Immigration is completely out of control (1 Viewer)

[SystemShock]

A couple of days ago, one of the main US-MX border points of entry was blocked by 1000's of migrants demanding entry into the country, which caused chaos for those who lawfully cross the border on business, for work, or for delivery of goods, both ways.

Lawful border crossings are getting progressively worse across the border, and drug cartels are finding it easier to move product, as the CBP has to transfer personnel and efforts to the processing of migrants.

It's not different on MX's South border. Yesterday, ~5000 migrants stormed into Chiapas all the way to the INM building (INM is immigration) running over fences, barricades, and elements of the National Guard. They are now taking over an ecological park in Tapachula, Chiapas, which it's going to be severely affected, as it's been the case with just about everywhere migrants squat.

Unfortunately, Juan Trump (that's Donald Trump's pet name for the President of México) was bamboozled by his "friend" Donald into making MX a "lobby" for migrants trying to reach the U.S.

Many people would argue that migrants are "good for the economy", but that is not always the case. Billions of dollars leave the U.S. economy every year, because migrants send money from the U.S. to other countries to support families there. The biggest destinations are India and MX, to the tune of 100 billion dollars in 2023 alone, according to the Bank of México (kind of like the MX version of the Fed). These billions of dollars do not circulate in the U.S. economy.

Speaking of inflation, the past year, the U.S. dollar has lost ~20% of its value against the MX peso. One of the main reasons for it, is the amount of money being sent to MX from the U.S. And MX is the U.S. 2nd largest trading partner.

Gregg Abbott is a lot of things, but I don't blame him for his attempts at curbing the hordes of people demanding entry into the U.S., even the busing of migrants to other States, making some put their money where their mouth is, like the Mayor of NYC, who was so welcoming of migrants, until he he got a taste, then went crying to the federal government for more money, while the shelters were at full capacity; shelters which BTW serve the NYC poor as well.

And please, no one mention a wall. There is a wall. A wall can be climbed; a wall can be dug under.; holes can be punched through walls.

 

[SystemShock]

I don’t trust the guy who tweeted and my guess is he left out a lot of context from the press Secretary quote.

I don't think he did. I don't remember a time when border crossings were shut down (and it's happened at least twice in the last year) because CBP couldn't handle the volume, and had to reorg to get more people to handle migrants, or thousands of migrants shutting down a border crossing demanding entry into the country.

 

[Dragon]

The first step should be asylum claims are only processed in the embassy or a consulate of your country of origin, not just show up at the border and demand entry.

Makes no sense at all. If you flee your country due to persecution how do you expect anyone to go through an application period while staying in the country where your life maybe in danger!

 

[SystemShock]

Makes no sense at all. If you flee your country due to persecution how do you expect anyone to go through an application period while staying in the country where your life maybe in danger!

The thousands of people who are amassed at the MX-US border, I can't say it is the case for every single person, so I'll say that the overwhelming majority are not being persecuted by anyone or anything other than poverty, and their lives aren't in any more danger than the lives of people living in Baltimore or Detroit. And believe it or not, there is plenty of unaddressed poverty and homelessness in the U.S., no need to import it.

 

[Dragon]

The thousands of people who are amassed at the MX-US border, I can't say it is the case for every single person, so I'll say that the overwhelming majority are not being persecuted by anyone or anything other than poverty, and their lives aren't in any more danger than the lives of people living in Baltimore or Detroit. And believe it or not, there is plenty of unaddressed poverty and homelessness in the U.S., no need to import it.

Two different issues. One does not exclude the other. Refugees are not the reason that people live in powety and there will be no more or less regardless of the number of refugees. And another big difference - many refugees are endangered by their own police and government. That should not be the case anywhere in the US

 

[SystemShock]

Two different issues. One does not exclude the other. Refugees are not the reason that people live in powety and there will be no more or less regardless of the number of refugees. And another big difference - many refugees are endangered by their own police and government. That should not be the case anywhere in the US

In on themselves they are two different issues, but just about everyone amassed at the U.S.-MX border and the thousands currently marching towards the border are not feeling government persecution or war zones. They are poor, and they want to make it to the U.S. to follow the "American Dream".

