Increasing racist attacks on Asians (3 Viewers)

Farb

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/02/09/attacks-asian-american-elderly-/

I will admit, I didn't know anything about these these strings of attacks and the murder of elderly Asian American out west. Really disturbing. In most cases, they have caught sub human scum that have committed these crimes.
In the case of the murder of Ratanapakdee, I sincerely hope the death penalty will be sought, although that is not possible in the state of CA.
 
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Farb

Farb

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No, but that is not what he is describing and you know it. He wasn't simply bullied, he was singled out because of his faith/religion, by a teacher no less....to call it simply bullied is beneath....well....everyone....IMO of course...

To me it is the definition of hate....and there is way too much of it out there....still....
I agree there is far too much racial 'hate' out there, I just don't think the state legislating 'hate' accomplished anything but allowing politicians to virtue signal and gain votes over not actually doing anything.
 

brandon

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I agree there is far too much racial 'hate' out there, I just don't think the state legislating 'hate' accomplished anything but allowing politicians to virtue signal and gain votes over not actually doing anything.
So what would you recommend? Just let the free market decide how to deal with hate?
 

CoolBrees

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You do know that the “hate crimes” charge make them a federal crime and carry much stiffer penalties, right?

of course you do.

so why are you hung up? The additional charge is added on a case by case basis when warranted. There is no mythical “slippery slope” that we might go down; no dystopic hellscape where woke liberals are creating laws regarding mental safe spaces or forcing gender neutrality surgery on people.

I don’t even know what virtue signaling is. Literally it means pointing to a virtue. Ok? Is there virtue smoke signaling? Virtue Semafore, maybe?
 
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Farb

Farb

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Why should assault on an Asian person bear stiffer and federal penalties than if that same criminal assaulted a white person?
 

brandon

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Why should assault on an Asian person bear stiffer and federal penalties than if that same criminal assaulted a white person?
It shouldn’t.

If the attack was perpetrated on the Asian person because of their race, it should receive the stiffer hate crime penalty.

And if an attack is perpetrated on the white person because of their race, it should also receive the stiffer hate crime penalty.

We can’t help it if no one is attacking white people because they’re white.
 

Bigdaddysaints

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Why should assault on an Asian person bear stiffer and federal penalties than if that same criminal assaulted a white person?
Are you saying no one is ever charged with a hate crime against white people? or are you just one of those people who think racism doesn't much exist and is never a factor for some attacks?
 

Optimus Prime

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It is a question of what exactly constitutes a hate crime

In college here is an example we discussed

Two Scenarios:

Scenario #1 - 2 guys are in a bar. they don't know each other, they aren't seated by each other. Man A is walking by and bumps into Man B.
Man B angrily says "Watch where you're your going f----- (gay slur)"
Man A angrily says "Fork you!"
Man B proceeds to beat the holy hell out of Man A and beats him half to death
Man B is arrested and gets a bunch of charges

Scenario #2 - The same exact scenario as #1 only this time it turns out that Man A is actually a gay man. Man B didn't know that, the bump was the first time they laid eyes on each other, but does that fact turn this into a hate crime? If Man B has any homophobic things in his past would that make it a hate crime?
 

DaveXA

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It is a question of what exactly constitutes a hate crime

In college here is an example we discussed

Two Scenarios:

Scenario #1 - 2 guys are in a bar. they don't know each other, they aren't seated by each other. Man A is walking by and bumps into Man B.
Man B angrily says "Watch where you're your going f----- (gay slur)"
Man A angrily says "Fork you!"
Man B proceeds to beat the holy hell out of Man A and beats him half to death
Man B is arrested and gets a bunch of charges

Scenario #2 - The same exact scenario as #1 only this time it turns out that Man A is actually a gay man. Man B didn't know that, the bump was the first time they laid eyes on each other, but does that fact turn this into a hate crime? If Man B has any homophobic things in his past would that make it a hate crime?
No, but how do you prove intent based on whether someone knew or not? I'm glad I don't have to be the one who has to determine that.
 

