General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (9 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

He implemented much of that via executive order.

I'm not sure anyone has been so wrong on so many things in such a short amount of time since joining this board. You're a record setter.

Build Back Better provisions were merged into the Inflation Reduction Act which the Democrats worked on with Manchin in order to get his vote (he was the hold out on Build Back Better). It wasn't done by Executive Order, it was done through legislation just in a different bill which passed on a 50-50 vote in the Senate.

 

[TampaJoe]

You are making all these claims with zero data to back it up. I don't know that illegal immigration was worse under Biden. I don't know that the social services are strained because of illegal immigration. Are you ever going to provide a source for these claims?

Here is a conserative souce for the first half of the Biden admin, that shows the opposite.

https://www.cato.org/blog/new-data-show-migrants-were-more-likely-be-released-trump-biden

So you are unaware of all the migrants getting free housing and debit cards in NYC and other cities? Really? Haven’t heard about all the migrant camps in LA, Chicago, San Francisco, Baltimore, Washington DC. etc? Just about every major city and state is affected but you haven’t heard? Wow. All I can say.

I mean I guess that’s possible cause you say it was no different in previous andministrations and I can’t remember for the life of me free housing and debit cards in either the Trump or Obama or Bush administrations.

I guess we both need to get out more.

 

[MT15]

I'm not sure anyone has been so wrong on so many things in such a short amount of time since joining this board. You're a record setter.

Build Back Better provisions were merged into the Inflation Reduction Act which the Democrats worked on with Manchin in order to get his vote (he was the hold out on Build Back Better). It wasn't done by Executive Order, it was done through legislation nustnin a different bill which passed on a 50-50 vote in the Senate.

He did try to Executive Order some of the stuff they had to take out of BBB to get Manchin’s vote, but as I recall much, if not all, was struck down by the courts.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

All her policies were on her campaign's website, and several newspapers did outlines of both Trump and Harris' proposals. I find it odd that people talk about not knowing some of this stuff... I did a quick google search and I get several articles about both of them.

I also find it odd that we already went through one Trump administration where the economy did not perform significantly better than under Obama but did increase the deficit massively even before Covid. And then compare against Biden where he came into office with an economy that was halted b/c of Covid and will leave with arguably the best economy in the world right now.

Don't forget all the economists that reviewed their proposals in detail and concluded Harris had the better economic plan.

23 Nobel Prize-winning economists call Harris’ economic plan ‘vastly superior’ to Trump’s | CNN Politics

More than half of the living US recipients of the Nobel Prize for economics signed a letter that called Vice President Kamala Harris’ economic agenda “vastly superior” to the plans laid out by former President Donald Trump.

www.cnn.com

Its amazing how they managed to review plans that didn't even exist.

 

[MT15]

So you are unaware of all the migrants getting free housing and debit cards in NYC and other cities? Really? Haven’t heard about all the migrant camps in LA, Chicago, San Francisco, Baltimore, Washington DC. etc? Just about every major city and state is affected but you haven’t heard? Wow. All I can say.

I mean I guess that’s possible cause you say it was no different in previous andministrations and I can’t remember for the life of me free housing and debit cards in either the Trump or Obama or Bush administrations.

I guess we both need to get out more.

I personally am in Chicago about every 3 months. Can you tell me where are the “migrant camps”? Never seen one, and my son who lives there has never mentioned one.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

He did try to Executive Order some of the stuff they had to take out of BBB to get Manchin’s vote, but as I recall much, if not all, was struck down by the courts.

It was just the loan forgiveness stuff for college. That's what he kept trying to find ways around on. He got some done and some got struck down.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Don't forget all the economists that reviewed their proposals in detail and concluded Harris had the better economic plan.

23 Nobel Prize-winning economists call Harris’ economic plan ‘vastly superior’ to Trump’s | CNN Politics

More than half of the living US recipients of the Nobel Prize for economics signed a letter that called Vice President Kamala Harris’ economic agenda “vastly superior” to the plans laid out by former President Donald Trump.

www.cnn.com

Its amazing how they managed to review plans that didn't even exist.

This is one of the things that I found so frustrating about criticisms of Harris -- "we just don't know enough about her policies". It was maddening, and disingenuous. She had policy proposals. Trump had "concepts of a plan".

 

[TampaJoe]

Yes they sure are. Both Trump and Vance (IIRC) have promised to revoke the legal status of Haitian refugees for one example. Both have also flirted again with a Muslim ban verbally.

I stand corrected. I’m speaking of law abiding legal immigrants that followed the normal process and no folks who were “paroled” under Biden.

We aren’t talking about folks who have lived here and worked here legally for years.

 

[J-DONK]

So you are unaware of all the migrants getting free housing and debit cards in NYC and other cities? Really? Haven’t heard about all the migrant camps in LA, Chicago, San Francisco, Baltimore, Washington DC. etc? Just about every major city and state is affected but you haven’t heard? Wow. All I can say.

I mean I guess that’s possible cause you say it was no different in previous andministrations and I can’t remember for the life of me free housing and debit cards in either the Trump or Obama or Bush administrations.

I guess we both need to get out more.

Oh good this is data we can track then:

Here we go:

NYC to spend millions on new round of pre-paid debit cards for migrants

New York City Council

council.nyc.gov

The Adams administration says another round of debit cards is expected to be distributed to more than 7,300 migrants over the next six months, costing the city about $2.6 million. The move represents a major expansion of a pilot program that began earlier this year that doled out cards to about 3,000 migrants.

