Israel vs Hamas (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[samiam5211]

It was, but when the outside world realizes the thing that drove them was a false flag attack, they're (Hamas and supporters) gonna lose any sort of support they would have had otherwise.

I doubt it. It hasn't changed anything about how I feel.

Of course, I wasn't a Hamas supporter. I don't think most of the people protesting outside the region are actually Hamas supporters either.

There were still thousands of civilians who've been killed by Israeli air strikes, and more is coming.

 

[Lapaz]

I see Israel as a traumatized population that isn’t really an ideal ally. They live in an area surrounded by nations that either hate or tolerate them. This leads them to misbehave at times. Their retaliations are not proportional, and they expect total tolerance of their actions. The problem is that some of their neighbors are worse. Israel is like a very troubled friend that is constantly in trouble. Such friends won’t take advice. You want to remove yourself from their drama. Sometimes those friends do things you don’t approve of that gets them in trouble, yet you bail them out. Sometimes those relationships have to be severed. The problem is that you know that that would lead to a repeat of the disasters that caused your friend to become traumatized to begin with.

We know many Israelis want to take advice, but they are led by an obstinate warmonger that is straining the relationship. I don’t know if Palestinians can live in peace with Israel if they got their own state, but I don’t think the obstinate right wing will even give that a chance. Anything is better than continuing what they have been doing. Such a relationship is bad for America.

 

[MT15]

I think the hospital was just a spark, the fire is lit now.

I doubt there is going to be any calming the people down, because they aren't really just mad about the hospital, it was just the thing that sent them into the streets.

Yes, it accomplished what they wanted, which was to scuttle Biden‘s Arab portion of his visit.

 

[DaveXA]

I doubt it. It hasn't changed anything about how I feel.

Of course, I wasn't a Hamas supporter. I don't think most of the people protesting outside the region are actually Hamas supporters either.

There were still thousands of civilians who've been killed by Israeli air strikes, and more is coming.

Considering the sources of those numbers and how often things are being incorrectly reported, I'm highly skeptical of any reporting coming out of Gaza unless they are witness accounts from independent sources. "Palestinian authorities/officials" are almost certainly Hamas officials or sympathizers.

I really think the media is making a mistake by relying on them for intel. It's imperative that they vet their sources. What I've often seen are media quoting or referencing other media and not relying on their own sources.

I have no doubt there are Palestinians losing their lives in this conflict, but I'm not gonna rely on questionable reporting to support anything.

That same media ran with the beheaded babies thing too. So there's plenty of disinformation on both sides.

 

[MT15]

BBC report. IMO it is what IDF said - a misfire of an Islamic Jihad rocket. A large piece fell on the hospital lot.

 

[superchuck500]

I typically try to avoid applauding the president at a personal level because I don't always think it's necessary or clearly deserved but I think here the president has just threaded the needle here for this phase of the Israel-Gaza conflict. He provided strong support for Israel but also signaled that the humanitarian crisis will be addressed. He used the power/respect of US intelligence to refute the claims of the hospital attack. He gave a thoughtful but realistic speech. And then announced a substantial humanitarian aid package for Gaza that we must assume Israel has consented to and Hamas will have no choice but to allow.

Through the lens of US foreign policy and defined interests, the old man executed this about as strongly as could be done. I can't in a million years imagine Donald Trump pulling that off. There's just no way . He wouldn't have gone because he's a coward. He would have made it all about him if somehow he did. And he would have made things worse by throwing out unfounded accusations against other enemies and just stirred the shirt with little to show for it.

Why people can't recognize these realities is one of the biggest mysteries of current American politics.

 

[zztop]

I see some on the EE topic disputing sources, or numbers etc. To me, it doesn't matter who did it, it doesn't matter if it is 500, or 50, or 5 civilians. Any civilian death(s), on either side, no matter who is responsible, is a tragedy.

 

[zztop]

Through the lens of US foreign policy and defined interests, the old man executed this about as strongly as could be done. I can't in a million years imagine Donald Trump pulling that off. There's just no way . He wouldn't have gone because he's a coward. He would have made it all about him if somehow he did. And he would have made things worse by throwing out unfounded accusations against other enemies and just stirred the shirt with little to show for it.

