General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (5 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[Optimus Prime]

……Trump’s strongman image inflated every time he beat the process. Whenever he delayed justice his legend grew. Every time he should have been subject to the law and wasn’t, he appeared too big to fall.

The inability to bring him to trial made the system seem weak and suspect. The law was anemic; he was indestructible. No man was above the law – with one exception.

Without the presentation of the evidence in a courtroom setting and the verdict of a jury, he was able to sow doubt with the public about the charges and present himself as a political martyr. He played to the galleries he assembled, not juries empaneled under the law.

Despite Trump’s incessant motions and filings to delay and distract in his court cases, he did not hold back the wheels of justice all by himself. He alone could not fix it.

For Trump to succeed, justice had to fail. It did not fail passively. He was rescued from judgment by four people, acting sequentially on wholly different motives, but leading to the same conclusion of letting the culprit run loose. Without his enablers, Trump would not have been protected.

He confounded, thwarted and escaped the law because of the perverse decisions of the Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell, the attorney general Merrick Garland, the chief Justice John Roberts and the US district court judge Aileen Cannon.

None of the four had a more sustained personal relationship with Trump than McConnell. From his proximity he came to regard him as a “despicable human being”, “stupid as well as being ill-tempered”, with “complete unfitness for office”, as he told an oral historian, according to his authorized biographer, Michael Tackett, in The Price of Power.

McConnell stated that Trump’s defeat in 2020 “only underscores the good judgment of the American people. They’ve just had enough of the misrepresentations, the outright lies almost on a daily basis, and they fired him. And for a narcissist like him, that’s been really hard to take.”

After Trump was impeached for the insurrection on January 6, McConnell wavered on voting guilty. If Trump were to be found guilty, he could never again run for federal office. McConnell fell back on his political instinct that Trump was utterly discredited, though there was a risk that he might support Maga candidates to primary Republican senators who voted guilty as revenge.

Before the vote on 13 February 2021, McConnell declaredTrump “practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of that day”, but sidestepped convicting him by asserting that the penalty could not be applied because Trump was no longer president.

McConnell pointed out that Trump would be held accountable in criminal trials. “But this just underscores that impeachment was never meant to be the final forum for American justice,” he said…..

Garland was punctilious in his belief that pursuing Trump reflected a partisan impulse. “The Justice Department’s painstaking approach to investigating Trump can be traced to Garland’s desire to turn the page from missteps, bruising attacks and allegations of partisanship,” the Washington Post later reported.

“Inside Justice, however, some lawyers have complained that the attorney general’s determination to steer clear of any claims of political motive has chilled efforts to investigate the former president. ‘You couldn’t use the T word,’ said one former Justice official briefed on prosecutors’ discussions.”

Garland’s hero-worship of Levi was historically misplaced as a guide to his own role. Levi presided after the Watergate affair was wrapped up. But events had not cast Garland as Levi but potentially to be Judge John Sirica, who broke the conspiracy open.

Garland’s prosecution of the mob that attacked the Capitol was based on the theory of working from the bottom up. Those down the chain would then provide evidence against the crime boss.

But Garland operated on the wrong theory of the case. He suffered a failure of imagination, unable to grasp he was dealing with an attempted coup, not merely a destructive riot. The evidence of the coup was clearly before him.

Trump’s fake elector scheme to prevent certification of the election occurred in plain sight in real time as it was happening. Trump’s tape of pressuring Georgia election officials to forge ballots was publicly revealed three days before January 6.

In the sort of probe that Garland was conducting it might take months, if not years, for a low-level mafioso to wear a wire that might produce such incriminating evidence. Garland vowed to go after “all January 6th perpetrators, at any level”, but as he racked up hundreds of cases against the Capitol mob he shied away from acting against the kingpin……….

In the documents case, the US district court judge Aileen Cannon ruled again and again to Trump’s advantage. She is a thoroughly processed product of the Federalist Society transmission belt, from law school to the federal bench. Cannon was on the Federalist Society list when Trump ticked her off for appointment. She is, as the Communists used to say, a reliable.

In decision after decision, Cannon’s reasoning was murky, her logic twisted and her rulings tilted. She denied Smith’s request for a December 2023 trial date, moving it to 20 May 2024 after the Republican primaries.

After seemingly endless motions in which she created every obstacle for delay, on 15 July, the first day of the Republican national convention, she dismissed the entire case on the absurd notion that the justice department had no authority to appoint a special counsel “threatening the structural liberty inherent in the separation of powers”.

That exact argument had been signaled in Justice Clarence Thomas’s opinion in the presidential immunity case issued two weeks earlier.…….

