Increasing racist attacks on Asians (1 Viewer)

Farb

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/02/09/attacks-asian-american-elderly-/

I will admit, I didn't know anything about these these strings of attacks and the murder of elderly Asian American out west. Really disturbing. In most cases, they have caught sub human scum that have committed these crimes.
In the case of the murder of Ratanapakdee, I sincerely hope the death penalty will be sought, although that is not possible in the state of CA.
 

MT15

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Yes that’s the way I understand it.

I think it’s a recognition that crimes committed against random people because of a trait over which they have no control is worse than garden variety crimes.
 

SaulGoodmanEsq

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I get what you are saying and I tend to agree but my question remains, if Man A is gay/black/asian/white and Man B uses a slur that is relatable to man A, does Man B's punches/kicks do more damage during the assault? No they don't

I still don't understand why a 'hate' crime is more damaging than a 'regular' crime. The result is the same, but now we get to label it?


Every state in the U.S. has varying penalties for crimes -- prime example being murder -- that depends on intent/state of mind. The logical extension of the argument you're making is that people should be given the same prison sentence for negligent homicide, manslaughter, second degree murder, first degree murder, etc. But... that's not the case. State criminal statutes aren't predicated on the supposition that 'oh well, the victim is dead so the penalty should be the same regardless of the perpetrator's intent.'

We affix 'labels' to a variety of crimes that yield the same 'result/damage.' Why is this the case? Most likely because criminal laws are not merely about retribution but also about deterrence. Tacking on enhanced sentencing for a hate crime is simply adding a deterrence for people who would assault and/or kill someone based on their race/gender/sexual orientation. Whether or not you personally think those work as a deterrent is not exactly the point as the laws are promulgated by state legislatures who make the collective decision for the citizenry. It's no different than having stiffer penalties for premeditated murder, murder of police officers, etc.
 
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MT15

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Thanks for a better explanation of what I was trying to express. The different levels of punishment for the same crime is embedded in our justice system. It’s a mystery why the penalty for hate crimes would be where OP decides to draw the line, isn’t it? 🤨
 
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Farb

Farb

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So on this one that just happened, the police haven't determined if this was a 'hate' crime or not. Hard to tell because those blows the guy landed looked pretty damaging but they were able to fight him off so I guess maybe he didn't have 'hate' in his heart?

That looked like attempted murder to me.....but maybe it was super mean attempted murder?

Edited to posta link that works.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...d-cinder-block-they-closed-baltimore-n1266378
 

Saint by the Bay

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If I had to guess that one was a robbery attempt since he entered the store as they were trying to close it. Just a guess though, I don't know all the facts.
 

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So @Farb what do you think should happen if an assault occurs that is a hate crime and the local jurisdiction doesn’t press charges or barely punishes the criminal. This is the main purpose of Hate crime laws to make sure where law enforcement and the judicial system is racist or has a blind eye towards it. Remember the civil rights activist that were murdered in Mississippi. That’s where it got it’s roots.
 
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Farb

Farb

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So @Farb what do you think should happen if an assault occurs that is a hate crime and the local jurisdiction doesn’t press charges or barely punishes the criminal. This is the main purpose of Hate crime laws to make sure where law enforcement and the judicial system is racist or has a blind eye towards it. Remember the civil rights activist that were murdered in Mississippi. That’s where it got it’s roots.
See, now that is a point I can actually understand get behind. I see the logic behind that. In that instance, I think there might be some grounds for that, however, in 2021, I don't think that is the case any longer.

If that is what 'hate' crimes are there for, why not make all crimes against a person a 'hate' crime? If a gay guys beats the crap out of a straight guys and yells 'breeder' in mid swing, shouldn't that be a hate crime too? Why not?
 

Bigdaddysaints

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If he specifically beats him up because he is straight, then yes, its a hate crime.
So you don't think in 2021 there are communities that don't over look racial crimes?
 
