Is Russia about to invade Ukraine? (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

Russia continues to mass assets within range of Ukraine - though the official explanations are that they are for various exercises. United States intelligence has noted that Russian operatives in Ukraine could launch 'false flag' operations as a predicate to invasion. The West has pressed for negotiations and on Friday in Geneva, the US Sec. State Blinken will meet with the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov.

Certainly the Russian movements evidence some plan - but what is it? Some analysts believe that Putin's grand scheme involves securing Western commitments that NATO would never expand beyond its current composition. Whether that means action in Ukraine or merely the movement of pieces on the chess board remains to be seen.

VIENNA — No one expected much progress from this past week’s diplomatic marathon to defuse the security crisis Russia has ignited in Eastern Europe by surrounding Ukraine on three sides with 100,000 troops and then, by the White House’s accounting, sending in saboteurs to create a pretext for invasion.

But as the Biden administration and NATO conduct tabletop simulations about how the next few months could unfold, they are increasingly wary of another set of options for President Vladimir V. Putin, steps that are more far-reaching than simply rolling his troops and armor over Ukraine’s border.

Mr. Putin wants to extend Russia’s sphere of influence to Eastern Europe and secure written commitments that NATO will never again enlarge. If he is frustrated in reaching that goal, some of his aides suggested on the sidelines of the negotiations last week, then he would pursue Russia’s security interests with results that would be felt acutely in Europe and the United States.

There were hints, never quite spelled out, that nuclear weapons could be shifted to places — perhaps not far from the United States coastline — that would reduce warning times after a launch to as little as five minutes, potentially igniting a confrontation with echoes of the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

Russia Issues Subtle Threats More Far-Reaching Than a Ukraine Invasion

If the West fails to meet its security demands, Moscow could take measures like placing nuclear missiles close to the U.S. coastline, Russian officials have hinted.

www.nytimes.com

Blinken Will Meet With Russia as U.S. Pushes for More Diplomacy

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken will meet with Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov of Russia in Geneva on Friday as the United States warns that Russia could soon attack Ukraine.

www.nytimes.com

How to think about war in Ukraine

Start with the Ukrainians

snyder.substack.com

 

[J-DONK]

Wrong again. US was not negotiating a peace deal without Ukraine in the room. Russia wanted nothing to do with that.

The idea that Ukraine doesn't have real autonomy is a MAJOR Russian talking point. They don't even think Ukraine has real statehood.

Read these kind of articles SFL:

Why Russia has never accepted Ukrainian independence

It might have, had it chosen democracy

www.economist.com

What Putin Gets Wrong About Ukraine's Statehood

Experts say Putin’s remarks are intended to justify Russian claims over Ukraine

time.com

 

[DaveXA]

The idea that Ukraine doesn't have real autonomy is a MAJOR Russian talking point. They don't even think Ukraine has real statehood.

Read these kind of articles SFL:

Why Russia has never accepted Ukrainian independence

It might have, had it chosen democracy

www.economist.com

What Putin Gets Wrong About Ukraine's Statehood

Experts say Putin’s remarks are intended to justify Russian claims over Ukraine

time.com

Yep, Russia claims that Kiev is rightfully theirs and that Ukrainians aren't a separate people but actually part of the Russian state. Their propaganda is focused on cleaning the "Nazis" out and blaming the West for the mess in Ukraine. Poots has long wanted to reestablish the Soviet Union and he desperately wants the Baltic states back in the fold, when none of those states except one or maybe two remain allies with Russia.

 

[SaintForLife]

You got that from "rent free". Impressive.

No it was based on your what you've posted in the past. Your last post in this thread is a good example. You saying Putin wants the Baltic states back as if he is planning in the future to attack or invade them. Putin has never attacked a NATO country. What makes your think that changes besides the CIA talking points you hear from the media?

 

[SaintForLife]

The idea that Ukraine doesn't have real autonomy is a MAJOR Russian talking point. They don't even think Ukraine has real statehood.

Read these kind of articles SFL:

Why Russia has never accepted Ukrainian independence

It might have, had it chosen democracy

www.economist.com

What Putin Gets Wrong About Ukraine's Statehood

Experts say Putin’s remarks are intended to justify Russian claims over Ukraine

time.com

Ukraine is an independent state, but if you think that the US hasn't been calling the shots in Ukraine since we helped push the coup and Nuland was caught picking Ukraines new leader then you are extremely naive.