Incase anyone missed, this is TampaJoe's flood of immigrants:

7,300

 

[TampaJoe]

This is one of the things that I found so frustrating about criticisms of Harris -- "we just don't know enough about her policies". It was maddening, and disingenuous. She had policy proposals. Trump had "concepts of a plan".

I didn’t vote for Trump. Comparing her to Trump doesn’t mean she had good proposals or a good plan. It’s either a good policy or a bad policy on its own merit.

 

[MT15]

We aren’t talking about folks who have lived here and worked here legally for years.

Yes we absolutely are. A lot of the Haitians in Springfield and other such towns arrived in 2017-2019. You can look it up. They will absolutely deport people who have lived and worked here legally for years.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

This is one of the things that I found so frustrating about criticisms of Harris -- "we just don't know enough about her policies". It was maddening, and disingenuous. She had policy proposals. Trump had "concepts of a plan".

Its the problem with people informed strictly by closed ecosystem podcasts and Internet. They only hear what a very limited number of equally uninformed people want them to hear. Its why I fall out laughing when people want to hear more “normal folks like them” talking about these subjects.

I don't want people like me that make me feel better about my limited knowledge, I want people smarter than me that can expand my knowledge. A big part of Trumps appeal, podcast culture, and Internet “do your own research” is people who are super insecure about their lack of knowledge wanting to hear people talk that are equally uninformed.

American politics is driven almost entirely by the intellectual insecurity of Americans.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I didn’t vote for Trump. Comparing her to Trump doesn’t mean she had good proposals or a good plan. It’s either a good policy or a bad policy on its own merit.

Right, and I disagree with several of her proposals. HOWEVER, you're going to get one of the two, so I think making a comparison and going for the one that I think will do better is a logical choice. Just walking away and say they both suck is a bet that you won't be affected and that the economy won't be significantly worse.

Just the massive expansion of the debt should be a concern. Yes, Harris' plan will continue the expansion of the debt, which is bad... but Trump's plan will be significantly worse on that front. And that will have an effect on future budgets. So, would I prefer a plan that presents a balanced budget in the near future over either of the two proposals. Absolutely. I didn't get that. But I did get presented two plans and one is vastly superior on that front.

 

[MT15]

American politics is driven almost entirely by the intellectual insecurity of Americans.

And, if you do get higher education, one of the more lasting things it teaches you is humility about your own knowledge. At least it did for me.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Right, and I disagree with several of her proposals. HOWEVER, you're going to get one of the two, so I think making a comparison and going for the one that I think will do better is a logical choice. Just walking away and say they both suck is a bet that you won't be affected and that the economy won't be significantly worse.

Just the massive expansion of the debt should be a concern. Yes, Harris' plan will continue the expansion of the debt, which is bad... but Trump's plan will be significantly worse on that front. And that will have an effect on future budgets. So, would I prefer a plan that presents a balanced budget in the near future over either of the two proposals. Absolutely. I didn't get that. But I did get presented two plans and one is vastly superior on that front.

Imagine how much better off we’d be of we were having debates about the policies instead of debates about misinformation about if the policies even exist?

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Imagine how much better off we’d be of we were having debates about the policies instead of debates about misinformation about if the policies even exist?

Yes, and debate about the actual policy positions and not whatever misrepresentation social media/infotainment personality decides to feed people.

 

[faceman]

No, not the mere presence of a Y chromosome. Your body has to go through puberty as a male to see the results. If you do not experience puberty as a male, your body won’t be statistically different than a biological female. With hormonal supplements, your body will be indistinguishable from a biological female.

So that’s the entire argument. People like Poppy want to exclude all trans people from sports, even if they have never gone through puberty, and thus have zero biological advantage. Even though people try to explain, they don’t care. Because of propaganda from the right. So yay, let’s punish trans people, for reasons.

Also, even with full natural puberty, I think the overlap on strength and muscle development isn’t as stark as you put it. I don’t believe just any man is bigger, stronger, faster than 95% of females. There’s a lot more overlap than that.

agreed, I also said I'm not going to beat a female sprinter in an olympic race.

It's the same with most species. Lions are dependent on female hunters. The Male is only needed to eliminate threats.

 

[TampaJoe]

Right, and I disagree with several of her proposals. HOWEVER, you're going to get one of the two, so I think making a comparison and going for the one that I think will do better is a logical choice. Just walking away and say they both suck is a bet that you won't be affected and that the economy won't be significantly worse.

Just the massive expansion of the debt should be a concern. Yes, Harris' plan will continue the expansion of the debt, which is bad... but Trump's plan will be significantly worse on that front. And that will have an effect on future budgets. So, would I prefer a plan that presents a balanced budget in the near future over either of the two proposals. Absolutely. I didn't get that. But I did get presented two plans and one is vastly superior on that front.

I get it Jim. I do. I guess I’m tired of grading on a curve. Especially when it comes to the highest office in the land. The Leader of the Free World. And we are grading on a curve.

Asking for the best and accepting a lot less. But I get and understand your point. I’m not saying you are wrong. You are right. I just don’t have to like it and I don’t have to go along.

I’m not gonna support anyone I don’t think is good for the country. So I didn’t vote for either candidate. I want gonna be part of somebody’s 50.1 percent “mandate” when I don’t support them and am only voting for them because they are “marginally” better than the other guy. It doesn’t work for me. I would rather not vote at all.

So it’s a personal decision. I don’t care who folks vote for. People can decide for themselves. Who am I to give advice. I enjoy the policy discussions. Always something to learn and always interesting to hear the other point of view.