Israel vs Hamas (5 Viewers)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[samiam5211]

FFS






That's NOT attacking Hamas.

That's attacking Israel's future. As shirt like that is going motivate future hate for Israel, with it's leader's feigning they can't understand the rage of the Palestinians towards them.
israel: “Why do the Palestinians hate us?“
(borrowed from another source online)

TBH the explosion in that last tweet you posted looks more like an IED than an Israeli air strike.

 

[efil4]

FFS






That's NOT attacking Hamas.

That's attacking Israel's future. As shirt like that is going motivate future hate for Israel, with it's leader's feigning they can't understand the rage of the Palestinians towards them.
israel: “Why do the Palestinians hate us?“
(borrowed from another source online)

It has been claimed from several sources that Nietinyahu was warned in advance about this attack, by several countries and instead went on vacation. I would not be surprised if his attitude was “let them, then we have justification to destroy them, all of them.”

that is clearly an IED. Not a bomb. An air dropped bomb would have made that entire road ashes, not to mention that it would have been visible in frames immediately prior to the explosion.

 

[DaveXA]

FFS






That's NOT attacking Hamas.

That's attacking Israel's future. As shirt like that is going motivate future hate for Israel, with it's leader's feigning they can't understand the rage of the Palestinians towards them.
israel: “Why do the Palestinians hate us?“
(borrowed from another source online)

It has been claimed from several sources that Nietinyahu was warned in advance about this attack, by several countries and instead went on vacation. I would not be surprised if his attitude was “let them, then we have justification to destroy them, all of them.”

To be sure, that video of the alleged Israeli strike is actually an IED. Missile strikes don't typically look like that, but the explosion has the hallmarks of an IED. This was most likely planted by Hamas and staged to make it look like Israel did it. There have been several similar posts which have been debunked as old (i.e. Syrian or Ukranian wars), from video games or propaganda pieces. Please vet your sources for this video because it hasn't been verified anywhere else.

 

[MT15]

This tribe is better than that tribe. The murder that tribe commits is worse than the murder this tribe commits.

That is what I get from your posts. You think that what Israel is doing is worse than (or at least as bad as) what Hamas is doing. Bottom line. You can fill up pages, but that is the nugget that I am getting from your posts, while I think what Hamas is doing is worse and it’s not a close call.

Because I think that way doesn’t mean I have no regard for innocent civilian lives or any of the other things you accuse me and other of. We should probably just agree to disagree because you will never convince me to think of this the way I see that you do.

 

[UriUT]

So much this. It’s a bit frustrating to see people so one-sided in this. It reminds me of people who blame Democrats for not bending over backwards to work with Republicans. There are things Hamas should be doing and they are not doing any of them. The leaders of Hamas, those ultimately responsible for this entire mess, have no problem with encouraging the people who live in Gaza to remain in the line of fire, from their comfortable perch in Quatar.

You understand this is an asymmetrical war right? The US asks Israel to constrain itself because it can destroy every living being and building in gaza. With our weapons and ammo. Moreover, Israel overshadows hamas militarily. For comparison, the US can obliterate countries but we are asked to constrain ourselves. No we demand it of our leaders. We do not invade Mexico to end the illegal drugs entry. We do not go invade central America, establish walled up cities like Gaza, and end illegal immigration while limiting their freedom of movement. When we search out terrorist leaders, we do not immediately send missiles and kill him regardless of where he is standing. If he's in a busy market with hundreds of people, we don't say it's cost of business. No we wait and find the time when he has the least number of people to minimize the collateral damage. It's what we do. And we should expect that of Israel. Have we learned nothing from the wars on terrorism?

And no one asking for restraint sides with or condones what hamas did, that is what you are implying with this one sided reference, hamas in Qatar shades. That's offensive.

 

[UriUT]

If it was all moot, Israel would continue to face attacks and war.

My impression, correct me if I’m wrong, that under Israeli rules, Palestinians are somewhere between second class citizens and oppressed in a variety of economic ways for the sake of Israeli security. I remember as far back as the 1980s this kind of reporting. Yeah, so kids are being taught to hate Israel. Is this a surprise? (Not an accusation).

