General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (1 Viewer)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[MT15]

I already said how its determined. Male vs Male. Female vs Female. Cut and dry. Why is this hard to understand? In competitive sports, there is no gray area. The issue of sports participation is all I am speaking of. And it ain't complicated. You can make it complicated if you choose, but it's not.

We are not choosing to make it complicated - it IS complicated in real life. It is evidently only hard for you to grasp the complicated nature of it. Your simplistic view isn’t going to work in real life.

For example: how do you determine what sex a person is? Chromosomes? Because there are intersex individuals. What do you tell them? In your world, I suppose you would tell them the same thing you tell trans kids - go sit down. You are not allowed to participate in this part of life.

What we are saying is each sport is different. The governing bodies can make the best determination for each sport that will be tailored to that sport. Politicians should in no way be involved and neither should people who have no real knowledge about the situation.

 

[RobF]

Won’t argue that.

I do doubt that it will become more than just an occasional issue. There simply is not and, imo, won’t be a lot of trans athletes. The reason it is hot button now is that it is new. New can be frightening.

It isn't new though.

E.g. trans women have been able to compete in tennis since the 70s. Here's some letters to the NY Times about it from 1976:

Renee Richards Controversy: What Is a Woman? (Published 1976)

www.nytimes.com

Every aspect of the current debate is there, from simple acceptance, to "perhaps there should now be three categories for athletic competitions," to "Women's sports will be taken over by a giant race of surgically created women."

Of course, it is notable that in the nearly fifty years since then, women's sports has not, in fact, been taken over by a giant race of surgically created women. Or even had one giant surgically created woman that other women couldn't beat for that matter. It would be nice to think that fact in itself would put the current rhetoric in its place, but people can always come up with reasons why, no, this time the giant race of surgically created women will surely show up to take over women's sports.

And even if they did, somehow, show up, sports' governing bodies are inclined to pass restrictions on the basis of a handful of transgender athletes who occasionally, but not consistently, win, and on the premise of a notional aggregate competitive advantage, so the notion that they'd all sit by while a hypothetical giant race of surgically created women actually showed up and won everything isn't even remotely plausible. There never was, and is not, any threat to women's sports.

So the reason it's a hot button issue now isn't because it's new, it's because it's been manufactured into being one.

 

[Sendai]

Nobody gives the ACLU the power to put out surveys. They can put out whatever survey they want.

No, it wasn’t the economy. It was stupidity about the economy due to, sorry, but it is true, perception. And it most certainly was racism, misogyny and laziness (laziness is always a big factor in elections in this country).

The cost of groceries to your average income family isn’t perception. It’s real.

 

[fooferdoggie]

The cost of groceries to your average income family isn’t perception. It’s real.

well its going to get even more real.

 

[coldseat]

When it comes to this subject, I will call it what it is. I'm sorry. If people feel like its necessary to transition to the opposite sex, that's fine. Absolutely no issue with this. But when your decisions affect other people's dreams and aspirations, then i have a problem.

This is the biggest bullshirt line of reasoning that I've ever heard on this issue. I even set the sports question aside for you and and said "have whatever opinion you want on that issue", but you had to come back with this BS response. Let me ask you, do you show the same level of vile and hate at Republican politicians whose decisions all across this country on abortion are not only affecting women's dreams and aspirations, but are actually severely injuring them and killing them? Mabe redirect some of that anger at a more worthy target than at some kid who's just trying to find their place in this world.

If you are a man that has transitioned to a woman, at least have the decency to stay in your lane and not affect cis women's lives.

Decency? So their freedom is dependent on not affecting your life (which they aren't).

I will call you a girl, or whatever name you want to be called. But don't ask me to dismiss your true gender. Woman have worked to hard to get where they are today, and Im shocked more women don't speak out on this. There are a few that do, but most are silenced. You may call me transphobic, but that is not the case.

Women are not silenced on this issue. Most just don't have the same extreme opinion that you do on trans women and see the Republicans fear mongering for what it is. That is why it is right wing men, not women overall, that get the most pissed off about this (and apparently you). For all the "effects" that trans women athletes are having on cis women's lives, you can only name one trans women athlete (Lea Thomas). Tell me, who's dreams and aspirations is Lea Thomas destroying today?

I am for the freedom of all humans to live their lives as they see fit. I know this sounds cruel, but, it is what it is.

No you are not. And it is cruel. Your problem is that you do not have even the slightest empathy for trans people to see that they aren't trying to destroy or affect other women (I guess none of this applies to trans men) lives. They're not trying to take advantage of cis women just to compete in sports. They just want to live with dignity and have the same opportunities that others do without being treated as vile defects of our society. And a very small percentage (that have no impact on the overall landscape of women's sports) want to play sports.