Trump ducked criminal charges – right into the most powerful office in the world | Sidney Blumenthal

In evading legal consequences for his actions, Trump was handed a chillingly simple strategy: just run for president again

www.theguardian.com

 

[Huntn]

In the 2024 election, women turned out for Kamala Harris, while men were instrumentalin securing Donald Trump’s win, according to early polling information. In some cases, those women and men were married to each other or otherwise romantically involved. In other relationships, it was the men who voted for Harris, while their female partners voted for Trump.

Here, Americans who voted differently from their partners shared with the Guardian how such partisan views have affected their relationship, what it was like to “cancel out” a loved one’s vote, and why some kept their votes secret. Some requested to keep their identities anonymous to discuss personal matters.

‘The only thing keeping me in this marriage is my teenagers’​

I’m voting for Harris, and I fight about it often with my husband. I’m disgusted with him for how he has changed from the man I married to supporting a candidate who is anti-everything in our personal lives.

We have a trans child, a female child, a disabled child, mixed-race grandchildren, all of whom are hated by the Maga party. I’ve always been an independent feminist who bases beliefs on logic, facts and empathy.

Living with a person who can’t admit to being wrong when facts are presented and no longer supports independent women is its own sort of hell. The only thing keeping me in this marriage is my teenagers.

Thankfully, they’re juniors in high school, so I only have one and a half years to be stuck in it.

Anonymous, caretaker, indie author and editor, 47, Illinois

‘I hate lying to her, but it’s for the best’​

I’ve been dating my girlfriend for 10 months. We met through a mutual friend at her church, and got along instantly. I love her to death. We celebrated Halloween and dressed up as ghosts.

I secretly voted for Kamala Harris. I told my girlfriend that I wasn’t voting, and she doesn’t doubt it. She once said that Trump is America’s last hope, and that he is God’s chosen candidate.

It was horrifying. I was internally screaming “WTF”. She has also said that the allegations against him are all lies; part of a “secret plot” to destroy him.

But I wasn’t ready to talk about it. I feel dishonest. I hate lying, but it’s for the best. I’d hate to see her go insane over my vote, but I know she would. Not only that, but her father would disapprove of our relationship if he knew. He would disapprove of her just for dating me. I can’t risk that, ever.

Anonymous, computer science student, 22,Joplin, MO…….

‘I hate lying to her’: US couples on voting against their partners’ candidates

Americans recount political clashes inside the home and how they get past it – or don’t

www.theguardian.com

At this point an argument could be made regarding the validity of a Themyscira Society.

 

[Poppy]

Ive been reading this board for some time. And I'll just throw my 2 cents in on to why I think Harris didn't win this election. And actually, in retrospect, IMO, she never had a slight chance.
Now, I see this boards posters, seem to be 90% left leaning. So i know my opinions will get reamed, and that's ok. But this is why, to me, why she lost so big. I lean to the right without a doubt with my politics, but I am not some conspiracy theorist or anything like that.

1. There was a viral video of her on the view. She was asked if she would have done anything different than what Biden had done. Her answer was, No.
2. Men, competing in women's sports.
3. The economy was #1. If people just walked into the voting booth, and asked themselves, "Am i better off now than I was 4 years ago?" For most people, the answer is no.
4. Moral superiority from the left.
5. Constantly calling Trump a fascist, a racist, a nazi.
6. Constantly saying democracy will be lost if Trump is elected.
7. Immigration. Providing benefits to illegals. Harris was supposed to have a heavy hand in immigration.
5. Calling Trump voters and supporters racists, bigots, sexists and deplorable people. I was watching MSNBC after the election, and someone said, only uneducated white women voted for Trump.
6. The only thing i ever heard Harris say was "We need to move towards the future, because the future is tomorrow, and tomorrow becomes the future. And we need you to move forward'. I really never heard her give any detailed plan for anything. Except, lets move forward. Vote for decency. Im nicer than him.
7. Most people just want to live, work, support their families. These social issues go to the wayside, when you have trouble paying your bills.
8. She wasn't a good candidate. When she ran in the primaries in 2020, she was the least favorable option, per her own party.

These are just a few that pop into my mind. I Don't vote hardline republican. I voted for CLinton his second term, I voted Obama 2nd term, Jonh Bel Edwards for governor, Mary Landrieu, and a few more. I said that just in case, you might think I was hardline right.

 

[Huntn]

Hey Sam,

Been a while. It’s Joe from RFL. Sorry things didn’t go your way. I remember you thought a lot about Harris.

Elections come around every two years. The country and Democracy will survive.