I never said that refugees are the reason why people live in poverty. What I am saying is that there are enough poor and homeless in the U.S., and not much is done for them, yet, the government not only is forced to spend money on the poor of other countries, just because they showed up at the border, but they cause problems with U.S.-MX commerce, which costs millions(if not billions) of dollars in losses both sides of the border and contribute to inflation. And no, it's not Musk/Gates/Bezos types who are losing money.

In MX, people are protesting outside the President's palace because IMSS (the government healthcare) does not have the proper drugs for treating pediatric cancer; In the State of Chiapas, there is another caravan walking around, but they are Lacandones (Chiapas region Mayas) who have been ousted of their lands, and no one protects them or seeks justice for them; but then the National Guard has to protect the caravans marching through MX that the idiot MX President allows, giving them food, water, and medicines, and then they get angry because they are given only beans and tortillas to eat.

Ask black or brown people in the U.S. if the don't feel endangered by their own police.

 

[LA - L.A.]

In on themselves they are two different issues, but just about everyone amassed at the U.S.-MX border and the thousands currently marching towards the border are not feeling government persecution or war zones.

The US doesn't require government persecution or living in a war zone to request and be granted asylum. Maybe Mexico does, but the US doesn't.

 

[SystemShock]

The US doesn't require government persecution or living in a war zone to request and be granted asylum. Maybe Mexico does, but the US doesn't.

And?
It may not be a legal requirement to request asylum, but that is the implication of the word "asylum", that one's seeking protection from someone or something. And I don't think any country can offer protection from poverty to the entire world.

So you'd be ok with anyone around the world who says he's poor to just come to the U.S., and be let in?

 

[Saint by the Bay]

The first step should be asylum claims are only processed in the embassy or a consulate of your country of origin, not just show up at the border and demand entry.

That isn’t practical. Their governments and the cartels are already monitoring those areas. It isn’t safe to have them do it there. They are already migrating up through Mexico. Do it at Mexico’s southern border. The US presence there would be a boost to the local economies, Mexico wouldn’t have migrants making their way up through their country, and it was end the problem on our border. It’s win win win to process it at Mexicos southern border and doesn’t put those requesting asylum in danger.

 

[SystemShock]

That isn’t practical. Their governments and the cartels are already monitoring those areas.

What makes you think governments and cartels are monitoring anything; why would they be doing that? And where? All over the world?

Do it at Mexico’s southern border.

Hell, no.
And putting any sort of foreign authority in Chiapas? That's going to go well.

 

[SaintForLife]

It is a fact that Schumer invited the Senate GOP to put what they wanted to do about the border down in writing so they could talk about it and get some changes in the bill. And the Senate GOP refused, and went home. I read that only 17 GOP senators even showed up on their last day in session.

It is also a fact that when the GOP controlled both houses of Congress for 2 years during the Trump Administration they didn’t really do any type of immigration reform at all. It’s not something they really want to solve.

The Biden immigration policy is open borders. This is what he called for as a candidate.

 

[MT15]

The Biden immigration policy is open borders. This is what he called for as a candidate.

So that clip cuts Biden off mid-sentence. What did he go on to say?

And you didn’t comment on how the Rs are failing to act in good faith on border issues.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

What makes you think governments and cartels are monitoring anything; why would they be doing that? And where? All over the world?


Hell, no.
And putting any sort of foreign authority in Chiapas? That's going to go well.

Most asylum seekers from South and Central America come from El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Venezuela. I excluded Mexico from the list because I don’t think those are legit (see my other post about reforming asylum laws).

In all of the countries listed government persecution and/or cartel “enslavement” are serious issues and families are absolutely under the microscope. This is why entire families leave instead of one or two people. If you flee, your family pays for it. Requesting asylum in those countries then going home to wait out the process isn’t realistic. It’s an idealistic pipe dream.