You don't have to be a rara supporter of tans woman, they and their allies can do that themselves. But maybe just put things in proper context and have an ounce of empathy for them. I don't know why that is so much to ask of all Americans for all people in this country.

 

[bird]

The cost of groceries to your average income family isn’t perception. It’s real.

The perception is that Biden caused it. The perception is based upon stupidity. Trump can do nothing about it.

The only thing that can change it is a massive intervention into the political economy.

So, I guess you support price freezes. I guess that you support caps on gross margin % as well as generally telling business, particularly the entire food production/distribution process how much they can charge. Because the actual reality is that people complaining about food prices don’t want the system changed at all.

 

[bird]

It isn't new though.

E.g. trans women have been able to compete in tennis since the 70s. Here's some letters to the NY Times about it from 1976:

Renee Richards Controversy: What Is a Woman? (Published 1976)

www.nytimes.com

Every aspect of the current debate is there, from simple acceptance, to "perhaps there should now be three categories for athletic competitions," to "Women's sports will be taken over by a giant race of surgically created women."

Of course, it is notable that in the nearly fifty years since then, women's sports has not, in fact, been taken over by a giant race of surgically created women. Or even had one giant surgically created woman that other women couldn't beat for that matter. It would be nice to think that fact in itself would put the current rhetoric in its place, but people can always come up with reasons why, no, this time the giant race of surgically created women will surely show up to take over women's sports.

And even if they did, somehow, show up, sports' governing bodies are inclined to pass restrictions on the basis of a handful of transgender athletes who occasionally, but not consistently, win, and on the premise of a notional aggregate competitive advantage, so the notion that they'd all sit by while a hypothetical giant race of surgically created women actually showed up and won everything isn't even remotely plausible. There never was, and is not, any threat to women's sports.

So the reason it's a hot button issue now isn't because it's new, it's because it's been manufactured into being one.

I won’t argue that.

That being said it is relatively new in the political process from the standpoint of being a red meat distraction/deflection from reality. Apparently everything old is new again when it comes to an electorate with the attention span of a gnat with ADHD and the critical reasoning skills of roadkill.

 

[Poppy]

This is the biggest bullshirt line of reasoning that I've ever heard on this issue. I even set the sports question aside for you and and said "have whatever opinion you want on that issue", but you had to come back with this BS response. Let me ask you, do you show the same level of vile and hate at Republican politicians whose decisions all across this country on abortion are not only affecting women's dreams and aspirations, but are actually severely injuring them and killing them? Mabe redirect some of that anger at a more worthy target than at some kid who's just trying to find their place in this world.



Decency? So their freedom is dependent on not affecting your life (which they aren't).



Women are not silenced on this issue. Most just don't have the same extreme opinion that you do on trans women and see the Republicans fear mongering for what it is. That is why it is right wing men, not women overall, that get the most pissed off about this (and apparently you). For all the "effects" that trans women athletes are having on cis women's lives, you can only name one trans women athlete (Lea Thomas). Tell me, who's dreams and aspirations is Lea Thomas destroying today?



No you are not. And it is cruel. Your problem is that you do not have even the slightest empathy for trans people to see that they aren't trying to destroy or affect other women (I guess none of this applies to trans men) lives. They're not trying to take advantage of cis women just to compete in sports. They just want to live with dignity and have the same opportunities that others do without being treated as vile defects of our society. And a very small percentage (that have no impact on the overall landscape of women's sports) want to play sports.

You don't have to be a rara supporter of tans woman, they and their allies can do that themselves. But maybe just put things in proper context and have an ounce of empathy for them. I don't know why that is so much to ask of all Americans for all people in this country.

You're wrong with empathy for trans people. I do feel for someone, that feels they aren't in the right body. I have complete compassion for everyone that has any type of mental issue because I myself have had issues, and close family. My issue is with trans in athletics. Not the trans community. Like i said, i work with two trans people, and I love them like family. Im side by side with them everyday. I have asked them about it, and they have said its a very slippery slope. So, this is not being against trans people. But im not bending on a transwoman competing against women. It's wrong.

Ill tell you whose dreams Lia THomas ruined. Every young woman she beat in the NCAA.

Trans swimmer Lia Thomas' Olympic hopes are dashed after a losing legal battle

Thomas made history in 2022, becoming the first transgender woman to win an NCAA swimming championship.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Sendai]

The perception is that Biden caused it. The perception is based upon stupidity. Trump can do nothing about it.

The only thing that can change it is a massive intervention into the political economy.

So, I guess you support price freezes. I guess that you support caps on gross margin % as well as generally telling business, particularly the entire food production/distribution process how much they can charge. Because the actual reality is that people complaining about food prices don’t want the system changed at all.

