Israel vs Hamas (2 Viewers)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[Lapaz]

I'll say this much, they're not gonna let up until the hostages are returned. As long as Hamas is holding hostages, this is gonna keep getting worse.

They need to let everyone who wants to get out, to get out of Gaza. Israel would be worse than Hamas if they kept bombing and causing civilian casualties, because the death toll would be much higher. Give all innocent Palestinians refuge, and then go in to root out Hamas and destroy their sanctuaries. Like Biden said, they need to respect the rules of war. I don’t doubt that some Hamas terrorists will slip out, but once they have left the territory, it will be much easier to conduct the battle, since all of the people left will be combatants or complicit.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

They need to let everyone who wants to get out, to get out of Gaza. Israel would be worse than Hamas if they kept bombing and causing civilian casualties, because the death toll would be much higher. Give all innocent Palestinians refuge, and then go in to root out Hamas and destroy their sanctuaries. Like Biden said, they need to respect the rules of war. I don’t doubt that some Hamas terrorists will slip out, but once they have left the territory, it will be much easier to conduct the battle, since all of the people left will be combatants or complicit.

I believe they're trying to do that. One problem is Egypt won't open its border crossing. Netanyahu/Biden need to get Egypt to help out.

 

[MT15]

They need to let everyone who wants to get out, to get out of Gaza. Israel would be worse than Hamas if they kept bombing and causing civilian casualties, because the death toll would be much higher. Give all innocent Palestinians refuge, and then go in to root out Hamas and destroy their sanctuaries. Like Biden said, they need to respect the rules of war. I don’t doubt that some Hamas terrorists will slip out, but once they have left the territory, it will be much easier to conduct the battle, since all of the people left will be combatants or complicit.

There isn’t anyone stepping up to take them. Egypt has refused. Where should they go?

It’s awful and I hate it. I did hear some Israeli reps today on TV saying they understand they need to minimize civilian casualties. Explaining what they do with the rocket strikes - they hit the building with an unarmed missile - they had a term for it, like thumping - to let the people inside know to get out before they actually bring the building down. They send SMS alerts and broadcast warnings as well.

I don’t know what can be done. It’s so disheartening.

 

[el caliente]

Okay that is at least more information. Yes, US companies sell rifles to many countries. So we don’t know where these rifles came from, and the Afghanistan debacle is a much more likely source than Ukraine, IMO. In fact, the one they show a picture of was from Afghanistan. The other sources are an unnamed IDF officer who is worried but has no evidence and Marjorie Taylor Greene, who they take very seriously, evidently.

From the article:
“Other than US forces, the M-series guns are used by militaries across 80 countries in the world. There could be several points of leakages but nothing like Afghanistan where the Taliban is reported to have been trading in M16 and M4 guns. Only a thorough investigation, as suggested by Congresswoman Greene, can find out the exact source of the guns.”

Can the US government stop these corporations who manufacture the rifles from selling them to other countries? It doesn’t seem like something Rs would support.

I thought that the MTG part would have been the first thing you commented on, so I was surprised that you didn’t mention it after you said that your read the article. Lol

So then we shouldn’t look for the source of these weapons? Somewhere under a star lit Texas sky Oliver North is shaking his fist.

The US does a bang up job of making sure that Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, RTX, and General Dynamics don’t sell weapons to certain countries, certainly they can do the same for vendors of M-16s and M-4s.

At any rate, tax payer funded weapons have found their way into the hands of the bad guys.

 

[DaveXA]

They need to let everyone who wants to get out, to get out of Gaza. Israel would be worse than Hamas if they kept bombing and causing civilian casualties, because the death toll would be much higher. Give all innocent Palestinians refuge, and then go in to root out Hamas and destroy their sanctuaries. Like Biden said, they need to respect the rules of war. I don’t doubt that some Hamas terrorists will slip out, but once they have left the territory, it will be much easier to conduct the battle, since all of the people left will be combatants or complicit.

