Is Russia about to invade Ukraine? (4 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

Russia continues to mass assets within range of Ukraine - though the official explanations are that they are for various exercises. United States intelligence has noted that Russian operatives in Ukraine could launch 'false flag' operations as a predicate to invasion. The West has pressed for negotiations and on Friday in Geneva, the US Sec. State Blinken will meet with the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov.

Certainly the Russian movements evidence some plan - but what is it? Some analysts believe that Putin's grand scheme involves securing Western commitments that NATO would never expand beyond its current composition. Whether that means action in Ukraine or merely the movement of pieces on the chess board remains to be seen.

VIENNA — No one expected much progress from this past week’s diplomatic marathon to defuse the security crisis Russia has ignited in Eastern Europe by surrounding Ukraine on three sides with 100,000 troops and then, by the White House’s accounting, sending in saboteurs to create a pretext for invasion.

But as the Biden administration and NATO conduct tabletop simulations about how the next few months could unfold, they are increasingly wary of another set of options for President Vladimir V. Putin, steps that are more far-reaching than simply rolling his troops and armor over Ukraine’s border.

Mr. Putin wants to extend Russia’s sphere of influence to Eastern Europe and secure written commitments that NATO will never again enlarge. If he is frustrated in reaching that goal, some of his aides suggested on the sidelines of the negotiations last week, then he would pursue Russia’s security interests with results that would be felt acutely in Europe and the United States.

There were hints, never quite spelled out, that nuclear weapons could be shifted to places — perhaps not far from the United States coastline — that would reduce warning times after a launch to as little as five minutes, potentially igniting a confrontation with echoes of the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

Russia Issues Subtle Threats More Far-Reaching Than a Ukraine Invasion

If the West fails to meet its security demands, Moscow could take measures like placing nuclear missiles close to the U.S. coastline, Russian officials have hinted.

www.nytimes.com

Blinken Will Meet With Russia as U.S. Pushes for More Diplomacy

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken will meet with Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov of Russia in Geneva on Friday as the United States warns that Russia could soon attack Ukraine.

www.nytimes.com

How to think about war in Ukraine

Start with the Ukrainians

snyder.substack.com

 

[Dragon]

Let me tell you something about Ukraine and yes I know a lot about it. We have literally thousands of refugees here. The company I worked for had a small developer office in Kyiev and managed to get the 5 people (all Ukrainian) out of the country WITH their families just before the invasion. We have a yearly company week where they would usually attend and due to the threats and the insecurity at that time, the company offered to pay not only for the transport and stay of my ukrainian Collegues but also their families who would hopefully just get a weeks vacation in Denmark.

Well Russia invaded 2 days later. 2 of my collegues are now back in Ukraine fighting. Their families are still here and the company still pays the usual salary to their families. Both have been back a couple of times on leave to visit and their stories and the images they show - are clear proof that this is very much a war of annihilation. Russia want to destroy every bit of Ukrainian culture and history. They are stealing children and moving them to re-education camps in Russia. How you in any way can defend that is totally absurd!

 

[UriUT]

Let me tell you something about Ukraine and yes I know a lot about it. We have literally thousands of refugees here. The company I worked for had a small developer office in Kyiev and managed to get the 5 people (all Ukrainian) out of the country WITH their families just before the invasion. We have a yearly company week where they would usually attend and due to the threats and the insecurity at that time, the company offered to pay not only for the transport and stay of my ukrainian Collegues but also their families who would hopefully just get a weeks vacation in Denmark.

Well Russia invaded 2 days later. 2 of my collegues are now back in Ukraine fighting. Their families are still here and the company still pays the usual salary to their families. Both have been back a couple of times on leave to visit and their stories and the images they show - are clear proof that this is very much a war of annihilation. Russia want to destroy every bit of Ukrainian culture and history. They are stealing children and moving them to re-education camps in Russia. How you in any way can defend that is totally absurd!

I agree with everything stated here. That said, the criticism of Ukraine on 1. Corruption, 2. Nazism, 3. Banning the opposition parties, are legitimate concerns. The problem is, the pro-Russia elements are using these to undermine Ukraine's efforts to defend themselves. Worse, those who consume these Russian propaganda lacks the critical thoughts to see the nuance of it and frankly, lacks perspective and self-awareness.