Bigdaddysaints

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It is a question of what exactly constitutes a hate crime

In college here is an example we discussed

Two Scenarios:

Scenario #1 - 2 guys are in a bar. they don't know each other, they aren't seated by each other. Man A is walking by and bumps into Man B.
Man B angrily says "Watch where you're your going f----- (gay slur)"
Man A angrily says "Fork you!"
Man B proceeds to beat the holy hell out of Man A and beats him half to death
Man B is arrested and gets a bunch of charges

Scenario #2 - The same exact scenario as #1 only this time it turns out that Man A is actually a gay man. Man B didn't know that, the bump was the first time they laid eyes on each other, but does that fact turn this into a hate crime? If Man B has any homophobic things in his past would that make it a hate crime?
I guess it would come down to proving that he knew he was gay. Its trickier in this situation than say if we are talking about black, asian, latino. that isn't something that you can say, "i didn't know".
 

SaulGoodmanEsq

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No, but how do you prove intent based on whether someone knew or not? I'm glad I don't have to be the one who has to determine that.
Intent is frequently a necessary element to prove in a variety of criminal violations -- just need a sufficient amount of evidence (direct or circumstantial) to convince a trier of fact be it judge or jury trial.
 

Saint by the Bay

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Some people have that "yeah, I'm off my medication" look. This woman passed that point a while ago.
 
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Farb

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It is a question of what exactly constitutes a hate crime

In college here is an example we discussed

Two Scenarios:

Scenario #1 - 2 guys are in a bar. they don't know each other, they aren't seated by each other. Man A is walking by and bumps into Man B.
Man B angrily says "Watch where you're your going f----- (gay slur)"
Man A angrily says "Fork you!"
Man B proceeds to beat the holy hell out of Man A and beats him half to death
Man B is arrested and gets a bunch of charges

Scenario #2 - The same exact scenario as #1 only this time it turns out that Man A is actually a gay man. Man B didn't know that, the bump was the first time they laid eyes on each other, but does that fact turn this into a hate crime? If Man B has any homophobic things in his past would that make it a hate crime?
Why does it matter who Man A preferers to have sex with? Assault is assault.
Are we more worried about how Man A feelings were hurt by a generic slang term uttered during a fight or about him getting beat half to death?

It is a shame those young ladies were not armed in the video
 

Optimus Prime

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Why does it matter who Man A preferers to have sex with? Assault is assault.
Are we more worried about how Man A feelings were hurt by a generic slang term uttered during a fight or about him getting beat half to death?

It is a shame those young ladies were not armed in the video

That's the question

Man B may have meant it as a generic insult but if Man A is gay does it change from a generic term to a hateful homophobic slur?

Is every crime against Blacks, Asians, Hispanics or gays a hate crime?

No but where is the line and who decides between 'it definitely was', 'it definitely wasn't' or 'maybe it was, maybe it wasn't'

If Man B say "Watch where you're going jerk (or forker or butt crevasse)" it's easy to assume it was just a terrible bar fight

But when a gay man is called that word that puts hate crime on the table. It may come off the table later, but it definitely starts out on the table
 
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Farb

Farb

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That's the question

Man B may have meant it as a generic insult but if Man A is gay does it change from a generic term to a hateful homophobic slur?

Is every crime against Blacks, Asians, Hispanics or gays a hate crime?

No but where is the line and who decides between 'it definitely was', 'it definitely wasn't' or 'maybe it was, maybe it wasn't'

If Man B say "Watch where you're going jerk (or forker or butt crevasse)" it's easy to assume it was just a terrible bar fight

But when a gay man is called that word that puts hate crime on the table. It may come off the table later, but it definitely starts out on the table

I get what you are saying and I tend to agree but my question remains, if Man A is gay/black/asian/white and Man B uses a slur that is relatable to man A, does Man B's punches/kicks do more damage during the assault? No they don't

I still don't understand why a 'hate' crime is more damaging than a 'regular' crime. The result is the same, but now we get to label it?
 

Optimus Prime

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I get what you are saying and I tend to agree but my question remains, if Man A is gay/black/asian/white and Man B uses a slur that is relatable to man A, does Man B's punches/kicks do more damage during the assault? No they don't

I still don't understand why a 'hate' crime is more damaging than a 'regular' crime. The result is the same, but now we get to label it?

I think it’s more a case of does the beating happen at all if Man A is not a gay man?

If the fight would have happened would the beating have been as brutal if he wasn’t gay?

are you suggesting that there should be no such thing as a hate crime?

if you aren’t suggesting that what would constitute a no question hate crime to you?
 
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