I didn’t suggest any such thing.

 

[J-DONK]

Nobody gives the ACLU the power to put out surveys. They can put out whatever survey they want.

No, it wasn’t the economy. It was stupidity about the economy due to, sorry, but it is true, perception. And it most certainly was racism, misogyny and laziness (laziness is always a big factor in elections in this country).

These special interest groups do have a lot of power. That much is clear.

You can't blame electorate when trying to find out why you lost an election.

You have to answer questions like why did 40% of gen z black men vote for Trump?

 

[J-DONK]

You're wrong with empathy for trans people. I do feel for someone, that feels they aren't in the right body. I have complete compassion for everyone that has any type of mental issue because I myself have had issues, and close family. My issue is with trans in athletics. Not the trans community. Like i said, i work with two trans people, and I love them like family. Im side by side with them everyday. I have asked them about it, and they have said its a very slippery slope. So, this is not being against trans people. But im not bending on a transwoman competing against women. It's wrong.

Ill tell you whose dreams Lia THomas ruined. Every young woman she beat in the NCAA.

Trans swimmer Lia Thomas' Olympic hopes are dashed after a losing legal battle

Thomas made history in 2022, becoming the first transgender woman to win an NCAA swimming championship.

www.nbcnews.com

Write a letter to the NCAA then. We are probably already at more replies on this issue then there are college trans athletes.

I would also tell every liberal on the board that anytime a conseratives brings up trans issues, start talking about the numbers. Congrats on making a mountain out of a molehill. I won't be your huckleberry.

I would ask the question. How does anyone care about something this small? For reference, 2,500 kids DIE from guns each year. You could add up every kid on puberty blockers, and college trans athletes multiple it by 2, and it would still be a lower rnumber then kids dying to guns.


Baeth estimates fewer than 40 of the NCAA’s more than 500,000 athletes are known to be transgender.

A college athletics association banned transgender women from women’s sports. Now all eyes are on the NCAA | CNN

The NCAA has faced a flood of calls to restrict the participation of trans students after a much smaller athletics association voted to effectively ban trans women from competing in most of its women’s sports programs.

www.cnn.com

 

[coldseat]

You're wrong with empathy for trans people. I do feel for someone, that feels they aren't in the right body. I have complete compassion for everyone that has any type of mental issue because I myself have had issues, and close family.

Being trans isn't a mental issue. It's a physiological issue. And we have medical interventions that Republicans are trying to outlaw the help them with these issues.

My issue is with trans in athletics. Not the trans community. Like i said, i work with two trans people, and I love them like family. Im side by side with them everyday. I have asked them about it, and they have said its a very slippery slope. So, this is not being against trans people. But im not bending on a transwoman competing against women. It's wrong.

That's not what your words are saying. Why is it a very slippery slope? I doubt they actually said that.

Ill tell you whose dreams Lia THomas ruined. Every young woman she beat in the NCAA.

Trans swimmer Lia Thomas' Olympic hopes are dashed after a losing legal battle

Thomas made history in 2022, becoming the first transgender woman to win an NCAA swimming championship.

www.nbcnews.com

That's laughable. That woman has made more money off of attacking Lia Thomas and has a higher profile because of it than she ever would have had without Lia Thomas. She should be sending Lia Thomas checks for the millions she's likely made from attacking her. She's a darling among the right and has made a career off of attacking tans women athlete. Her life wasn't ruined from not getting one trophy. Anybody else, or is that your only example?

 

[faceman]

You have to answer questions like why did 40% of gen z black men vote for Trump?

There were several polls before the election showing most young men were vulnerable to Trumps charm.
I fell for it with Reagan twice. It's why I started believing this won't be a Harris landslide.

Young men tend to vote for someone they feel are more macho. Trump has won against 2 women
and lost to one man. Republicans have figured it out. Democrats have not

 

[SamAndreas]

My endocrinology knowledge is fairly poor because my position truly hasn’t required a vast knowledge on this subject. It was studied many years ago. But when it comes to competitive sports, I don’t care how your endocrine system is functioning, it’s totally irrelevant to me. How was Lia Thomas’ endocrine system functioning when she decided that she was gonna start competing against women? Was it even an issue?? I believe there was a female boxer this past year in the Olympics that there was some controversy around. She was born a female, had all the female parts, but may have had some manly features and I believe her hormone levels were in question. She may have even injured another female boxer pretty badly if i remember right. But, she was a female, and had lost to other females in the past. What I’m saying, is there are no other option other than to make this cut and dry. The boxer had a natural advantage over other females. Is she to be made to fight against men?? I think this subject bothers me because my daughter played competitive tennis, and I can’t imagine some boy claiming to be a girl having to compete against my daughter. And I can’t imagine the disgust of these swimmers who had to compete against Lia Thomas.

