Israel vs Hamas (2 Viewers)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[Dragon]

Do you think anyone WANTS that shirt to happen?
Haven't you come to expect civilian casualties when they allow themselves to be used as shields? Don't you understand Hamas' strategy?

Shields? Running away getting shot in the back? Plenty of video evidence of that. Kicking children out of hospitals and removing babies from incubators? plenty of evidence of that too from the last 24 hours... Tell me what a premie baby has done to deserv that ?

 

[Dragon]

And now Israel is annexing Syrian territory too. Removing the population in that area to buiild settlements? That again is against international law and is a war crime

 

[Texan1211]

Shields?

Yes, shields. Perhaps you may have run across an article or two about how Hamas uses children and adult civilians as shields.
Type this: "Hamas uses civilians as shields" in your browser and take a look.

Tell me what the concertgoers in Israel did to deserve being murdered, raped, desecrated, and kidnapped.
Billions of dollars have been spent in Gaza over the years. With precious little to show for it. The people there are seemingly content with being fodder for Hamas.

 

[Texan1211]

And now Israel is annexing Syrian territory too. Removing the population in that area to buiild settlements? That again is against international law and is a war crime

I see that Hamas' strategy is working wonderfully on you.
Hamas fires rockets from schools and hospitals, knowing and banking on Israel retaliating so Hamas can say "See? Israel is attacking civilians".
Hamas banks on enough people in the world to be snookered in by this ploy, looks like they were extremely successful on you.

 

[Dragon]

I see that Hamas' strategy is working wonderfully on you.
Hamas fires rockets from schools and hospitals, knowing and banking on Israel retaliating so Hamas can say "See? Israel is attacking civilians".
Hamas banks on enough people in the world to be snookered in by this ploy, looks like they were extremely successful on you.

International law requires that all military actions are taken with minumum civilian casualties. Israel are bombing schools and hospitals with no regards for innocent human lives. Israel does not care if they have to kill thousand of innocents to get to a single terrorist. Israeli soldiers have shot women and children in their backs when they are fleeing the fighting. That is not human shields. That is terrorism and a war crime.

And nobody is firing on Israel from that part of Syria and the israeli troops entered to annex the area against international law and you just pulled another strawman and did not answer my post because you know that what they did are illegal

 

[Texan1211]

International law requires that all military actions are taken with minumum civilian casualties. Israel are bombing schools and hospitals with no regards for innocent human lives. Israel does not care if they have to kill thousand of innocents to get to a single terrorist. Israeli soldiers have shot women and children in their backs when they are fleeing the fighting. That is not human shields. That is terrorism and a war crime.

And nobody is firing on Israel from that part of Syria and the israeli troops entered to annex the area against international law and you just pulled another strawman and did not answer my post because you know that what they did are illegal

You can quote "international law" all you want.
Does international law have any solutions to stopping terrorists from attacking Israel completely unscathed unless international law is broken? Or is Israel expected to accept the attacks and say "Thank you, may we have another?"

 

[Dragon]

You can quote "international law" all you want.
Does international law have any solutions to stopping terrorists from attacking Israel completely unscathed unless international law is broken? Or is Israel expected to accept the attacks and say "Thank you, may we have another?"

Do Palestinians not have rights as well? Israeli settlers have been attacking Palestinians for years, often with the support—or at least the tacit approval—of the Israeli government.

Why is it acceptable for settlers to attack and kill innocent Palestinians without facing repercussions? How many atrocities should be allowed before accountability is demanded?

This conflict is not one-sided. Even before last year’s attacks, there were countless atrocities committed by Israel. The suffering and violence have been cyclical, with devastating impacts on both sides, yet the imbalance of power and the lack of accountability for these actions cannot be ignored.

Is the palestinian population expected to accept the attacks and say "Thank you, may we have another?" This is what has been going on for years.