1. Corruption: This is legitimate concern because the West do not want their aid to fall into unwanted hands. Particularly, we do not want our technology exported to the black market or to adversaries like China. Despite Zelensky's efforts to reduce corruption, Ukraine still suffers from it. The old Soviet way is difficult to shake. He fired his defense minister because corruption runs rampant in his ministry. Fortunately, this only involves logistics such as food and supplies. Military equipment are managed by the Ukrainian military and are closely monitored by our accountants and military observers. Reports show not much are unaccounted. Now is this reason to stop aid to Ukraine? No. We have corruption and inefficiencies in our own country. Ukraine has shown good faith to reduce corruption.

2. Nazism: It is true that there are elements of far right extremists in Ukraine. The Azov division is the prime example in 2014. However, Ukraine took measures to reduce this influence by nationalizing the Azov and reduced the nazi elements. Further, prewar elections showed that far right extremists garnered very little support with the electorate in Ukraine. Now, I find it rather disingenuous that elements of far right extremists here (I may add that it is increasing in number) are bringing this up as an argument to stop aid to Ukraine. And at the same time, they ignore Russia's rather more extreme and more pervasive far right nature.

3. Banning opposition political parties: Zelensky's stated that he only banned pro-Russian elements. It's debatable whether that's true. And while most of the banned parties are small, some are significant. One belonged to Medvedchuk, Putin's close friend. But here's the thing. Ukraine is at war and is under marshal law. Should this continue after the war, that would be concerning. He is trying to galvanize his population to fight an existential war. He has not shown human rights abuse tendency. Plus, during the American revolution, did we not tar and feather royalists? I'm certain royalist print was frowned upon.

All these complaints have been weighed and measured since the start of the invasion. Only the low depth ai still find these to be valid reasons to stop aid to Ukraine.

 

[DaveXA]

I agree with everything stated here. That said, the criticism of Ukraine on 1. Corruption, 2. Nazism, 3. Banning the opposition parties, are legitimate concerns. The problem is, the pro-Russia elements are using these to undermine Ukraine's efforts to defend themselves. Worse, those who consume these Russian propaganda lacks the critical thoughts to see the nuance of it and frankly, lacks perspective and self-awareness.

1. Corruption: This is legitimate concern because the West do not want their aid to fall into unwanted hands. Particularly, we do not want our technology exported to the black market or to adversaries like China. Despite Zelensky's efforts to reduce corruption, Ukraine still suffers from it. The old Soviet way is difficult to shake. He fired his defense minister because corruption runs rampant in his ministry. Fortunately, this only involves logistics such as food and supplies. Military equipment are managed by the Ukrainian military and are closely monitored by our accountants and military observers. Reports show not much are unaccounted. Now is this reason to stop aid to Ukraine? No. We have corruption and inefficiencies in our own country. Ukraine has shown good faith to reduce corruption.

Well said.

2. Nazism: It is true that there are elements of far right extremists in Ukraine. The Azov division is the prime example in 2014. However, Ukraine took measures to reduce this influence by nationalizing the Azov and reduced the nazi elements. Further, prewar elections showed that far right extremists garnered very little support with the electorate in Ukraine. Now, I find it rather disingenuous that elements of far right extremists here (I may add that it is increasing in number) are bringing this up as an argument to stop aid to Ukraine. And at the same time, they ignore Russia's rather more extreme and more pervasive far right nature.

Yeah, and there's plenty of that here in the US if you know where to look. And you don't have to look all that far.

3. Banning opposition political parties: Zelensky's stated that he only banned pro-Russian elements. It's debatable whether that's true. And while most of the banned parties are small, some are significant. One belonged to Medvedchuk, Putin's close friend. But here's the thing. Ukraine is at war and is under marshal law. Should this continue after the war, that would be concerning. He is trying to galvanize his population to fight an existential war. He has not shown human rights abuse tendency. Plus, during the American revolution, did we not tar and feather royalists? I'm certain royalist print was frowned upon.

Indeed.

All these complaints have been weighed and measured since the start of the invasion. Only the low depth ai still find these to be valid reasons to stop aid to Ukraine.

Yeah, I would say all 3 points merit discussion, and Ukraine has addressed all substantially enough that their continued support is more than justified.