There has to some element of reaping what you sew which has gone on for decades. The terrorist or the freedom fighter, it depends on which which side you lean. I think I’ve made my position clear, that both sides are playing a role in this ongoing tragedy that started when the UN decided to enable the creation of Israel at the expense of Palestine. It’s that simple.

And while I can never condone the manner Hamas approached it’s attack, I have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians. And while I sympathies when Israel suffers, I’m critical of their treatment of Palestine. It’s almost as if thinking that keeping the Palestinians beaten down will solve their problems. Oppression begets violence, violence begets more violence, back and forth, an endless cycle then you have to consider who you think is more justified or who is more to blame. And we will be there protecting Israel… so this is costing us too.

If you are not going to kill off the all the Palestinians, without a 2 State solution, with continued oppression, Israel will continue to face violence unless they deem it appropriate to kill off all the Palestinians …for their security. And the rest of the world will judge them, and other Arab/Muslim countries will hate and possibly take action against them. It sounds untenable to me.

The how Israel was formed is moot...includes historical context of who Palestine really belongs.

 

[DaveXA]

The how Israel was formed is moot...includes historical context of who Palestine really belongs.

Might be moot to you, to those in the region, yeah, not so much.

 

[zztop]

To be sure, that video of the alleged Israeli strike is actually an IED. Missile strikes don't typically look like that, but the explosion has the hallmarks of an IED. This was most likely planted by Hamas and staged to make it look like Israel did it.

that is some sinister shirt

 

[DaveXA]

that is some sinister shirt

No doubt.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Let me express what I'm seeing here (and I could be totally wrong). I see us arguing two different arguments. On one side, folks are focusing specifically on Hamas' attack. On the other, folks are looking at things holistically and placing partial blame at Israel's feet as well. The question becomes can you do both and if not, why not?

I would argue that it's easy to ignore what Israel has done over the decades because it's been happening forever. I personally don't have a problem with declaring Israel an apartheid state with the atrocities inflicted on Palestine. However, like we did with South Africa for so long, we turn a blind eye. We don't call them out. We come to their defense. That is wrong and there's no other way to look at it. We decry governments and others, Islamic or not, who criticize them.

Hamas, on the hand, is no government. They're terrorists and they should be destroyed like any other terrorist group for what they did.

However, we cannot ignore the fact that Israel's actions over the decades led to this. And it sucks that the Palestinians are being forced to pay for it.

 

[UriUT]

Might be moot to you, to those in the region, yeah, not so much.

I linked 2 articles on Hamas' motivation, one is comprehensive with interviews of Hamas' political leaders. Find in them where they question Israel's statehood, or even its destruction. Spoiler alert, you won't find them. It's all desperation that their plight are ignored, while arab leaders one by one normalize relation with Israel.

Not one sane leader with one pinky toe grounded in reality thinks like you suggest. None of them lives in a fantasy world where the 6 million jews will magically emigrate, forcefully or not. Even Iran. We are not in the 60s or 70s thinking anymore.

Therefore, it's moot.

 

[UriUT]

Let me express what I'm seeing here (and I could be totally wrong). I see us arguing two different arguments. On one side, folks are focusing specifically on Hamas' attack. On the other, folks are looking at things holistically and placing partial blame at Israel's feet as well. The question becomes can you do both and if not, why not?

I would argue that it's easy to ignore what Israel has done over the decades because it's been happening forever. I personally don't have a problem with declaring Israel an apartheid state with the atrocities inflicted on Palestine. However, like we did with South Africa for so long, we turn a blind eye. We don't call them out. We come to their defense. That is wrong and there's no other way to look at it. We decry governments and others, Islamic or not, who criticize them.

Hamas, on the hand, is no government. They're terrorists and they should be destroyed like any other terrorist group for what they did.

However, we cannot ignore the fact that Israel's actions over the decades led to this. And it sucks that the Palestinians are being forced to pay for it.

How are we emotionally triggered? A slowly boiling frog or one that gets squashed?