Remains to be seen. Fascism dismantles democratic institutions, the key to finishing democracy in the US will be undermining election boards,

 

[TampaJoe]

Several states are prosecuting the fake electors - they have been indicted. Our justice system is way too ponderous and slow, but it is proceeding. Several of Trump’s lawyers have either been disbarred, fined or disciplined. Some are also under indictment.

I don’t see how anyone can honestly make the case that the attempt to overturn the 2020 election didn’t go beyond legality.

Jack Smith will be releasing all his evidence, both from the Jan 6 and the documents case. Trump acted criminally in both. The only reason he is escaping justice is that he won the election. He rightly deserves to be in jail.

Perhaps. But as you pointed out, he won the election. So the voters have spoken. I dont know about you but I am tired of all this legal back and forth. The nations business needs to get done.

 

[Huntn]

What we are seeing is the collapse of two somewhat in opposition political economic philosophies in, particularly the West.

The first is the collapse of neoliberalism and the so-called free market and the free trade of globalization. This collapse is moving somewhat in slow motion depending upon where you look. The second is more rapidly moving and that is the collapse of liberalism.

For decades the assumption is that people want democracy because they want freedom. This is false. People want freedom for themselves and those that are in their group. They, most assuredly, do not want freedom for those outside their group. Globalization and neoliberalism in economics run counter to the “freedom for me but not for thee” tribalism. While globalization and neoliberalism do not mean an opposition to such a stance they do mean that non-tribe people can potentially achieve something which tribalism deems should be reserved for the tribe.

Every problem facing the West and, indeed, much of the world must be looked at through the lenses of psychology and sociology. How do groups organize themselves and why do they organize in those ways. Nothing else is as important as this. Charlatans such as Trump, Orban, Putin et al all use the tools of tribal grievance.

No country is exempt from this. We note that Scandinavian countries are having immigration issues. It very well maybe that a large state/population democracy cannot survive without real maturation if it is not a homogeneous population.

Indeed, the United States has never been “United” except for few occasions.

Agree 100%. Those that scream ‘Liberty!’ the loudest only want and mean their liberty. A great example are the Christians screaming about religious freedom, which is not religious freedom, but their freedom to shove their theocratic beliefs down everyone’s throats.

The problem in the US are the sheep who chose a wolf to look out for their best interests, while his game plan is keeping them fool’d long enough to unwittingly be served up for dinner.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Perhaps. But as you pointed out, he won the election. So the voters have spoken. I dont know about you but I am tired of all this legal back and forth. The nations business needs to get done.

I think you mean Trump's business cause that's all that matters to him.

 

[bird]

Ive been reading this board for some time. And I'll just throw my 2 cents in on to why I think Harris didn't win this election. And actually, in retrospect, IMO, she never had a slight chance.
Now, I see this boards posters, seem to be 90% left leaning. So i know my opinions will get reamed, and that's ok. But this is why, to me, why she lost so big. I lean to the right without a doubt with my politics, but I am not some conspiracy theorist or anything like that.

1. There was a viral video of her on the view. She was asked if she would have done anything different than what Biden had done. Her answer was, No.
2. Men, competing in women's sports.
3. The economy was #1. If people just walked into the voting booth, and asked themselves, "Am i better off now than I was 4 years ago?" For most people, the answer is no.
4. Moral superiority from the left.
5. Constantly calling Trump a fascist, a racist, a nazi.
6. Constantly saying democracy will be lost if Trump is elected.
7. Immigration. Providing benefits to illegals. Harris was supposed to have a heavy hand in immigration.
5. Calling Trump voters and supporters racists, bigots, sexists and deplorable people. I was watching MSNBC after the election, and someone said, only uneducated white women voted for Trump.
6. The only thing i ever heard Harris say was "We need to move towards the future, because the future is tomorrow, and tomorrow becomes the future. And we need you to move forward'. I really never heard her give any detailed plan for anything. Except, lets move forward. Vote for decency. Im nicer than him.
7. Most people just want to live, work, support their families. These social issues go to the wayside, when you have trouble paying your bills.
8. She wasn't a good candidate. When she ran in the primaries in 2020, she was the least favorable option, per her own party.

These are just a few that pop into my mind. I Don't vote hardline republican. I voted for CLinton his second term, I voted Obama 2nd term, Jonh Bel Edwards for governor, Mary Landrieu, and a few more. I said that just in case, you might think I was hardline right.