Full post:

More confirmations of proxy war & Ukraine as US client state since Western-backed violent overthrow of Ukrainian government 10 years ago: "The C.I.A. and other American intelligence agencies provide intelligence for targeted missile strikes, track Russian troop movements and help support spy networks... A secret nerve center of Ukraine’s military... is almost fully financed, and partly equipped, by the C.I.A. “One hundred and ten percent,” Gen. Serhii Dvoretskiy, a top intelligence commander, said in an interview at the base.

The listening post in the Ukrainian forest is part of a C.I.A.-supported network of spy bases constructed in the past eight years that includes 12 secret locations along the Russian border... The Ukrainians also helped the Americans go after the Russian operatives who meddled in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

And the C.I.A. also helped train a new generation of Ukrainian spies who operated inside Russia, across Europe, and in Cuba and other places where the Russians have a large presence. The relationship is so ingrained that C.I.A. officers remained at a remote location in western Ukraine when the Biden administration evacuated U.S. personnel in the weeks before Russia invaded in February 2022. During the invasion, the officers relayed critical intelligence, including where Russia was planning strikes and which weapons systems they would use. “Without them, there would have been no way for us to resist the Russians, or to beat them,” said Ivan Bakanov, who was then head of Ukraine’s domestic intelligence agency, the S.B.U.

The C.I.A.’s partnership in Ukraine can be traced back to two phone calls on the night of Feb. 24, 2014, eight years to the day before Russia’s full-scale invasion.

Millions of Ukrainians had just overrun the country’s pro-Kremlin government and the president, Viktor Yanukovych, and his spy chiefs had fled to Russia. In the tumult, a fragile pro-Western government quickly took power.

The government’s new spy chief, Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, arrived at the headquarters of the domestic intelligence agency and found a pile of smoldering documents in the courtyard. Inside, many of the computers had been wiped or were infected with Russian malware.,,

He went to an office and called the C.I.A. station chief and the local head of MI6. It was near midnight but he summoned them to the building, asked for help in rebuilding the agency from the ground up, and proposed a three-way partnership. “That’s how it all started,” Mr. Nalyvaichenko said."

The Spy War: How the C.I.A. Secretly Helps Ukraine Fight Putin

For more than a decade, the United States has nurtured a secret intelligence partnership with Ukraine that is now critical for both countries in countering Russia.

www.nytimes.com

 

[efil4]

No it was based on your what you've posted in the past. Your last post in this thread is a good example. You saying Putin wants the Baltic states back as if he is planning in the future to attack or invade them. Putin has never attacked a NATO country. What makes your think that changes besides the CIA talking points you hear from the media?

This isnt CIA talking points...its Putins own words.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hailing-peter-great-putin-draws-parallel-with-mission-return-russian-lands-2022-06-09/

 

[efil4]

Ukraine is an independent state, but if you think that the US hasn't been calling the shots in Ukraine since we helped push the coup and Nuland was caught picking Ukraines new leader then you are extremely naive.

Full post:

More confirmations of proxy war & Ukraine as US client state since Western-backed violent overthrow of Ukrainian government 10 years ago: "The C.I.A. and other American intelligence agencies provide intelligence for targeted missile strikes, track Russian troop movements and help support spy networks... A secret nerve center of Ukraine’s military... is almost fully financed, and partly equipped, by the C.I.A. “One hundred and ten percent,” Gen. Serhii Dvoretskiy, a top intelligence commander, said in an interview at the base.

The listening post in the Ukrainian forest is part of a C.I.A.-supported network of spy bases constructed in the past eight years that includes 12 secret locations along the Russian border... The Ukrainians also helped the Americans go after the Russian operatives who meddled in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

And the C.I.A. also helped train a new generation of Ukrainian spies who operated inside Russia, across Europe, and in Cuba and other places where the Russians have a large presence. The relationship is so ingrained that C.I.A. officers remained at a remote location in western Ukraine when the Biden administration evacuated U.S. personnel in the weeks before Russia invaded in February 2022. During the invasion, the officers relayed critical intelligence, including where Russia was planning strikes and which weapons systems they would use. “Without them, there would have been no way for us to resist the Russians, or to beat them,” said Ivan Bakanov, who was then head of Ukraine’s domestic intelligence agency, the S.B.U.