Why people can't recognize these realities is one of the biggest mysteries of current American politics.

I could see DT going there, and shooting paper towel rolls over the Gaza border wall with one of those t-shirt cannon thingies

 

[DaveXA]

I typically try to avoid applauding the president at a personal level because I don't always think it's necessary or clearly deserved but I think here the president has just threaded the needle here for this phase of the Israel-Gaza conflict. He provided strong support for Israel but also signaled that the humanitarian crisis will be addressed. He used the power/respect of US intelligence to refute the claims of the hospital attack. He gave a thoughtful but realistic speech. And then announced a substantial humanitarian aid package for Gaza that we must assume Israel has consented to and Hamas will have no choice but to allow.

Through the lens of US foreign policy and defined interests, the old man executed this about as strongly as could be done. I can't in a million years imagine Donald Trump pulling that off. There's just no way . He wouldn't have gone because he's a coward. He would have made it all about him if somehow he did. And he would have made things worse by throwing out unfounded accusations against other enemies and just stirred the shirt with little to show for it.

Why people can't recognize these realities is one of the biggest mysteries of current American politics.

I can't this enough. Great post. For all the flack he gets, Biden has been representing our interests about as well as can be done.

I do hope he can get something done with Egypt or Jordan before he heads back home.

 

[DaveXA]

I see some on the EE topic disputing sources, or numbers etc. To me, it doesn't matter who did it, it doesn't matter if it is 500, or 50, or 5 civilians. Any civilian death(s), on either side, no matter who is responsible, is a tragedy.

It absolutely does matter though. Tragic? Yes. And who's accountable? The lion's share since the massacres is Hamas, while Israel gets some of the blame as well.

 

[DaveXA]

I could see DT going there, and shooting paper towel rolls over the Gaza border wall with one of those t-shirt cannon thingies

Lmao, no doubt.

 

[MT15]

This guy is a good moderate to follow on Twitter. I feel his frustration at the media who rushed to publish Hamas’ word on the hospital strike which may have ruined the Arab portion of Biden’s visit. We need him to be able to talk with those leaders right now. The media’s irresponsible behavior in this case may lead to further unnecessary civilian deaths and by running with Hamas’ statement they aided their cause.

 

[MT15]

 

[bdb13]

I could see DT going there, and shooting paper towel rolls over the Gaza border wall with one of those t-shirt cannon thingies

Trump's a arse (not an arse but a word that starts with a p) and would have cited "bone spurs" to keep him out of there..

 

[MT15]

 

[GrandAdmiral]

I typically try to avoid applauding the president at a personal level because I don't always think it's necessary or clearly deserved but I think here the president has just threaded the needle here for this phase of the Israel-Gaza conflict. He provided strong support for Israel but also signaled that the humanitarian crisis will be addressed. He used the power/respect of US intelligence to refute the claims of the hospital attack. He gave a thoughtful but realistic speech. And then announced a substantial humanitarian aid package for Gaza that we must assume Israel has consented to and Hamas will have no choice but to allow.

Through the lens of US foreign policy and defined interests, the old man executed this about as strongly as could be done. I can't in a million years imagine Donald Trump pulling that off. There's just no way . He wouldn't have gone because he's a coward. He would have made it all about him if somehow he did. And he would have made things worse by throwing out unfounded accusations against other enemies and just stirred the shirt with little to show for it.

Why people can't recognize these realities is one of the biggest mysteries of current American politics.

But he also got snubbed for it, which doesn't help the conflict IMO.

Biden snubbed by Middle East allies as Arab world seethes over Gaza hospital blast | CNN

Some of the United States’ closest Arab allies gave President Joe Biden the cold shoulder as he and his diplomats shuttled around the Middle East in an attempt to prevent the Israel-Hamas war from spiraling into a wider regional conflagration.

www.cnn.com

 

[MT15]

To add to Chuck’s earlier point:

 

[MT15]

This is shaping up to be a catastrophic failure of the international media.