and Israel spilled into public view Tuesday as President Joe Biden warned that Israel was losing international support for its campaign against Hamas and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu publicly rejected American plans for post-war Gaza.
    www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

    Biden said right now Israel “has most of the world supporting it,” but said “they’re starting to lose that support by the indiscriminate bombing that takes place.”
     
    MT15 said:
    I know that Palestinians live in Israel. I’m saying that Jews would be hesitant to live in a future Palestinian state, when so many Palestinians are calling for extermination of the Jewish people.
    Click to expand...

    It makes sense - honestly, I feel like living in that area will be in one of if not the most dangerous time periods in history. And Israeli citizens could be subject to attacks like Oct. 7th, happening from potentially many places..Who could feel safe?

    On the other side for Palestinians - it's on an entirely different level. What the IDF has done to absolutely level Gaza and wipe out a portion of the civilian population under the guise of 'we just want to get rid of Hamas' has created probably generations of people who will commit to violence against those that killed their people.

    Could anyone imagine what news headlines would read if Jerusalem was being leveled and tens of thousands of Jews slaughtered over 3 months? It would be an international outrage - as it should be. But because it's the Palestinian people.....well, you know. I believe that this truly will go down in history alongside other genocidal campaigns.

    I feel very deeply for the innocent people in both Palestine and Israel in all of this. No one deserves it, and everyone who commits atrocities should be held accountable.
     
    Last edited:
    Heathen said:
    It makes sense - honestly, I feel like living in that area will be in one of if not the most dangerous time periods in history. And Israeli citizens could be subject to attacks like Oct. 7th, happening from potentially many places..Who could feel safe?

    On the other side for Palestinians - it's on an entirely different level. What the IDF has done to absolutely level Gaza and wipe out a portion of the civilian population under the guise of 'we just want to get rid of Hamas' has created probably generations of people who will commit to violence against those that killed their people.

    Could anyone imagine what news headlines would read if Jerusalem was being leveled and tens of thousands of Jews slaughtered over 3 months? It would be an international outrage - as it should be. But because it's the Palestinian people.....well, you know. I believe that this truly will go down in history alongside other genocidal campaigns.

    I feel very deeply for the innocent people in both Palestine and Israel in all of this. No one deserves it, and everyone who commits atrocities should be held accountable.
    Click to expand...


    I agree with all the above, and add that by the time IDF is done, how much of Gaza will actually be livable or able to sustain the (remaining) population? It will created an even bigger humanitarian crisis. Almost as if Bibi and IDf want to bomb them back to the stone age. Ironically, I read that they knew like a year in advance that there were some plans afoot, but they chose to brush them off. This whole thing could have possibly, maybe been avoided, or stopped before it began.
     
    I have some questions that I'm sure that some or at least one of you people much smarter and more in the know about Isreal/US relations, than myself, could answer.
    • Question 1: Why does the US allow Isreal to really act like the big brother in this big brother/little brother relationship that we have with them?
    • Question 2: What would happen if Biden picked up the phone, called Netanyahu directly and told him in no uncertain term that he had 48 hours to bring all operations to a halt and that he had 12 hours to make that decision because in 12 hours he would call a press conference to announce that the US intends to end all financial aid / support if Isreal does not begin a ceasefire within the next 24 hours? (Lone question I know.)
    • Question 3: Aside from being "Our only Ally in the Middle East", what does Isreal give us that we can't do or get on our own?
    I look at anti-semitism much the same way I look at racism. Wrong is wrong and there's just no way to justify it. And let me tell you, I've seen how people of my hue are treated in Isreal and I'm sure it goes on here as well. But, I'd still defend anyone being attacked solely on the basis of their religion. I really had no idea that actual/real antisemitism was on the rise that much in the US.
     
    Wonder what the IDF excuse is for this act of terror

    An Israel Defense Forces (IDF) sniper shot and killed two women inside the Holy Family Parish in Gaza on Saturday, according to the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, which oversees Catholic Churches across Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

    The majority of Christian families inside Gaza have taken refuge inside the parish since the start of the war, the patriarchate said in a statement.

