Israel vs Hamas (3 Viewers)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[DaveXA]

Truly curious here...what does 'I support Israel' mean, exactly?

I see many Americans who say this and I can only guess that it is primarily through a religious context (may be wrong).

Many do so through religious context yes. Many others have personal connections with people in Israel. And others have their own reasons.

I don't understand why anyone could be supportive of that regime in any way. Defend their right to exist in peace? Of course..And I believe you'll find that's the consistent view of most. But their policies of explicit rights deprivation, segregation and dispossession against the Palestinian people are indefensible.

As you stated, defend their right to exist in peace. Precisely what I mean by supporting Israel. I'm no fan of Bibi and how he's behaving in response to the massacre, but we can't pretend to have moral authority considering the US response to 9/11, and other countries' response when provoked. I'm seeing some pretty blatant double standards by many critics of Israel.

No doubt they deserve some criticism, but I would hope those criticisms would come from a position of objectivity.

 

[zztop]

Thousands break into aid warehouses in Gaza as deaths top 8,000 and Israel widens ground offensive

A U.N. agency says thousands of people have broken into aid warehouses in Gaza to take flour and basic hygiene products. It’s a sign of growing desperation three weeks into the war between Israel and Gaza’s Hamas rulers.

apnews.com

 

[MT15]

This guy continues to debunk disinformation, only now he is explaining how he does it in a thread. Click on this post to see, it’s pretty interesting:

 

[MT15]

This thread is a good distillation of some of the issues in this war. I agree with most everything he says here. It’s a very complicated situation and we should not pretend otherwise.

 

[MT15]

 

[MT15]

Fearmongering for clicks:

 

[MT15]

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

What was the point of that? There actually were protests in Paris they could have used pictures of.

 

[MT15]

What was the point of that? There actually were protests in Paris they could have used pictures of.

Maybe they weren’t scary enough to invoke WW3? At this point I don’t really believe much of anything that randomly shows up on the internet. And even some of the MSM reports draw from sketchy sources as we have seen.

Like the big Cornell flap - saying that Jewish students were being threatened on a Cornell message board - and don’t get me wrong - the posts were vile and threatening - but it actually wasn’t a Cornell message board but a public message board about Cornell that anyone could post to. So it is entirely possible that none of the threats came from actual Cornell students. Could have been run-of-the-mill anti-Semites that weren’t local. Heck they could have been anywhere in the world.

Out of an abundance of caution, the Jewish student association asked Jewish students to avoid the kosher dining hall on campus and basically stay in their dorms. Which is awful. We just don’t know whether any of those threats were credible, and it just leads to more chaos and division, though.

I read the posts about the threatening messages and didn’t read the explanation that it wasn’t a student only forum until a day or so later. It’s easy to get the wrong impression these days.

 

[coldseat]

Maybe they weren’t scary enough to invoke WW3? At this point I don’t really believe much of anything that randomly shows up on the internet. And even some of the MSM reports draw from sketchy sources as we have seen.

Like the big Cornell flap - saying that Jewish students were being threatened on a Cornell message board - and don’t get me wrong - the posts were vile and threatening - but it actually wasn’t a Cornell message board but a public message board about Cornell that anyone could post to. So it is entirely possible that none of the threats came from actual Cornell students. Could have been run-of-the-mill anti-Semites that weren’t local. Heck they could have been anywhere in the world.

Out of an abundance of caution, the Jewish student association asked Jewish students to avoid the kosher dining hall on campus and basically stay in their dorms. Which is awful. We just don’t know whether any of those threats were credible, and it just leads to more chaos and division, though.

I read the posts about the threatening messages and didn’t read the explanation that it wasn’t a student only forum until a day or so later. It’s easy to get the wrong impression these days.

There is a concerted effort to make everything on college campus appear as some realization of extreme leftist ideology. Everything is either boiled down to Pro-Israel or Pro-Hamas (not Pro-Palestinian). There is no room for nuance or discussion. Ironically, most of those pushing this viewpoint are the "free speech advocates". And of course it's picked up and pushed by right wing media for outrage and by MSM for clicks and the two-sides falsity.

