Israel vs Hamas (3 Viewers)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[DaveXA]

Whether the reports are to be believed or not, Hamas is now claiming they're now holding 200-250 hostages in Gaza.

 

[MT15]

They’re quickly losing the high moral ground.

That could happen. It’s a definite possibility.

 

[MT15]

Whether the reports are to be believed or not, Hamas is now claiming they're now holding 200-250 hostages in Gaza.

I saw that. Also someone investigating the deaths due to the attack is saying that 80% of the Israeli dead showed signs of torture before death. What a total mess.

 

[samiam5211]

I don't doubt there are deaths unaccounted for to this point, the only question I have is what are the actual numbers and what actually caused them.

yea, but why? Why do you question that 1000 kids have been killed in those 6000 Israeli air strikes. Gaza is the most densely populated place on planet earth. There aren't numbers should any reasonable person should question.

I don't want to post if I'm going to have to post 6 dozen sources for every widely reported fact that is part of what I post.

 

[MT15]

I don't want to post if I'm going to have to post 6 dozen sources for every widely reported fact that is part of what I post.

You haven’t even posted one source though. Or just let us know if Hamas is releasing the numbers or are they independently verified by anyone? We have all seen widely reported numbers that all come from one source before and sometimes they are wrong.

You are questioning the number of civilians slaughtered by Hamas, can you not be even handed about your skepticism? It’s not unreasonable, I don’t think.

 

[DaveXA]

yea, but why? Why do you question that 1000 kids have been killed in those 6000 Israeli air strikes. Gaza is the most densely populated place on planet earth. There aren't numbers should any reasonable person should question.

I don't want to post if I'm going to have to post 6 dozen sources for every widely reported fact that is part of what I post.

I gave my reasons. I was pretty clear on that. I'm not asking you to post a bunch of sources. I'll do my own research and if they're from credible sources, I'll accept that until proven otherwise.

 

[samiam5211]

You haven’t even posted one source though. Or just let us know if Hamas is releasing the numbers or are they independently verified by anyone? We have all seen widely reported numbers that all come from one source before and sometimes they are wrong.

You are questioning the number of civilians slaughtered by Hamas, can you not be even handed about your skepticism? It’s not unreasonable, I don’t think.

When did i question the number of civilians slaughtered by Hamas? Not once have I questioned it. I asked if any of you had questioned it, since you were questioning the universally reported numbers of Palestenians killed.

The number of Palestinians killed has been widely reported. I didn't have to look it up to post it, even CNN is reporting those numbers.

 

[Huntn]

TBH the explosion in that last tweet you posted looks more like an IED than an Israeli air strike.

I accept that possibility. There were reported air strikes on convoys, so the truth of the report is unverified based on this image.

 

[DaveXA]

You haven’t even posted one source though. Or just let us know if Hamas is releasing the numbers or are they independently verified by anyone? We have all seen widely reported numbers that all come from one source before and sometimes they are wrong.

You are questioning the number of civilians slaughtered by Hamas, can you not be even handed about your skepticism? It’s not unreasonable, I don’t think.

Right? I mean, we already have had unsubstantiated reports from Israel. It's not unreasonable at all to question sources and numbers from both sides.

There was the same issue with reporting from Ukraine early in that war. It took weeks and months to verify massacres by Russians taking place in Ukrainian towns. It's not at all unprecedented.

 

[samiam5211]

Has no one bothered to try and find out how many Palestinians have died?

You should really be looking in the mirror wondering why the number of deaths on the "other side" isn't even important enough for you to be curious about.

 

[MT15]

Has no one bothered to try and find out how many Palestinians have died?

You should really be looking in the mirror wondering why the number of deaths on the "other side" isn't even important enough for you to be curious about.

I haven’t looked up death totals from the Hamas attack either. But I’m not the one making claims here.

 

[MT15]

When did i question the number of civilians slaughtered by Hamas? Not once have I questioned it. I asked if any of you had questioned it, since you were questioning the universally reported numbers of Palestenians killed.

I misunderstood. I am not making claims about the number killed, I’m not looking those numbers up either. There is a whole lot of misinformation coming out right now, it’s not wise to get entirely invested in these numbers or accounts at this point.

 

[samiam5211]

I haven’t looked up death totals from the Hamas attack either. But I’m not the one making claims here.

ok

 

[DaveXA]

Has no one bothered to try and find out how many Palestinians have died?

You should really be looking in the mirror wondering why the number of deaths on the "other side" isn't even important enough for you to be curious about.

Because the numbers change all the time in the fog of war. We won't know the actual numbers for a while. The numbers we're seeing are probably not accurate. At least not yet. There's no doubt many Israelis lost their lives in the massacre and there's no doubt many are dying in Gaza. That's enough for me to have sympathy for both Israelis and Palestinians. The numbers will sort themselves out and we'll have a better idea of what the cause of all of this in the aftermath.

 

[V Chip]

Have any of you ever questioned the number of Israeli deaths being reported?

I don't post much on this topic because people get so charged up on both sides at the drop of a hat, but...

I am skeptical of almost any report/tweet posted -- the decapitated babies, the "Israel bombed the convoy", the "this poor woman was obviously raped by Hamas look at the blood on her pants", the "Israel is using white phosphorus" -- I mean there are TONS of things being posted and reported that get proven incorrect, or walked back, or whatever. The misinformation is staggering.

And I see good points being made by both those who say Israel is an apartheid state and has 70 years of crimes against humanity that have helped cause the violence, and by those who condemn Hamas as brutal terrorists who don't care about deaths of their own if it advances their political agenda and kills more Jews, but then those points being buried under "if you don't fully agree with me, you're an extremist supporting the other side" bullshirt takes.

But yes, people are skeptical of a lot of the "facts" being reported. I fear we may never get accurate information because of people pushing their own agendas.

 

[SaintForLife]

I'm wondering how long it will take for the usual suspects to call La-La & Samiam trolls for posting things that contradict the media narrative about the Isreal/Hammas war.

 

[DaveXA]

I don't post much on this topic because people get so charged up on both sides at the drop of a hat, but...

I am skeptical of almost any report/tweet posted -- the decapitated babies, the "Israel bombed the convoy", the "this poor woman was obviously raped by Hamas look at the blood on her pants", the "Israel is using white phosphorus" -- I mean there are TONS of things being posted and reported that get proven incorrect, or walked back, or whatever. The misinformation is staggering.

And I see good points being made by both those who say Israel in an apartheid state and has 70 years of crimes against humanity that have helped cause the violence, and by those who condemn Hamas as brutal terrorists who don't care about deaths of their own if it advances their political agenda and kills more Jews, but then those points being buried under "if you don't fully agree with me, you're an extremist supporting the other side" bullshirt takes.

But yes, people are skeptical of a lot of the "facts" being reported. I fear we may never get accurate information because of people pushing their own agendas.

Well said.

 

[MT15]

I'm wondering how long it will take for the usual suspects to call La-La & Samiam trolls for posting things that contradict the media narrative about the Isreal/Hammas war.

Well, we’re 37 pages in, when do you think it will happen?

Here’s a hint - it won’t happen because both of them are great posters with a great history of contributing solid takes to this site.

Do with this information what you will.