Israel vs Hamas (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[DaveXA]

More disinfo:

Indeed, this is why vetting claims from both sides is really important. There aren't really a lot of unbiased sources in this conflict. Add in the fog of war, Russian bots and other sources of propaganda, it makes vetting sources difficult. We've already seen numerous debunked videos getting millions of views, where the videos are actually from the Russo-Ukriaine conflict, previous conflicts in the region and even video games that look pretty real.

It's all part of the disinfo campaign by dubious actors.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I do not care about intentions.

Well, you should because the intention of Hamas was to murder Jews. The intention of Israel is to eliminate Hamas.

 

[DaveXA]

Israel has killed more children in the past week than Hamas.

Possibly, but the blame is squarely on Hamas for putting Palestinians in harm's way. This is exactly their m.o. and they're telling people in Gaza to stay in their homes. They don't want to give away their leverage by allowing them to evacuate south.

I don't care what Israel would like, i care what the outcome of their action is. They are knowingly killing civilians. They are killing more civilians than Hamas militants right now. They are knowingly cutting off food and water to civilians. NOTHING justifies that.

I don't support cutting off food, electricity and water to civilians, but again the blame lies squarely on Hamas for the massacre of over 1000 people when this started.

If we care about kids being killed, then we should treat each dead child as if they are equally valuable.

Yes.

The US is complicit with these war crimes, and i hope that we see a warrant issued for Joe Biden's arrest by the ICC when this is over.

You're off your rocker.

 

[DaveXA]

It is never ok to harm civilians.

Israel has caused much greater harm to civilians in the past week than Hamas. It is not even close.

It's not, certainly, but again, this is the outcome of Hamas' actions last week. They knew what the response and did it anyway. Hamas cares even less about Palestinians than normal people. They're psychopaths. And the actions they've taken this week makes that clear.

 

[DaveXA]

I do not care about intentions.

Clearly. It's like judging something without any context.

 

[samiam5211]

It's not, certainly, but again, this is the outcome of Hamas' actions last week. They knew what the response and did it anyway. Hamas cares even less about Palestinians than normal people. They're psychopaths. And the actions they've taken this week makes that clear.

No it is the outcome of Israel's reaction to Hamas.

Israel is responsible for their actions, and Hamas is responsible for their actions.

The innocent civilians killed in Gaza are just as innocent as the people killed at the music festival.

 

[DaveXA]

No it is the outcome of Israel's reaction to Hamas.

Israel is responsible for their actions, and Hamas is responsible for their actions.

The innocent civilians killed in Gaza are just as innocent as the people killed at the music festival.

Again, yes they are. But there are consequences to Hamas' actions. They knew they would be putting innocent civilians in harm's way and did it anyway. There's no getting around that.

 

[samiam5211]

Again, yes they are. But there are consequences to Hamas' actions. They knew they would be putting innocent civilians in harm's way and did it anyway. There's no getting around that.

I'm not trying to get around it.

But there is no getting around that Israel is bombing buildings knowing that they will kill civilians.

Hamas says Israel's actions led them them killing civilians, Israel says Hamas actions led to them killing civilians.

Israel has killed more children than Hamas in the past 7 days.

I am not pretending that one side is better than the other.

 

[Incumbent]

The US is complicit with these war crimes, and i hope that we see a warrant issued for Joe Biden's arrest by the ICC when this is over.

Preposterous.

A swift and strong presence by the US and allies in the Middle East might be the only thing that keeps this from boiling over into region-wide war, or escalating beyond that. War sucks. I wish we could talk through all of our problems. I'm not an apologist for Israel and I think their actions over decades have done as much to lead to this point as anything else.

To assert that Biden is a war criminal days into a conflict arising from a large-scale terror attack is just shock fodder.

 

[DaveXA]

I'm not trying to get around it.

But there is no getting around that Israel is bombing buildings knowing that they will kill civilians.

Hamas says Israel's actions led them them killing civilians, Israel says Hamas actions led to them killing civilians.

Israel has killed more children than Hamas in the past 7 days.