1. Please explain what Biden did that was an issue
2. I notice this is the second thing you listed. Please explain the process for transitioning pre- and post-puberty and its impact on the body.
3. The economy is a deflection. Most people understand little regarding inflation and the methods used to calculate the rate of inflation. When tariffs hit they will get a taste.
4. Generally, moral superiority flows form both sides. See abortion as an example. Trump utilizes Nazi verbiage. He was involved in lawsuits over refusal to rent to Blacks. His ad regarding the Central Park 5. He wants the guys with the “little hats” handling money issues for him. He is anti-Semitic and anti-Muslim. Finally, the America First bleating arises directly from the politics of the ‘30’s in support of Nazism.
5. See above.
6. Far more complex. His actions and words regarding the media, his words prior to the election regarding the fairness of the election, his words regarding the election of 2020 being “stollen”, his stating that parts of the constitution should be voided etc all have the result of undermining confidence in the system. Confidence in institutions including media is critical for the health and future of democracy. Democracy isn’t just voting.
7. Then you didn’t listen. She laid out ideas on multiple occasions. Housing is one such example. Trump bleated tariffs while having no understanding of them just like his bleat about Mexico paying for the wall. If social issues aren’t important then why did you bring up trans? Social issues are a deflection to keep the base from investigating his alleged economic policies.
8. Meh, subjective. Trump is a mentally declining person who went on about Hannibal Lector. He was a lousy candidate but he and his handlers knew how to tap into white grievance.

I really don’t care about your justification. Past actions are meaningless in the light of the recent election.

Btw, yes, he is an anti-Semite. His support of Israel is like that of the so-Called Christian right. They love themselves some Israel but don’t really give a schlitz about Jews. Look into Dara Horn’s People Love Dead Jews for some insight.

 

[Optimus Prime]

4. Moral superiority from the left.
5. Constantly calling Trump a fascist, a racist, a nazi.
5. Calling Trump voters and supporters racists, bigots, sexists and deplorable people. I was watching MSNBC after the election, and someone said, only uneducated white women voted for Trump.

Wonder who they voted for?
===================

A group of demonstrators carried Nazi flags as they appeared Saturday night outside Fowlerville Community Theater's performance of "The Diary of Anne" Frank at an American Legion post in Livingston County, Michigan.

According to a video recorded by Bobby Brite, a past commander of the American Legion Devereaux Post 141, there were about ten demonstrators present outside the venue for about 30 minutes during the performance.

According to Brite, they even chanted "Anne Frank was a whore," referring to the eponymous young Jewish girl who is at the center of the production. The play records the harrowing experiences of her and her family during the Holocaust...........

Demonstrators with Nazi flags appear at performance of 'The Diary of Anne Frank'

Demonstrators made derogatory comments about Anne Frank who was 15 when she died in a concentration camp in 1945.

www.the-express.com

 

[coldseat]

Ive been reading this board for some time. And I'll just throw my 2 cents in on to why I think Harris didn't win this election. And actually, in retrospect, IMO, she never had a slight chance.
Now, I see this boards posters, seem to be 90% left leaning. So i know my opinions will get reamed, and that's ok. But this is why, to me, why she lost so big. I lean to the right without a doubt with my politics, but I am not some conspiracy theorist or anything like that.

1. There was a viral video of her on the view. She was asked if she would have done anything different than what Biden had done. Her answer was, No.
2. Men, competing in women's sports.
3. The economy was #1. If people just walked into the voting booth, and asked themselves, "Am i better off now than I was 4 years ago?" For most people, the answer is no.
4. Moral superiority from the left.
5. Constantly calling Trump a fascist, a racist, a nazi.
6. Constantly saying democracy will be lost if Trump is elected.
7. Immigration. Providing benefits to illegals. Harris was supposed to have a heavy hand in immigration.
5. Calling Trump voters and supporters racists, bigots, sexists and deplorable people. I was watching MSNBC after the election, and someone said, only uneducated white women voted for Trump.
6. The only thing i ever heard Harris say was "We need to move towards the future, because the future is tomorrow, and tomorrow becomes the future. And we need you to move forward'. I really never heard her give any detailed plan for anything. Except, lets move forward. Vote for decency. Im nicer than him.
7. Most people just want to live, work, support their families. These social issues go to the wayside, when you have trouble paying your bills.
8. She wasn't a good candidate. When she ran in the primaries in 2020, she was the least favorable option, per her own party.

These are just a few that pop into my mind. I Don't vote hardline republican. I voted for CLinton his second term, I voted Obama 2nd term, Jonh Bel Edwards for governor, Mary Landrieu, and a few more. I said that just in case, you might think I was hardline right.

Thanks for sharing. That's a good list and about what I would expect, but all it really tells me is that right wing propaganda is extremely effective in our society. Whether a person is invested in it or not. Our electorate and country are truly damaged beyond repair.