 

[efil4]

Just to remind all what Ukraine is battling-

 

[SaintForLife]

Using the term whitewashing when talking about Nazis running things in Ukraine is incredibly ironic, not to mention based on outright lies. You have zero credibility. Cya.

You said my previous post sounded like Russian propaganda. I posted links showing it was all true.

You ignored that and doubled down on something else that is true that you claim is based on "outright lies".

Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem

As Ukraine's struggle against Russia and its proxies continues, Kiev must also contend with a growing problem behind the front lines: far-right vigilantes who are willing to use intimidation and even violence to advance their agendas, and who often do so with the tacit approval of law...

www.reuters.com

Facebook Allows Praise of Neo-Nazi Ukrainian Battalion If It Fights Russian Invasion

Facebook classifies the Azov Batallion as a particularly dangerous hate group but will allow praise of its defense of Ukraine against Russian forces.

theintercept.com

Some have posted this reporter's articles often:

 

[efil4]

You said my previous post sounded like Russian propaganda. I posted links showing it was all true.

You ignored that and doubled down on something else that is true that you claim is based on "outright lies".

Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem

As Ukraine's struggle against Russia and its proxies continues, Kiev must also contend with a growing problem behind the front lines: far-right vigilantes who are willing to use intimidation and even violence to advance their agendas, and who often do so with the tacit approval of law...

www.reuters.com

Facebook Allows Praise of Neo-Nazi Ukrainian Battalion If It Fights Russian Invasion

Facebook classifies the Azov Batallion as a particularly dangerous hate group but will allow praise of its defense of Ukraine against Russian forces.

theintercept.com

Some have posted this reporter's articles often:

We have a boat load of Nazis here. Some were even lauded by our previous POTUS.

So Russia invaded Ukraine to rid them of Nazis is like saying its ok if Mexico invaded US to rid us of our Nazi sympathizer problem

Meanwhile Russia continues to target civilians en masse.

Guess that's just collateral damage huh?

Tired of your tropes. You have bought in hook, line and sinker and it's pathetic.

BTW Azov ain't running anything like @DaveXA said.

What they are doing is defending their land from the Orc invasion. Ukraine.

 

[DaveXA]

You said my previous post sounded like Russian propaganda. I posted links showing it was all true.

You ignored that and doubled down on something else that is true that you claim is based on "outright lies".

Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem

As Ukraine's struggle against Russia and its proxies continues, Kiev must also contend with a growing problem behind the front lines: far-right vigilantes who are willing to use intimidation and even violence to advance their agendas, and who often do so with the tacit approval of law...

www.reuters.com

Facebook Allows Praise of Neo-Nazi Ukrainian Battalion If It Fights Russian Invasion

Facebook classifies the Azov Batallion as a particularly dangerous hate group but will allow praise of its defense of Ukraine against Russian forces.

theintercept.com

Some have posted this reporter's articles often:

God you're gullible. Smh.

 

[Lapaz]

You said my previous post sounded like Russian propaganda. I posted links showing it was all true.

You ignored that and doubled down on something else that is true that you claim is based on "outright lies".

Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem

As Ukraine's struggle against Russia and its proxies continues, Kiev must also contend with a growing problem behind the front lines: far-right vigilantes who are willing to use intimidation and even violence to advance their agendas, and who often do so with the tacit approval of law...

www.reuters.com

Facebook Allows Praise of Neo-Nazi Ukrainian Battalion If It Fights Russian Invasion

Facebook classifies the Azov Batallion as a particularly dangerous hate group but will allow praise of its defense of Ukraine against Russian forces.

theintercept.com

Some have posted this reporter's articles often:

You are spouting Russian propaganda. The percent of nazis in Ukraine is no different than most countries. We have nazis in the US too. The Nazis get about 3% support in Ukraine. It’s a joke and disingenuous to suggest the war has anything to do with the presence of Nazis in Ukraine. That is a lie that Putin is feeding the public. The Azov regiment is about 1/5th of the Ukrainian army, and 20% of those are Nazis, but that means their army has about 1/25th nazis. They get support not because of their politics, but because they fight the invaders. We have lots of racists in our army too. Putin uses the same technique as Trump of convincing people by repeating lies.