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Farb

Farb

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If he specifically beats him up because he is straight, then yes, its a hate crime.
So you don't think in 2021 there are communities that don't over look racial crimes?
Honestly, probably not enough to warrant federal government intrusion. Are there exceptions, absolutely. But I also think that could go against whatever the category someone wants to put other humans in.
 

SaulGoodmanEsq

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See, now that is a point I can actually understand get behind. I see the logic behind that. In that instance, I think there might be some grounds for that, however, in 2021, I don't think that is the case any longer.

If that is what 'hate' crimes are there for, why not make all crimes against a person a 'hate' crime? If a gay guys beats the crap out of a straight guys and yells 'breeder' in mid swing, shouldn't that be a hate crime too? Why not?
You didn't direct this response at me but, unfortunately, it seems you choose not to respond to my post that gave a pretty detailed explanation of the reasoning behind such distinctions. Unfortunately you often display a pattern of ignoring substantive answers to your posited questions and reply to ones that you can pivot into sarcastic responses.

To reiterate, by your argument, you don't think we should have distinctions between manslaughter and first degree murder.
 
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Farb

Farb

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You didn't direct this response at me but, unfortunately, it seems you choose not to respond to my post that gave a pretty detailed explanation of the reasoning behind such distinctions. Unfortunately you often display a pattern of ignoring substantive answers to your posited questions and reply to ones that you can pivot into sarcastic responses.

To reiterate, by your argument, you don't think we should have distinctions between manslaughter and first degree murder.
No where have I stated that. Remember, I think the laws are great just the way they are.....

I apologize they way I post upsets you. I think the best course would be not to reply to me, no?
I disagree with your posts and don't find anything worth discussing in most of them, so I don't engage with your condescending 'coaching' posts and chose to ignore your sincere help on what to digest with regards to news and information and how to better phrase and fit in more with your opinions.

I thought you were a little more intuitive but I do hope I did a better job explaining why I don't engage with some on this board. No offense of course.
 

DaveXA

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No where have I stated that. Remember, I think the laws are great just the way they are.....

I apologize they way I post upsets you. I think the best course would be not to reply to me, no?
I disagree with your posts and don't find anything worth discussing in most of them, so I don't engage with your condescending 'coaching' posts and chose to ignore your sincere help on what to digest with regards to news and information and how to better phrase and fit in more with your opinions.

I thought you were a little more intuitive but I do hope I did a better job explaining why I don't engage with some on this board. No offense of course.

If you think the laws are great just as they are, then you shouldn't have any issue with hate crime laws. :shrug:
 
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Farb

Farb

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I think hate crimes are stupid. I think they are a device for activists and politicians to virtue signal, a dog whistle as the the radicals leftys like to say, to the stupid ones among us, and sadly they believe it is a good thing while in fact, it is just a separate form of basic racism.

If person decides to kill a person because they are white, then that is 1st degree murder. If a person decides to kill a person because they are black, then that is also 1st degree murder but now you sprinkle in a 'hate' crime? Why is one more severe?

1st Degree murder is 1st degree murder. I still don't understand why it matters what race, sex or religion the victim and criminal are. Manslaughter is manslaughter. Two very different crimes with only death of the victim being relatable.

In the bar scenario we were discussing, to me it sounds like we are trying to regulate speech. Why does it matter what a person says to another person during the commission of a crime? It doesn't. It just makes everyone feel better.

If Man A is pumping gas and is a Asian guy, Man B is a black a guy and randomly attacks A and screams "I love trump and take your virus arse back to where you came from" as he is punching Man A. Then that is a hate crime, No?
Now say Man A covers and defends himself and beats man B to death in self defense, but in his fit of rage and self preservation he yells "I will kill you N word" is that a hate crime or did he yell something in a fit of passion and rage? Do the hate crimes cancel out?

Like I said, the current laws we have pretty much handle all scenarios. The only scenario we don't cover is damage to ones feelings but that is not the laws job to protect feelings.
 