Settlements are illegal under international humanitarianlaw as they violate Article 49 of the Fourth GenevaConvention, which prohibits the transfer of the occupyingpower’s civilian population into occupied territory.2 Theestablishment and constant expansion of settlements hasalso involved the infringement on the human rights ofPalestinians, including the right to property, to freedom ofmovement and to equality before the law.

 

[Texan1211]

Do Palestinians not have rights as well? Israeli settlers have been attacking Palestinians for years, often with the support—or at least the tacit approval—of the Israeli government.

Why is it acceptable for settlers to attack and kill innocent Palestinians without facing repercussions? How many atrocities should be allowed before accountability is demanded?

This conflict is not one-sided. Even before last year’s attacks, there were countless atrocities committed by Israel. The suffering and violence have been cyclical, with devastating impacts on both sides, yet the imbalance of power and the lack of accountability for these actions cannot be ignored.

Is the palestinian population expected to accept the attacks and say "Thank you, may we have another?" This is what has been going on for years.



Settlements are illegal under international humanitarianlaw as they violate Article 49 of the Fourth GenevaConvention, which prohibits the transfer of the occupyingpower’s civilian population into occupied territory.2 Theestablishment and constant expansion of settlements hasalso involved the infringement on the human rights ofPalestinians, including the right to property, to freedom ofmovement and to equality before the law.

Well, you managed to skirt around my questions, but I will answer yours.'

Do Palestinians not have rights as well?

Sure they do. Who is saying they don't?

Why is it acceptable for settlers to attack and kill innocent Palestinians without facing repercussions?

Who exactly is arguing that?

How many atrocities should be allowed before accountability is demanded?

I don't know, let's ask the terrorists when enough is enough.

Is the palestinian population expected to accept the attacks and say "Thank you, may we have another?"

Nope. They are expected (by me) to do something, anything, to help themselves.
They show absolutely no inclination to help themselves.

 

[Dragon]

Well, you managed to skirt around my questions, but I will answer yours.'

Sure they do. Who is saying they don't?

Who exactly is arguing that?

I don't know, let's ask the terrorists when enough is enough.

Nope. They are expected (by me) to do something, anything, to help themselves.
They show absolutely no inclination to help themselves.

You are really ignorant or just a troll.

I don’t know—let’s ask the terrorists when enough is enough. Are you referring to the illegal settlers terrorizing Palestinians? Those who believe they have a biblical right to do so, with the backing of Netanyahu and his religious party?

You support Israel, so tell me: why do you justify their actions, and when will the terror against Palestinians be considered enough? You oppose illegal immigration in the U.S., yet you support Israel’s annexation of Palestinian and Syrian land. How do you reconcile these contradictions?

They show absolutely no inclination to help themselves. They are literally locked into a ghetto. Israel controls everything that is entering and leaving. Israel also controls access to water and electricity

Israel has imposed a blockade on the Gaza Strip, restricting the entry of various goods over the years. The list of prohibited items has evolved, but some of the items that have been disallowed include:

• Medical Supplies and Equipment: Items such as anesthetics, anesthesia machines, oxygen cylinders, ventilators, and water filtration systems have faced restrictions.
  CNN
  
  
• Building Materials: Cement, glass, steel, bitumen, wood, paint, doors, plastic pipes, metal pipes, metal reinforcement rods, and aggregate have been limited, impacting reconstruction efforts.
  Wikipedia
  
  
• Educational Materials and Technology: Certain educational materials and technological items have been restricted, affecting the education sector.
  UpaConnect
  
  
• Food and Consumer Goods: Items such as dates, chocolate, jam, dried fruit, and certain spices have been prohibited at various times.
  NPR
  
  
• Household Items: Goods like toys, sewing machines, and kitchen utensils have faced restrictions.
  The Guardian

These restrictions have had significant humanitarian implications, affecting healthcare, infrastructure, education, and daily life in Gaza.

Not a nice read https://www.ft.com/content/4941c076-7f6c-4a6a-89e2-baef3480a1c7 and this is financial times. Not a left wing newspaper.