The C.I.A.’s partnership in Ukraine can be traced back to two phone calls on the night of Feb. 24, 2014, eight years to the day before Russia’s full-scale invasion.

Millions of Ukrainians had just overrun the country’s pro-Kremlin government and the president, Viktor Yanukovych, and his spy chiefs had fled to Russia. In the tumult, a fragile pro-Western government quickly took power.

The government’s new spy chief, Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, arrived at the headquarters of the domestic intelligence agency and found a pile of smoldering documents in the courtyard. Inside, many of the computers had been wiped or were infected with Russian malware.,,

He went to an office and called the C.I.A. station chief and the local head of MI6. It was near midnight but he summoned them to the building, asked for help in rebuilding the agency from the ground up, and proposed a three-way partnership. “That’s how it all started,” Mr. Nalyvaichenko said."

The Spy War: How the C.I.A. Secretly Helps Ukraine Fight Putin

For more than a decade, the United States has nurtured a secret intelligence partnership with Ukraine that is now critical for both countries in countering Russia.

www.nytimes.com

Thats what friends do...help each other.

 

[DaveXA]

No it was based on your what you've posted in the past. Your last post in this thread is a good example. You saying Putin wants the Baltic states back as if he is planning in the future to attack or invade them. Putin has never attacked a NATO country. What makes your think that changes besides the CIA talking points you hear from the media?

Your posting like a Poots apologist speaks for itself.

I have no idea what CIA talking points you're talking about. You work for the CIA? You know what their talking points are? How do you know that?

Anyway, I guess I deserve what I get for talking to a Russian troll.

 

[MT15]

No it was based on your what you've posted in the past. Your last post in this thread is a good example. You saying Putin wants the Baltic states back as if he is planning in the future to attack or invade them. Putin has never attacked a NATO country. What makes your think that changes besides the CIA talking points you hear from the media?

Well, we could just listen to what Putin and his lackeys say. Or are they just parroting CIA talking points? Is the CIA in the room with you right now?

Hell, Putin spent a whole lot of time during his lecture of Carlson saying that Poland is actually Russian territory and not an independent country. Did you not notice?

 

[SaintForLife]

Your posting like a Poots apologist speaks for itself.

I have no idea what CIA talking points you're talking about. You work for the CIA? You know what their talking points are? How do you know that?

Anyway, I guess I deserve what I get for talking to a Russian troll.

The CIA talking points are accusing anyone who criticizes the US foreign policy as being a Putin or Russia supporter. It's a New Age McCarthyism. It's George Bush saying you are either with us or you are with the terrorists.

Your posts sound like a chickenhawk bootlicker.

 

[MT15]

The CIA talking points are accusing anyone who criticizes the US foreign policy as being a Putin or Russia supporter. It's a New Age McCarthyism. It's George Bush saying you are either with us or you are with the terrorists.

Your posts sound like a chickenhawk bootlicker.

And your posts are straight from the Kremlin. Who told you a month ago that Russia had already won the war?

 

[efil4]

The CIA talking points are accusing anyone who criticizes the US foreign policy as being a Putin or Russia supporter. It's a New Age McCarthyism. It's George Bush saying you are either with us or you are with the terrorists.

Your posts sound like a chickenhawk bootlicker.

SFL dancing queen

LOLOL

 

[SaintForLife]

And your posts are straight from the Kremlin. Who told you a month ago that Russia had already won the war?

It's like you can't even help it. Any criticism is from the Kremlin! Its like I'm talking foreign policy with a 10 year old. Maybe you have a form of Russian Tourette's syndrome.

 

[SaintForLife]

Well, we could just listen to what Putin and his lackeys say. Or are they just parroting CIA talking points? Is the CIA in the room with you right now?

Hell, Putin spent a whole lot of time during his lecture of Carlson saying that Poland is actually Russian territory and not an independent country. Did you not notice?

I'm so confused. Are we supposed to believe what Putin says?

If it's about Tucker, then yes.

If it's about Putin prefering Biden, then no.

If it's about Putin attacking NATO countries, then yes.

 

[efil4]

I'm so confused. Are we supposed to believe what Putin says?