I don't understand why or when this sports issue got started. For a political party to promote it as a part of their plank would be a lonely hill to die upon. A real waterloo.

Go with bathroom issue, I'm all for that, go with transitions after the age of 18, or for my comfort say after the age of 20. I'm on board for the most of it, but these two singular issues about it appeared to me to be going too far.

What's the positions with regard to the Democratic plank? I generally ignore that plank. It's been several years since I last looked at it.

If these select issues are in the plank, *we* need to carve them out of there if we want to ever have the power to do anything about anything again.

 

[bird]

These special interest groups do have a lot of power. That much is clear.

You can't blame electorate when trying to find out why you lost an election.

You have to answer questions like why did 40% of gen z black men vote for Trump?

Yes, you most certainly can blame the electorate. THEY did the voting.

Yes, I do agree that you have to find out the why of their voting. We do know that, once again, too damn many people didn’t vote at all.

As for the ACLU having power? I doubt that there is a very high percentage of voters that vote based upon supporting what the ACLU supports. In point of opinion, the RW uses agitprop to push voting against supporting rights by demonizing the ACLU.

 

[TampaJoe]

Yes, you most certainly can blame the electorate. THEY did the voting.

Yes, I do agree that you have to find out the why of their voting. We do know that, once again, too damn many people didn’t vote at all.

As for the ACLU having power? I doubt that there is a very high percentage of voters that vote based upon supporting what the ACLU supports. In point of opinion, the RW uses agitprop to push voting against supporting rights by demonizing the ACLU.

Blame the electorate for what? Not agreeing? Forgive me but I don’t see this as a good strategy.

Politics is about marketing ideas. It’s about the candidate and the party and messaging and policy. Obviously that didn’t work for the Democrats this last cycle. I don’t know that is the fault of the electorate.

Better candidates, better policy, better messaging. Actually listening to the electorate and addressing their concerns instead of insulting their intelligence and telling them what THEY think.

We need better candidates from BOTH parties. Better choices. That has not happened in a while. Maybe, Hopefully next time it will. It would be nice to be able to vote FOR something instead of AGAINST the other candidate.

 

[Sharon]

Blame the electorate for what? Not agreeing? Forgive me but I don’t see this as a good strategy.

Politics is about marketing ideas. It’s about the candidate and the party and messaging and policy. Obviously that didn’t work for the Democrats this last cycle. I don’t know that is the fault of the electorate.

Better candidates, better policy, better messaging. Actually listening to the electorate and addressing their concerns instead of insulting their intelligence and telling them what THEY think.

We need better candidates from BOTH parties. Better choices. That has not happened in a while. Maybe, Hopefully next time it will. It would be nice to be able to vote FOR something instead of AGAINST the other candidate.

I absolutely disagree with this. Elections no longer have to do with policy or candidates. We've had plenty of elections with competent public servants as candidates on both sides, who still either lost or won because of the hot buttons campaigns were able to push in order to influence voters. Now many live in a news-free or news-questionable world where they are even more susceptible to these OMG messages. There is no logic, just emotion. And those plugged in to social media who are only hearing one message, repeatedly....what do you expect?

For starters, if we were really serious, we would only vote for serious people, or at least the most serious out of the bunch. Instead, we reward outrageousness. Too many treat it like entertainment instead of the job interview it's supposed to be.

 

[TampaJoe]

I absolutely disagree with this. Elections no longer have to do with policy or candidates. We've had plenty of elections with competent public servants as candidates on both sides, who still either lost or won because of the hot buttons campaigns were able to push in order to influence voters. Now many live in a news-free or news-questionable world where they are even more susceptible to these OMG messages. There is no logic, just emotion. And those plugged in to social media who are only hearing one message, repeatedly....what do you expect?

For starters, if we were really serious, we would only vote for serious people, or at least the most serious out of the bunch. Instead, we reward outrageousness. Too many treat it like entertainment instead of the job interview it's supposed to be.

Is that the fault of the electorate? Think you are going to get anywhere with those folks blaming them?

I don’t think so. It’s easy to blame other people for a loss. Blame the refs. Blame the other team. Whatever.

Part of politics is also motivating people to get out and vote for a particular candidate or party. In order to do that you need to listen first and then reach out and communicate with people where they are using means of communication they use.

That’s just my opinion. And I’m no expert. To me the dialogue is good. We should be talking about the issues and the policy. It should not be a war but a conversation. We can’t keep demonizing the other party simply because they have a different point of view. It’s not sustainable.