I wouldn’t try and put anything in Chiapas. Comitan maybe, but the rest is basically the Wild Wild West. Setting up in Tabasco along the Guatemala border is more realistic. There’s a major road that runs through Guatamela into Mexico there that a lot of migrants already use. It’s mostly farm land down that way without the same strife that exists in Chiapas.

It’s not a perfect plan. No plan is because it’s an incredibly complex problem. The key is finding a way to shift the location of the problem to its epicenter and not allowing the epicenter to move so far north.

 

[SystemShock]

Most asylum seekers from South and Central America come from El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Venezuela. I excluded Mexico from the list because I don’t think those are legit (see my other post about reforming asylum laws).

In all of the countries listed government persecution and/or cartel “enslavement” are serious issues and families are absolutely under the microscope. This is why entire families leave instead of one or two people. If you flee, your family pays for it. Requesting asylum in those countries then going home to wait out the process isn’t realistic. It’s an idealistic pipe dream.

I wouldn’t try and put anything in Chiapas. Comitan maybe, but the rest is basically the Wild Wild West. Setting up in Tabasco along the Guatemala border is more realistic. There’s a major road that runs through Guatamela into Mexico there that a lot of migrants already use. It’s mostly farm land down that way without the same strife that exists in Chiapas.

It’s not a perfect plan. No plan is because it’s an incredibly complex problem. The key is finding a way to shift the location of the problem to its epicenter and not allowing the epicenter to move so far north.

Based on the premises you assert, why would you think Mexicans aren't "legit" asylum seekers? Based on those premises, at least the entire populations of all of the border States would qualify for asylum.

Where are you getting information about families being "under the microscope" in those countries?
Why do you think the MX government doesn't keep tabs on their citizens?

The caravans are not organic, they are organized. If governments and cartels are closely monitoring everyone, wouldn't the governments and cartels target the organizers and their families? Or target the caravans themselves?

And most importantly: why would governments or local cartels forego the billions of dollars that are routinely sent by migrants in the U.S. to their families in their countries of origin?

 

[LA - L.A.]

And?

I was replying directly to you saying this.

just about everyone amassed at the U.S.-MX border and the thousands currently marching towards the border are not feeling government persecution or war zones.

Those are not the only reasons the US grants asylum, so your implication that they aren't legitimate asylum seekers is false. It's really not that complicated.

 

[SystemShock]

I was replying directly to you saying this.


Those are not the only reasons the US grants asylum, so your implication that they aren't legitimate asylum seekers is false.

May be legal, but I don't think it is justifiable to seek asylum for no other reason you want to live somewhere else.

It's really not that complicated.

Cute.

 

[SystemShock]

The Biden immigration policy is open borders. This is what he called for as a candidate.

That's not what he said. He said they should come to the border so they could be heard, not let in the country.

What exactly is your definition of your talking point, "open borders"? Open border to me suggests no border patrol, no entry checkpoints; coming to the U.S. from Mexico, Canada, ship or plane, you just walk or drive right in as if you were driving from Louisiana to Mississippi; you see the sign "Welcome to Mississippi" and just keep on driving.

 

[SaintForLife]

That's not what he said. He said they should come to the border so they could be heard, not let in the country.

I didn't say specifically what he said. I pointed to the video in which he did say" we would immediately surge to the border all the people who are seeking asylum."



Why would he call for that knowing that the asylum process is manipulated by people who have no legitimate asylum claims?

What exactly is your definition of your talking point, "open borders"? Open border to me suggests no border patrol, no entry checkpoints; coming to the U.S. from Mexico, Canada, ship or plane, you just walk or drive right in as if you were driving from Louisiana to Mississippi; you see the sign "Welcome to Mississippi" and just keep on driving.

Open borders is policies and actions that allow record numbers of illegal immigrants into the country.

 

[MT15]

Open borders is policies and actions that allow record numbers of illegal immigrants into the country.

Well, then there is no problem. Asylum seekers are NOT illegal immigrants. Seeking asylum is legal and protected by law. The people you quote are all conflating the two things. And they do it on purpose to get you all riled up.

It is true that the asylum system needs to be reformed, but that is up to Congress not the Administration.