 

[DaveXA]

I linked 2 articles on Hamas' motivation, one is comprehensive with interviews of Hamas' political leaders. Find in them where they question Israel's statehood, or even its destruction. Spoiler alert, you won't find them. It's all desperation that their plight are ignored, while arab leaders one by one normalize relation with Israel.

Not one sane leader with one pinky toe grounded in reality thinks like you suggest. None of them lives in a fantasy world where the 6 million jews will magically emigrate, forcefully or not. Even Iran. We are not in the 60s or 70s thinking anymore.

Therefore, it's moot.

You really think they're gonna say the quiet part out loud in a political setting? You can't be that gullible to think their motives have changed that much over time. Or maybe you can.

 

[DaveXA]

I linked 2 articles on Hamas' motivation, one is comprehensive with interviews of Hamas' political leaders. Find in them where they question Israel's statehood, or even its destruction. Spoiler alert, you won't find them. It's all desperation that their plight are ignored, while arab leaders one by one normalize relation with Israel.

Not one sane leader with one pinky toe grounded in reality thinks like you suggest. None of them lives in a fantasy world where the 6 million jews will magically emigrate, forcefully or not. Even Iran. We are not in the 60s or 70s thinking anymore.

Therefore, it's moot.

And I'll add, I don't doubt they're responding to attempts to normalize relations with Israel, which obviously is a threat to their very existence, and it should be. Palestinians no longer would need to rely on them for leadership.

 

[UriUT]

Let me express what I'm seeing here (and I could be totally wrong). I see us arguing two different arguments. On one side, folks are focusing specifically on Hamas' attack. On the other, folks are looking at things holistically and placing partial blame at Israel's feet as well. The question becomes can you do both and if not, why not?

I would argue that it's easy to ignore what Israel has done over the decades because it's been happening forever. I personally don't have a problem with declaring Israel an apartheid state with the atrocities inflicted on Palestine. However, like we did with South Africa for so long, we turn a blind eye. We don't call them out. We come to their defense. That is wrong and there's no other way to look at it. We decry governments and others, Islamic or not, who criticize them.

Hamas, on the hand, is no government. They're terrorists and they should be destroyed like any other terrorist group for what they did.

However, we cannot ignore the fact that Israel's actions over the decades led to this. And it sucks that the Palestinians are being forced to pay for it.

And you know what pisses me off most about the current Israeli political climate? It used to be that anyone who hints at interfering in us politics would be admonished by other Israeli leaders for endangering Israel. They figured better to play both sides and remain neutral as us support was key to their tenuous survival. Now, netanyahu can make speeches at cpac attacking Obama, Biden, or anyone who criticizes their West bank settlement or Gaza blockade.

We give them aid equivalent of any state per capita. Yet they are the tail that wags the dog.

Edit. And it's that political safety net that allows them to brazenly expand into the West bank. Nor be compromising.

 

[UriUT]

You really think they're gonna say the quiet part out loud in a political setting? You can't be that gullible to think their motives have changed that much over time. Or maybe you can.

Jfc. Are you seriously playing the psychic games? I don't think you mean what you say about trying not to kill gazans civilians. I'm not gullible to believe you. I KNOW how you really feel.

Edit. And to clarify the point, they used much of their resources for this one attack. Do you think they sanely believe they can take out the entire state of Israel?

 

[DaveXA]

Jfc. Are you seriously playing the psychic games? I don't think you mean what you say about trying not to kill gazans civilians. I'm not gullible to believe you. I KNOW how you really feel.

Not sure what you're referring to but I haven't commented on trying not to kill civilians.

 

[DaveXA]

And you know what pisses me off most about the current Israeli political climate? It used to be that anyone who hints at interfering in us politics would be admonished by other Israeli leaders for endangering Israel. They figured better to play both sides and remain neutral as us support was key to their tenuous survival. Now, netanyahu can make speeches at cpac attacking Obama, Biden, or anyone who criticizes their West bank settlement or Gaza blockade.

We give them aid equivalent of any state per capita. Yet they are the tail that wags the dog.

Edit. And it's that political safety net that allows them to brazenly expand into the West bank. Nor be compromising.

Not sure where you get your news from. So, I have questions.