    The two women, described as a mother and daughter, were walking to the Sister’s Convent, the patriarchate said. “One was killed as she tried to carry the other to safety,” it added.
    Click to expand...


    The patriarchate said that IDF tanks had also targeted the Convent of the Sisters of Mother Theresa, which houses 54 disabled people and is part of the church’s compound. The building’s generator, its only current source of electricity, as well as its fuel resources, solar panels and water tanks were also destroyed.
    Click to expand...

    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/16/middleeast/idf-sniper-gaza-church-deaths-intl-hnk/index.html
     
    Saintamaniac said:
    I have some questions that I'm sure that some or at least one of you people much smarter and more in the know about Isreal/US relations, than myself, could answer.
    • Question 1: Why does the US allow Isreal to really act like the big brother in this big brother/little brother relationship that we have with them?
    • Question 2: What would happen if Biden picked up the phone, called Netanyahu directly and told him in no uncertain term that he had 48 hours to bring all operations to a halt and that he had 12 hours to make that decision because in 12 hours he would call a press conference to announce that the US intends to end all financial aid / support if Isreal does not begin a ceasefire within the next 24 hours? (Lone question I know.)
    • Question 3: Aside from being "Our only Ally in the Middle East", what does Isreal give us that we can't do or get on our own?
    I look at anti-semitism much the same way I look at racism. Wrong is wrong and there's just no way to justify it. And let me tell you, I've seen how people of my hue are treated in Isreal and I'm sure it goes on here as well. But, I'd still defend anyone being attacked solely on the basis of their religion. I really had no idea that actual/real antisemitism was on the rise that much in the US.
    Click to expand...
    I think the outsized importance of Israel has, sadly, a lot to do with evangelical support. A lot of evangelicals see Israel as the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy and will never criticize or do anything to check them. I don’t think Biden sees it that way, but there are so many evangelicals in Congress, or at least politicians who feel like they have to appease these folks, that he knows he has very little room for overt criticisms. I do think Biden will (or maybe has been) working behind the scenes. But ultimately, the Israeli people will have to wrest control back from religious fanatics who Bibi has emboldened.

    Israel gives us a mini-lesson, if you will, into what happens when you let religious extremists gain political power. It’s bad news for everyone in the country, and everyone surrounding them as well.
     
    wtf is wrong with people. I just cannot understand the psychology to willfully be so malicious towards one another. Stories like these make me think the plant would be better off without us

    www.cbsnews.com

    Doctor who treated freed Hamas hostages describes physical, sexual and psychological abuse

    Dr. Itai Pessach describes to CBS News' Lesley Stahl the harrowing physical and psychological abuses he says Hamas perpetrated upon its captives, from branding to rape, as well as the traumas that people on both sides of the war are experiencing.
    www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
     
    www.nytimes.com

    Israelis Abandon Political Left Over Security Concerns After Oct. 7

    Disenchanted by the prospect for peace after a devastating terrorist attack, Israelis are becoming more conservative in their politics.
    www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

    In the wellspring of sadness, anger and fear that has gripped Israel since that day, a consensus has emerged that Israel needs to take a harder line with the Palestinians and embrace an even more militarized state. And while public opinion of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is faltering, support for the policies upheld by his right-wing government is growing.

    If the left has lost mainstream support, Israel’s peace camp has been driven virtually underground. Activist groups say many members have abandoned the cause, and those who remain committed have struggled to find public places willing to accommodate antiwar protests.

    The few calls for a cease-fire, which have gained traction with the public, have been driven by the families of Israeli hostages abducted to Gaza on Oct. 7. Those families have asked the government to pause the fighting to negotiate a return of their loved ones. While those calls grew stronger this week after the Israeli army announced it had mistakenly killed three hostages, most of the families have stressed that they broadly support the war effort, and think it is necessary.

    According to polls conducted in the two months since Oct. 7, Israelis have moved decidedly to the right on a number of political issues, including support for settlers in the West Bank, endorsements for far-right politicians, and even the re-establishment of a military occupation of Gaza.
     

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