 

[J-DONK]

Thanks for sharing. That's a good list and about what I would expect, but all it really tells me is that right wing propaganda is extremely effective in our society. Whether a person is invested in it or not. Our electorate and country are truly damaged beyond repair.

It's amazing that Republicans A. Made trans an issue at all B. Somehow made a NCAA decision an offical DNP position

How dumb do you have to be to think the DNP governs college athletics?

 

[TampaJoe]

I think you mean Trump's business cause that's all that matters to him.

No. I meant the nations business. Im tired of all the partisanship. I have a feeling the vast majority of people are tired of the partisanship. I think thats prt of the reason for wave elections every 2 to 4 years. Maybe our elected representatives could spend a few days a week trying towork together on some shared objectives. Not everything needs to be a fight over “taking our country back” whatever that happens to mean to you.

 

[coldseat]

No. I meant the nations business. Im tired of all the partisanship. I have a feeling the vast majority of people are tired of the partisanship.

That doesn't compute with the election of Trump.

I think thats prt of the reason for wave elections every 2 to 4 years.

That's only making partisanship worse.

Maybe our elected representatives could spend a few days a week trying towork together on some shared objectives. Not everything needs to be a fight over “taking our country back” whatever that happens to mean to you.

With Trump?

Never going to happen.

 

[coldseat]

It's amazing that Republicans A. Made trans an issue at all B. Somehow made a NCAA decision an offical DNP position

How dumb do you have to be to think the DNP governs college athletics?

All because the Democrats showed even the mildest and most milquetoast support for the transgender community. It's not even support, just basic tolerance and acceptance.

I guess in the eyes of the electorate, the Democrats should have demonized and attacked transgendered people the way Republicans do in order to earn their vote.

 

[Poppy]

It's amazing that Republicans A. Made trans an issue at all B. Somehow made a NCAA decision an offical DNP position

How dumb do you have to be to think the DNP governs college athletics?

The position is supported by those on the left.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Perhaps. But as you pointed out, he won the election. So the voters have spoken. I dont know about you but I am tired of all this legal back and forth. The nations business needs to get done.

so you are saying the President is untouchable and should never be held accountable for criminal actions?

 

[TampaJoe]

so you are saying the President is untouchable and should never be held accountable for criminal actions?

Not what I said.

What is it you would like to see done? And with what case?

 

[Huntn]

1. Please explain what Biden did that was an issue
2. I notice this is the second thing you listed. Please explain the process for transitioning pre- and post-puberty and its impact on the body.
3. The economy is a deflection. Most people understand little regarding inflation and the methods used to calculate the rate of inflation. When tariffs hit they will get a taste.
4. Generally, moral superiority flows form both sides. See abortion as an example. Trump utilizes Nazi verbiage. He was involved in lawsuits over refusal to rent to Blacks. His ad regarding the Central Park 5. He wants the guys with the “little hats” handling money issues for him. He is anti-Semitic and anti-Muslim. Finally, the America First bleating arises directly from the politics of the ‘30’s in support of Nazism.
5. See above.
6. Far more complex. His actions and words regarding the media, his words prior to the election regarding the fairness of the election, his words regarding the election of 2020 being “stollen”, his stating that parts of the constitution should be voided etc all have the result of undermining confidence in the system. Confidence in institutions including media is critical for the health and future of democracy. Democracy isn’t just voting.
7. Then you didn’t listen. She laid out ideas on multiple occasions. Housing is one such example. Trump bleated tariffs while having no understanding of them just like his bleat about Mexico paying for the wall. If social issues aren’t important then why did you bring up trans? Social issues are a deflection to keep the base from investigating his alleged economic policies.
8. Meh, subjective. Trump is a mentally declining person who went on about Hannibal Lector. He was a lousy candidate but he and his handlers knew how to tap into white grievance.

I really don’t care about your justification. Past actions are meaningless in the light of the recent election.

Btw, yes, he is an anti-Semite. His support of Israel is like that of the so-Called Christian right. They love themselves some Israel but don’t really give a schlitz about Jews. Look into Dara Horn’s People Love Dead Jews for some insight.

3. The economy is a deflection. Most people understand little regarding inflation and the methods used to calculate the rate of inflation. When tariffs hit they will get a taste.

We can have the best economy in the world, but based on our standard of living a large number struggle. The problem for many of the same large number are apparently being too stupid to know or remember it was under Trump’s watch, his inaction, and mismanagement that set inflation roaring and under The Biden Administration the situation has been corrected but now at higher prices. So through disinformation and because of prejudice, the sheep turned to The Wolf to save them once again. At this point, the more pain, massive pain is required. Bon Appetite.