I am not pretending that one side is better than the other.

We'll have to disagree then. I stand by what I said.

 

[samiam5211]

Preposterous.

A swift and strong presence by the US and allies in the Middle East might be the only thing that keeps this from boiling over into region-wide war, or escalating beyond that. War sucks. I wish we could talk through all of our problems. I'm not an apologist for Israel and I think their actions over decades have done as much to lead to this point as anything else.

To assert that Biden is a war criminal days into a conflict arising from a large-scale terror attack is just shock fodder.

The strong response by the US has given Israel a green light to do whatever they want.

The US is complicit in whatever they do. We are responsible for every death in Gaza.

 

[Incumbent]

Could you point out the post of mine that said the US should indefinitely freeze foreign owned assets?

Can you point out where I addressed you, specifically?

As it is, the $6B of Iranian owned assets has become a favorite talking point of many Cons.

 

[DaveXA]

The strong response by the US has given Israel a green light to do whatever they want.

The US is complicit in whatever they do. We are responsible for every death in Gaza.

That's just absurd. But you do you.

 

[Incumbent]

The strong response by the US has given Israel a green light to do whatever they want.

The US is complicit in whatever they do. We are responsible for every death in Gaza.

Again, this is just ridiculous. Israel has shown for decades that they are going to act in the ways they deem best for their national security. I have plenty of concerns and disagreements with that. Israel is an ally (not something I say from a place of deep and unquestionable support), the Middle East exists as a powder keg with very complicated sociopolitical considerations, and the act of war by Hamas has escalated tensions to a breaking point. There isn't any basis to accuse Biden of being a war criminal days into this matter, other than you want to join in with the kneejerk commentary, something you don't normally seem to do.

 

[samiam5211]

Again, this is just ridiculous. Israel has shown for decades that they are going to act in the ways they deem best for their national security. I have plenty of concerns and disagreements with that. Israel is an ally (not something I say from a place of deep and unquestionable support), the Middle East exists as a powder keg with very complicated sociopolitical considerations, and the act of war by Hamas has escalated tensions to a breaking point. There isn't any basis to accuse Biden of being a war criminal days into this matter, other than you want to join in with the kneejerk commentary, something you don't normally seem to do.

I know quite a few people who are Palestinian.

Palestinian civilians aren't being given enough thought by us.

People crying about dead babies don't seem to really care about all dead babies, just certain ones.

 

[Incumbent]

I know quite a few people who are Palestinian.

Palestinian civilians aren't being given enough thought by us.

People crying about dead babies don't seem to really care about all dead babies, just certain ones.

All of which can be true; none of which is a reason to thoughtlessly label Biden a war criminal.

We probably share a lot of agreement about Middle Eastern policy, but in a rapidly escalating situation like this, a power vacuum can quickly form. Allied forces in the region might be the only thing that keeps this from rapidly spreading out, and involving a lot more of the area's citizenry.

 

[samiam5211]

All of which can be true; none of which is a reason to thoughtlessly label Biden a war criminal.

We probably share a lot of agreement about Middle Eastern policy, but in a rapidly escalating situation like this, a power vacuum can quickly form. Allied forces in the region might be the only thing that keeps this from rapidly spreading out, and involving a lot more of the area's citizenry.

Biden has endorsed anything Israel will end up doing, including cutting off food, water and electricity to Gaza. That is why I say he is complicit in war crimes.

They are collectively punishing the Palestinian people, i don't care how anyone tries to rationalize it. There is NO EXCUSE to cut off food and water. It is a crime, and Israel has not had once ounce of public pressure put on them by the US to not cut off critical civilian supplies.

 

[MT15]

I'm not trying to get around it.

But there is no getting around that Israel is bombing buildings knowing that they will kill civilians.

Hamas says Israel's actions led them them killing civilians, Israel says Hamas actions led to them killing civilians.

Israel has killed more children than Hamas in the past 7 days.

I am not pretending that one side is better than the other.

Is that why you have called for Biden to be arrested? Because you aren’t pretending that one side is worse?