I personally find myself so dismayed by this war and unable to support either side. While I have huge depth of compassion for the Israelis that suffered the atrocities of Hamas' initial attack and where killed or kidnapped, I also have a huge depth of compassion for the Palestinian children and citizens who have been killed and maimed as a result of Israel's response. I acknowledge Israel's right and responsibility to defend itself and it's citizens from terrorism, yet I can't support a country that is willing to indiscriminately mow down innocent children on its path of retribution and achievement of it's goals anymore than I could support a terrorist group that will kill indiscriminately to obtain its objectives. Especially when I don't even believe the objectives that Israel states it's after (the annihilation of Hamas) are even obtainable.

I find myself turning away from news more often today than not and turning more towards distractions like sports. Though I doubt this would ever happen, I'd like to see a shift in US policy to cooperate with and support Israel only with its defensive measure and posture such as the Iron dome, and not support is offensive into Gaza financially or with weapons. Also continue to push harder for much more humanitarian aid into Gaza and for the Palestinians.

 

[coldseat]

This is a clear fork NO for me. We aren't funding another countries war by cutting IRS budget and allowing rich tax cheats to get away with not paying their required taxes. Figures this would be Johnson's first proposal.

================
House Republicans on Monday unveiled a proposal to pay for emergency aid for Israel’s war against Hamas by cutting IRS funds aimed at cracking down on rich tax cheats and improving taxpayer service.

The legislation, released by the House Rules Committee, calls for approving roughly $14 billion primarily in military aid to Israel and cutting about the same amount from the IRS budget. President Biden has proposed giving Israel roughly the same amount in aid but did not call for offsetting cuts to other parts of the budget. The new House speaker, Rep. Mike Johnson (R-La.), has said the new expenditure must be covered by other spending reductions to avoid adding to the debt. Biden also called for the Israel aid to be packaged with roughly $60 billion for Ukraine — an approach the GOP bill rejected.
================

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/30/house-gop-demands-irs-budget-cuts-pay-israel-aid/

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

This is a clear fork NO for me. We aren't funding another countries war by cutting IRS budget and allowing rich tax cheats to get away with not paying their required taxes. Figures this would be Johnson's first proposal.

================
House Republicans on Monday unveiled a proposal to pay for emergency aid for Israel’s war against Hamas by cutting IRS funds aimed at cracking down on rich tax cheats and improving taxpayer service.

The legislation, released by the House Rules Committee, calls for approving roughly $14 billion primarily in military aid to Israel and cutting about the same amount from the IRS budget. President Biden has proposed giving Israel roughly the same amount in aid but did not call for offsetting cuts to other parts of the budget. The new House speaker, Rep. Mike Johnson (R-La.), has said the new expenditure must be covered by other spending reductions to avoid adding to the debt. Biden also called for the Israel aid to be packaged with roughly $60 billion for Ukraine — an approach the GOP bill rejected.
================

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/30/house-gop-demands-irs-budget-cuts-pay-israel-aid/

Dude, fork the GOP! They are truly despicable and the sooner their voters realize that they support these inhumane, authoritarian, radical fake theologians, the better off our country will be. I see NO good coming from that party, they aspire for nothing but power. Pathetic.

 

[efil4]

This is a clear fork NO for me. We aren't funding another countries war by cutting IRS budget and allowing rich tax cheats to get away with not paying their required taxes. Figures this would be Johnson's first proposal.

================
House Republicans on Monday unveiled a proposal to pay for emergency aid for Israel’s war against Hamas by cutting IRS funds aimed at cracking down on rich tax cheats and improving taxpayer service.

The legislation, released by the House Rules Committee, calls for approving roughly $14 billion primarily in military aid to Israel and cutting about the same amount from the IRS budget. President Biden has proposed giving Israel roughly the same amount in aid but did not call for offsetting cuts to other parts of the budget. The new House speaker, Rep. Mike Johnson (R-La.), has said the new expenditure must be covered by other spending reductions to avoid adding to the debt. Biden also called for the Israel aid to be packaged with roughly $60 billion for Ukraine — an approach the GOP bill rejected.
================

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/30/house-gop-demands-irs-budget-cuts-pay-israel-aid/

in
broad
daylight.

they tell you EXACTLY who they represent in Congress.