The comparison with the Warshaw ghetto hold up. The gazan has literally been locked up in an open prison for years.

 

[Texan1211]

You are really ignorant or just a troll

Decorum prevents accurate description of you.
Quite plainly I refer to the terrorists who rule Gaza. The ones who fire rockets into Israel. Who raped and kidnapped and murdered peaceful folks attending a music festival.
The ones who Palestinians tolerate being used and abused by.
Palestinians rejected a two state solution but that is to be expected when the real goal is to annihilate Jews.

 

[Dragon]

“Blankets, mattresses and warm clothes are sitting outside Gaza waiting for approval to get in,” UNRWA said on Tuesday. “More and regular humanitarian assistance must come into Gaza to help people stay warm this winter.”

“We are suffering from the rain, we were flooded,” he said. “I have three children who were freezing cold overnight in the camp from this weather. They need clothes, they need tents, proper tents that we can live in.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/12/31/middleeast/gaza-winter-palestinians-intl-latam/index.html

This is genocide. With warm clothing, madrasses and winter tents waiting at the border for Israel to let them in. Children, newborns and elderly is dying every day. How can this in any way be rationalized as anything else ?

 

[Scoutster]

I support Israel hands-down, and always will!

 

[Heathen]

No genocide going on.
Exaggerating what is happening won't help anyone.

Then you’re not looking.

Review the definition of genocide as defined.

Could you kindly point out per this definition why it doesn’t fit the criteria?

I’m sure you wouldn’t think it’s “exaggerated “ if it were you or your children wondering if you were going to see the light of the next day.

 

[Heathen]

Billions of dollars have been spent in Gaza over the years. With precious little to show for it. The people there are seemingly content with being fodder for Hamas.

To start - acting like anyone in one of the poorest regions of the world has the luxury of being “content” with something, as if they have all of this control, is staggeringly naive.

Secondly, it seems extremely immoral an argument to make that simply because someone resides in the same country as another who committed a terrible act - that they should be “guilty by association”.

You probably wouldn’t agree that you and your family should be subject to harm at the hands of a terrorist because of something terrible another American did to someone in that terrorists’ country, right?

 

[Scoutster]

The Palestinian people of today have their fathers and grandfathers to answer for this.

Hamas celebrates election victory | Palestinian territories | The Guardian

<b>·</b> Fatah admits it has lost majority<br> <b>·</b> Hamas to be asked to form government

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Heathen]

I see that Hamas' strategy is working wonderfully on you.
Hamas fires rockets from schools and hospitals, knowing and banking on Israel retaliating so Hamas can say "See? Israel is attacking civilians".
Hamas banks on enough people in the world to be snookered in by this ploy, looks like they were extremely successful on you.

Ah yes..the old “they’re hoping to get their own people blown up from Israeli retaliatory fire” line again.

Did you ever question that you may be repeating propaganda here yourself?

And playing into this hypothetical you raise - what good would it have done for Hamas to act as “human shields”?

So they could get themselves killed and threaten to deplete their numbers?

So they could “draw sympathy” from the outside world just so the world could sit on their hands and watch as Israel slaughters civilians every day, for more than a year straight?

It doesn’t really add up.

 

[Heathen]

The Palestinian people of today have their fathers and grandfathers to answer for this.

Hamas celebrates election victory | Palestinian territories | The Guardian

<b>·</b> Fatah admits it has lost majority<br> <b>·</b> Hamas to be asked to form government

amp.theguardian.com

You know…

Something tells me that you’d probably feel differently if I were to replace Palestinian with Israeli and that link you gave with one about the IDF slaughtering tens of thousands in Gaza.

But feel free to correct me if you think I’m wrong.

I don’t think that retribution upon the poor, the helpless, the innocent ( babies being shot in the head, starved, freezing to death etc) for the acts of a fraction of the population is anything but pure evil.

 

[Heathen]

I support Israel hands-down, and always will!

Explain why.