The problem is, who's gonna take the refugees? The only practical place is Egypt, and they've already turned down a proposal to do that.

I hope they can come up with another proposal, but I'm not sure it's gonna happen.

 

[MT15]

I thought that the MTG part would have been the first thing you commented on, so I was surprised that you didn’t mention it after you said that your read the article. Lol

So then we shouldn’t look for the source of these weapons? Somewhere under a star lit Texas sky Oliver North is shaking his fist.

The US does a bang up job of making sure that Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, RTX, and General Dynamics don’t sell weapons to certain countries, certainly they can do the same for vendors of M-16s and M-4s.

At any rate, tax payer funded weapons have found their way into the hands of the bad guys.

We don’t know that, except for the stuff the Afghan ”army” abandoned. Most of these rifles are presumably purchased, not taxpayer funded.

I would presume there are certain countries that cannot buy M series rifles already.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/13/israel-gaza-hamas-evacuate-un-ground-operation#:~:text=The Israeli Ministry of Defense,and another source with direct

Israel tells UN to evacuate the northern Gaza Strip within 24 hours​

Barak Ravid
The Israeli Ministry of Defense and the IDF notified the UN just before midnight local time to evacuate its staff and notify Palestinians living north of Wadi Gaza that they should evacuate to the southern part of the Gaza Strip in the next 24 hours, UN spokesperson Stéphane Dujarric and another source with direct knowledge.

The big picture: More than 1 million Palestinians live in this area. The message could be a signal that the Israeli military is preparing for an imminent ground operation.

• The sources told Axios that the IDF's reason for the notification was in order for civilians not to be hurt by the military's actions and operations.
• More than 1,530 Palestinians and 1,200 Israelis have been killed, thousands have been injured, and hundreds of thousands of others have been displaced since the latest fighting between Israel and Hamas began. Hamas is believed to be holding about 150 hostages in Gaza.

Driving the news: The Israeli military has carried out a heavy bombardment of Gaza since Hamas militants attacked Israel on Saturday.

• It's also imposed a "complete siege" on the enclave, which is home to more than 2 million Palestinians.

What they're saying: "Today, just before midnight local time, team leaders of the UN Office of the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs and the Department of Safety and Security in Gaza were informed by their liaison officers in the Israeli military that the entire population of Gaza north of Wadi Gaza should relocate to southern Gaza within the next 24 hours," Dujarric told Axios.

• "This amounts to approximately 1.1 million people. The same order applied to all UN staff and those sheltered in UN facilities – including schools, health centers and clinics," Dujarric said.

• "The United Nations considers it impossible for such a movement to take place without devastating humanitarian consequences," Dujarric added.
• "The United Nations strongly appeals for any such order, if confirmed, to be rescinded avoiding what could transform what is already a tragedy into a calamitous situation."

 

[LA - L.A.]

I'll say this much, they're not gonna let up until the hostages are returned. As long as Hamas is holding hostages, this is gonna keep getting worse.

Israel is not going to let up even if all of the hostages are released.

Nobody knows how many hostages were actually taken, it's all approximation and guesswork.

That's why Israel is focusing its propaganda campaign on the outrage about hostages.

Israel will keep killing innocent Palestinians for as long as they please and they will keep saying its because Hamas still has hostages. A convenient claim for Israel to pin justification of their mass murder to, because nobody can prove their aren't anymore hostages, so no one can prove Israel is lying and being disingenuous.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Israel is not going to let up even if all of the hostages are released.

Nobody knows how many hostages were actually taken, it's all approximation and guesswork.

That's why Israel is focusing its propaganda campaign on the outrage about hostages.

Israel will keep killing innocent Palestinians for as long as they please and they will keep saying its because Hamas still has hostages. A convenient claim for Israel to pin justification of their mass murder to, because nobody can prove their aren't anymore hostages, so no one can prove Israel is lying and being disingenuous.

Israeli's goal is not about killing Palestinian civilians in Gaza. Will it happen? Without question. Does Israel know that? Of course, that is the nature of this combat zone, but, Israel would like nothing more than to be able to fight Hamas and only Hamas.