It aint the everyday citizen.

Ohhh whee this R party has lost its ever-lovin mind. The grabbing hands grab all they can...

 

[SaintForLife]

Dude, fork the GOP! They are truly despicable and the sooner their voters realize that they support these inhumane, authoritarian, radical fake theologians, the better off our country will be. I see NO good coming from that party, they aspire for nothing but power. Pathetic.

I don't agree with what they are proposing to cut, but I definitely agree with paying for the new spending by offset spending cuts. I'm actually surprised that it was even proposed.

Are you that upset because of any cuts being proposed to offset the spending or are you upset about the cuts they proposed?

30 trillion in debt. It's time we stopped putting everything on the credit card.

 

[MT15]

There is a concerted effort to make everything on college campus appear as some realization of extreme leftist ideology. Everything is either boiled down to Pro-Israel or Pro-Hamas (not Pro-Palestinian). There is no room for nuance or discussion. Ironically, most of those pushing this viewpoint are the "free speech advocates". And of course it's picked up and pushed by right wing media for outrage and by MSM for clicks and the two-sides falsity.

I personally find myself so dismayed by this war and unable to support either side. While I have huge depth of compassion for the Israelis that suffered the atrocities of Hamas' initial attack and where killed or kidnapped, I also have a huge depth of compassion for the Palestinian children and citizens who have been killed and maimed as a result of Israel's response. I acknowledge Israel's right and responsibility to defend itself and it's citizens from terrorism, yet I can't support a country that is willing to indiscriminately mow down innocent children on its path of retribution and achievement of it's goals anymore than I could support a terrorist group that will kill indiscriminately to obtain its objectives. Especially when I don't even believe the objectives that Israel states it's after (the annihilation of Hamas) are even obtainable.

I find myself turning away from news more often today than not and turning more towards distractions like sports. Though I doubt this would ever happen, I'd like to see a shift in US policy to cooperate with and support Israel only with its defensive measure and posture such as the Iron dome, and not support is offensive into Gaza financially or with weapons. Also continue to push harder for much more humanitarian aid into Gaza and for the Palestinians.

I agree with you, largely. I do think Biden’s Admin is putting a lot of pressure on Bibi behind the scenes. I’m extremely glad we have Biden instead of any random GOPer who probably wouldn’t be working to contain this war at all.

 

[MT15]

I don't agree with what they are proposing to cut, but I definitely agree with paying for the new spending by offset spending cuts. I'm actually surprised that it was even proposed.

Are you that upset because of any cuts being proposed to offset the spending or are you upset about the cuts they proposed?

30 trillion in debt. It's time we stopped putting everything on the credit card.

It’s fine to be fiscally responsible but these cuts are not that. The funding to the IRS will pay for itself many times over. Cuts to that particular agency serve only to protect tax cheats - the worst of which are huge corporations and the extremely wealthy. It is just Rs protecting the donor class - which line their pockets.

 

[samiam5211]

I don't agree with what they are proposing to cut, but I definitely agree with paying for the new spending by offset spending cuts. I'm actually surprised that it was even proposed.

Are you that upset because of any cuts being proposed to offset the spending or are you upset about the cuts they proposed?

30 trillion in debt. It's time we stopped putting everything on the credit card.

The debt doesn't matter.

it never will.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I don't agree with what they are proposing to cut, but I definitely agree with paying for the new spending by offset spending cuts. I'm actually surprised that it was even proposed.

Are you that upset because of any cuts being proposed to offset the spending or are you upset about the cuts they proposed?

30 trillion in debt. It's time we stopped putting everything on the credit card.

Whatever dude. The Republicans have only added to the debt with every administration since Reagan and the previous administration was the worse of them all.