DaveXA

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I think hate crimes are stupid. I think they are a device for activists and politicians to virtue signal, a dog whistle as the the radicals leftys like to say, to the stupid ones among us, and sadly they believe it is a good thing while in fact, it is just a separate form of basic racism.

If person decides to kill a person because they are white, then that is 1st degree murder. If a person decides to kill a person because they are black, then that is also 1st degree murder but now you sprinkle in a 'hate' crime? Why is one more severe?

1st Degree murder is 1st degree murder. I still don't understand why it matters what race, sex or religion the victim and criminal are. Manslaughter is manslaughter. Two very different crimes with only death of the victim being relatable.

In the bar scenario we were discussing, to me it sounds like we are trying to regulate speech. Why does it matter what a person says to another person during the commission of a crime? It doesn't. It just makes everyone feel better.

If Man A is pumping gas and is a Asian guy, Man B is a black a guy and randomly attacks A and screams "I love trump and take your virus arse back to where you came from" as he is punching Man A. Then that is a hate crime, No?
Now say Man A covers and defends himself and beats man B to death in self defense, but in his fit of rage and self preservation he yells "I will kill you N word" is that a hate crime or did he yell something in a fit of passion and rage? Do the hate crimes cancel out?

Like I said, the current laws we have pretty much handle all scenarios. The only scenario we don't cover is damage to ones feelings but that is not the laws job to protect feelings.

You do realize hate crime laws are currently on the books, right? And no, currently laws don't handle all scenarios. Laws are being removed and added all the time. Some no longer apply, some new ones take into account advances in tech, while still others are added, removed or tweaked because of changes in our culture and way of doing things.
 

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If the guy in the article did come back and shot up the place would that be a hate crime?
==============================================

When nurse practitioner Helen Nguyen walked into work at a clinic in Albuquerque, New Mexico, a few weeks ago, she had already been noticing an increase in awkward comments about her appearance and other "outright racist behaviors" toward her since the pandemic started, she told TODAY....

"A patient greeted me with, 'Welcome to America,' and he said that really loudly, emphasizing that, and I responded right away that I'm American. I was born here," she recalled.

The patient brushed off her response, Nguyen said, before asserting that he'd waited a while to secure his appointment and "wasn't sure what kind of provider he was going to get."

"He asked me for my credentials, and he asked, 'Did you get your training here?' I was like, 'What do you mean here?' ... He was like, 'Here, this country.' I already told him that I was American, so for him to ask me again just felt like he dismissed that. Even if I was born here, I wasn't American."...............

Michelle Gutierrez-Vo, a Filipino nurse at a primary care setting in Fremont, California, told TODAY that she's had to intervene multiple times in recent months when patients have gotten aggressive with greeters doing check-ins and temperature screenings, who are mostly Asian at her workplace.

"More than one occasion, the patient actually got belligerent and said, 'I'm gonna come back and shoot you all,'" Gutierrez-Vo, 48, recalled. When these incidents happen, Gutierrez-Vo has had to step in, try to talk the patients down and call security. "It's terrifying," she added.

"You're in utter disbelief,"
Another instance that stands out happened at the beginning of the year.

"The patient started, from zero to five seconds, really screaming at this Filipina greeter," she recalled. "He started saying, 'Don't talk to me like that, I don't understand what you're saying. Speak English,' and she was speaking English. ... She was really being professional to the patient and saying, 'I'm here to help you.'"...........

 
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Farb

Farb

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You do realize hate crime laws are currently on the books, right? And no, currently laws don't handle all scenarios. Laws are being removed and added all the time. Some no longer apply, some new ones take into account advances in tech, while still others are added, removed or tweaked because of changes in our culture and way of doing things.
I do and I have said I think they are stupid.
You are correct, laws do change as society progresses however, I don't think the laws for murder or assault change all that much over time so I am not getting your argument. It is also built into the system to make those changes, and they do.
Maybe a change with the invention of motor vehicles, drone, firearms? Again, not following on this.
 

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