 

[MT15]

More disinfo:

 

[MT15]

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Look at our newest warship....
*

The USS Gerald R. Ford has arrived in the Mediterranean to support Israel. Here's what it can do.

The United States this week dispatched a group of warships, including the USS Gerald R. Ford, to support Israel following the brutal attacks by Hamas militants.

www.yahoo.com

 

[samiam5211]

Israeli's goal is not about killing Palestinian civilians in Gaza. Will it happen? Without question. Does Israel know that? Of course, that is the nature of this combat zone, but, Israel would like nothing more than to be able to fight Hamas and only Hamas.

Israel has killed more children in the past week than Hamas.

I don't care what Israel would like, i care what the outcome of their action is. They are knowingly killing civilians. They are killing more civilians than Hamas militants right now. They are knowingly cutting off food and water to civilians. NOTHING justifies that.

If we care about kids being killed, then we should treat each dead child as if they are equally valuable.

The US is complicit with these war crimes, and i hope that we see a warrant issued for Joe Biden's arrest by the ICC when this is over.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Israel has killed more children in the past week than Hamas.

I don't care what Israel would like, i care what the outcome of their action is. They are knowingly killing civilians. They are killing more civilians than Hamas militants right now. They are knowingly cutting off food and water to civilians. NOTHING justifies that.

If we care about kids being killed, then we should treat each dead child as if they are equally valuable.

The US is complicit with these war crimes, and i hope that we see a warrant issued for Joe Biden's arrest by the ICC when this is over.

So Israel is supposed to just let the attack by Hamas go? No reaction? Just let Hamas continue to rule Gaza and possibly attack Israel again killing babies, the elderly, and music festival goers?

 

[samiam5211]

So Israel is supposed to just let the attack by Hamas go? No reaction? Just let Hamas continue to rule Gaza and possibly attack Israel again killing babies, the elderly, and music festival goers?

It is never ok to harm civilians.

Israel has caused much greater harm to civilians in the past week than Hamas. It is not even close.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

It is never ok to harm civilians.

Israel has caused much greater harm to civilians in the past week than Hamas. It is not even close.

Look, Israel is going after Hamas. Israel isn't going into Gaza to kill civilians like Hamas did when it went into Israel. Hamas knew damn well what was going to happen. They have put the civilians in Gaza at risk. The civilians in Gaza have Hamas to thank for this. It's ugly, I hate it, but the world has to know that barbaric terrorist attacks won't lead to benefits for the terrorists.

 

[DaveXA]

Israel is not going to let up even if all of the hostages are released.

Nobody knows how many hostages were actually taken, it's all approximation and guesswork.

That's why Israel is focusing its propaganda campaign on the outrage about hostages.

Israel will keep killing innocent Palestinians for as long as they please and they will keep saying its because Hamas still has hostages. A convenient claim for Israel to pin justification of their mass murder to, because nobody can prove their aren't anymore hostages, so no one can prove Israel is lying and being disingenuous.

We don't know how many hostages they have, but it's clear they have them. There are numerous families and individuals who witnessed people being abducted. Hamas claims they have them and are supposedly speaking with Turkey about negotiating release. There have been videos of hostages and this morning Hamas is claiming the shelling has killed 13 hostages.

I'm not saying Israel doesn't have their own propaganda messaging, but by all accounts, the hostages are a legitimate issue.

Securing the release of the remaining hostages would definitely change the disposition of the IDF as they would be more likely to go into Gaza and clear out Hamas fighters.

 

[samiam5211]

Look, Israel is going after Hamas. Israel isn't going into Gaza to kill civilians like Hamas did when it went into Israel. Hamas knew damn well what was going to happen. They have put the civilians in Gaza at risk. The civilians in Gaza have Hamas to thank for this. It's ugly, I hate it, but the world has to know that barbaric terrorist attacks won't lead to benefits for the terrorists.

I do not care about intentions.