The Facts on 'De-Nazifying' Ukraine - FactCheck.org

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky says Russia’s talk of “de-Nazifying” Ukraine is a non-starter in peace negotiations. We’ll explain what these claims are all about and why experts say they are misleading.

www.factcheck.org

How the Russian Media Spread False Claims About Ukrainian Nazis (Published 2022)

An analysis of nearly eight million articles about Ukraine from Russian websites shows that references to Nazism have spiked to unprecedented levels during the war.

www.nytimes.com

 

[efil4]

God you're gullible. Smh.

He ain't gullible...he is bought and paid for.

Clearly he is tasked with flooding posts like the one above with multiple, very loosely related opinions, overwhelm the conversation to distract from the fact that he has no real knowledge...just does what tasked to do

 

[DaveXA]

He ain't gullible...he is bought and paid for.

Clearly he is tasked with flooding posts like the one above with multiple, very loosely related opinions, overwhelm the conversation to distract from the fact that he has no real knowledge...just does what tasked to do

I'm done with him tbh. At least in this thread. He's at minimum a Russian sympathizer and more likely a Russian troll. His opinions on Ukraine aren't worth reading.

 

[MT15]

He says he “proves” his Russian propaganda by quoting Russian cutouts. Known Russian sympathizers, and doesn’t see a problem with it. It’s flat out ridiculous.

 

[Lapaz]

I'm done with him tbh. At least in this thread. He's at minimum a Russian sympathizer and more likely a Russian troll. His opinions on Ukraine aren't worth reading.

I wonder where else he posts Russian propaganda? That’s the battle facing America. There are probably many small sites like this one that don’t have the resources to determine where the posts originate. He could be from one of the Russian trolling factories for all we know.

 

[efil4]

I'm done with him tbh. At least in this thread. He's at minimum a Russian sympathizer and more likely a Russian troll. His opinions on Ukraine aren't worth reading.

He posted well over an hour ago, 4 different replies and he hasn't been back yet to add to his post.

Meaning he is out of the alloted propaganda so either has to find and collate and post or wait for the next tranche to come in and run and post.

 

[efil4]

I wonder where else he posts Russian propaganda? That’s the battle facing America. There are probably many small sites like this one that don’t have the resources to determine where the posts originate. He could be from one of the Russian trolling factories for all we know.

I have long believed this (as I've said numerous times here ).

He posts and disengages almost all the time.

 

[J-DONK]

We have a boat load of Nazis here. Some were even lauded by our previous POTUS.

Yeah I don't get the neo nazi critique. I'm sure Ukraine does have a problem with it. Para-military groups like Azov seem to be rife with those kind of individuals. You see the exact same thing in America. The U.S. military has a well known, and documented problem with white supremacist in it's ranks.

What exactly is SFL's point? Ukraine's moral superiority to Russia comes from defending it's sovereign territory as the non-aggressor. They also have a well documented preference to minimize civilian causalities. It doesn't come from being less racist then Russia. It's as if someone wants to create a strawman.

 

[efil4]

Yeah I don't get the neo nazi critique. I'm sure Ukraine does have a problem with it. Para-military groups like Azov seem to be rife with those kind of individuals. You see the exact same thing in America. The U.S. military has a well known, and documented problem with white supremacist in it's ranks.

What exactly is SFL's point? Ukraine's moral superiority to Russia comes from defending it's sovereign territory as the non-aggressor. They also have a well documented preference to minimize civilian causalities. It doesn't come from being less racist then Russia. It's as if someone wants to create a strawman.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

RWNJ's have made it clear they admire Putin. they are hiding it less and less..

 

[SaintForLife]

I'm done with him tbh. At least in this thread. He's at minimum a Russian sympathizer and more likely a Russian troll. His opinions on Ukraine aren't worth reading.

I literally made two posts that showed what you claimed wasn't true was actually true. You had zero response and all you could muster was a vague answer that didn't even mention how you were shown to be wrong.

Imagine being so engrossed in war propaganda from the corporate media that you don't even know basic facts about Ukraine or the war. When confronted with evidence that shows what you said wasn't true, you resort to the CIA/neocon strategy of accusing anyone who criticizes the Ukraine war or US foreign policy as a Russian supporter.

Is that you George Bush?

Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.