If it's about Tucker, then yes.

If it's about Putin prefering Biden, then no.

If it's about Putin attacking NATO countries, then yes.

English is hard for traditional Russian speakers.


Context is even harder.

 

[DaveXA]

It's like you can't even help it. Any criticism is from the Kremlin! Its like I'm talking foreign policy with a 10 year old. Maybe you have a form of Russian Tourette's syndrome.

I mean, you're one to throw out insults. Best you can do is throw out insults rather than actually answer people's questions. You continually ignore points made, i.e. you keep saying the US scuttled negotiations when you fail to acknowledge that the reason is that Russia doesn't want Ukraine involved in the negotiating. The US has already made it clear that any decisions are a non-starter until Ukraine is involved.

And your continuing insistence that somehow the West is using Ukraine as a proxy when the facts are that Ukraine is fighting the war themselves. Yes, they're getting support from the West, but not at the cost of their autonomy.

Russia clearly has shown they think all of Ukraine belongs to them and don't give two sheets about Ukraine's sovereignty. Your ongoing defending of Russian propaganda is second to none here.

 

[SaintForLife]

I mean, you're one to throw out insults. Best you can do is throw out insults rather than actually answer people's questions. You continually ignore points made, i.e. you keep saying the US scuttled negotiations when you fail to acknowledge that the reason is that Russia doesn't want Ukraine involved in the negotiating. The US has already made it clear that any decisions are a non-starter until Ukraine is involved.

And your continuing insistence that somehow the West is using Ukraine as a proxy when the facts are that Ukraine is fighting the war themselves. Yes, they're getting support from the West, but not at the cost of their autonomy.

Russia clearly has shown they think all of Ukraine belongs to them and don't give two sheets about Ukraine's sovereignty. Your ongoing defending of Russian propaganda is second to none here.

I only throw out insults in response to someone doing it to me first. You are one talk about insults. This is the first substantial reply from you in a while. Your normal responses are short insults with nothing of substance. Complaining about something you do way more often than I do.

I haven't ignored those points. I don't believe them. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Wow! Ukraine Ambassador Chalyi, who participated in peace talks with Russia in Spring 2022, states that "we concluded" "Istanbul Communique" & "were very close in... April to finalize our war with some peaceful settlement" & that Putin "tried everything possible to conclude agreement with Ukraine." He says that it was Putin's "personal decision to accept the text of this communique."

Such peace deal framework to end war was also confirmed by head of Ukrainian delegation, officials close to Zelensky, ex-Israeli PM, ex-German chancellor, Putin, Turkish FM, former US officials & Arestovych. First five stated that deal was blocked by US/UK.

"There the Ukrainian side presented a ten-point “Istanbul Communiqué” outlining conditions for a cease-fire, permanent Ukrainian neutrality and international security guarantees. It also proposed clarifying the status of Crimea within fifteen years. Remaining points of contention were to be resolved at a meeting of the two presidents. The text did not include the Ukrainian demand for Russian forces to withdraw to behind the line of contact as of 23 February 2022.

The Istanbul Communiqué laid out Ukraine’s position and its response to the original Russian ultimatum. The document offered far-reaching concessions. Participants in the talks emphasised that the Communiqué had been pre-agreed by the parties and could have formed the basis for a negotiated settlement."


The Ukraine war is without a doubt a proxy war.

Leon Panetta:

"It's a proxy war with Russia whether we say so or not"



Any criticism of US Foreign Policy is defending Kremlin propaganda. Yawn. One again, new age McCarthyism, George Bush you are either with us or with the terrorists. Classic wartime propaganda that keeps repeating with a different template and yet you can see it eventhough it's right in front of you.

 

[MT15]

I only throw out insults in response to someone doing it to me first.

This is just false. Falsity false McFalseface false.

 

[coldseat]

The CIA talking points are accusing anyone who criticizes the US foreign policy as being a Putin or Russia supporter.

You don't just criticize US foreign policy, plenty of people do that. What you do is turn every action, initiative or program by the US government and its foreign policy into some CIA or FBI conspiracy to create more chaos and tension in to world for the sole purpose of feeding the US industrial war complex or some action against Republicans/conservatives to control them.

It's always the same tune with false, misleading or misrepresented "proof" that is easily debunked in 2 min. It's exhausting and tired.