First presidential debate (4 Viewers)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    No.
    YOU get a scoop!
    In the past I assumed that my state of NJ was in the bag for
    Biden. NJ was a lock for Biden.
    Now many people have seen the Biden that's bee there for awhile...they just didn't know it.
    NOW my vote might actually matter.
    In my mind, Joseph Biden cannot be the Commander and Chief in the Situation room for another 4 years.
    IF Biden does not step down I might vote for Trump.
    That's how strongly I think about how unacceptable Biden is.
    If Biden is removed or voluntarily steps down then I'll return to my pledge to only vote down ballot and not cast a vote for President.
    So Biden....step down or I may feel cornered to vote for a felon and a liar.

    Shocked I tell you....what a buffoon.....you're a disingenuous clown.....
     
    Fundraising update rom DNC chair, Jaime Harrison.


    Good ole @SamAndreas was talking about how Biden threw the debate on purpose. It wouldn't shock me to find out he did, because not much is shocking since 2016.

    I don't think Biden threw it on purpose, but it might be a boon for him. Grassroots usually means lots of small donations from lots of voters. Maybe all this talk about sending grandpa to the nursing home has got people rallying to his defense to say don't you dare.

    What I do know is that people who donate vote. If they're using grassroots in the traditional sense, that's a lot of voting support being shown for Biden after his "too terrible to recover from" debate on Thursday.
     
    He already has the bigots in the bag though while needing to woo black voters to gain more support there.

    I recognize that it's within the realm of possibility that it was a dog whistle or a racist slip of his.. but I think the simplest answer is probably most correct in this situation which is that he's inarticulate and shooting from the hip.

    Jobs that exclusively black people hold isn’t even accurate, though.

    So we have to assume what jobs he’s talking about it. What jobs out there aren’t being done by people of all races?

    He made something about race that didn’t need to be about race. He did so because instinctually that’s how he sees the world.

    Has he bothered to put out a heartfelt apology and explain in actual detail what he meant, and how he plans to help black people in the workforce, since this is (supposedly) a concern of his?

    He could have just said jobs that U.S. citizens could be doing. That doesn’t require any extra intelligence. It also doesn’t draw on the stereotypes rattling around in his head.
     
    Jobs that exclusively black people hold isn’t even accurate, though.

    So we have to assume what jobs he’s talking about it. What jobs out there aren’t being done by people of all races?

    He made something about race that didn’t need to be about race. He did so because instinctually that’s how he sees the world.

    Has he bothered to put out a heartfelt apology and explain in actual detail what he meant, and how he plans to help black people in the workforce, since this is (supposedly) a concern of his?

    He could have just said jobs that U.S. citizens could be doing. That doesn’t require any extra intelligence. It also doesn’t draw on the stereotypes rattling around in his head.
    I understand where you're coming and what you're saying.. just agree to disagree if we can on this one as I think we're venturing into needlessly wasting time and energy on this when we certainly agree regarding the big picture.
     
    Great post, one of the best I've read in a good while.....The ironic thing here is that the supposed "free and fair press" will be neither if Trump regains the presidency.....they are sacrificing short term gains/profits, the good of the country and it's citizens (the majority of those which don't want the country to turn into an alt right fascist Christian nationalist nation) for long term survival.....most of the media today truly sucks.....
    I think they are all under the same delusions that makes every victim of Trump a victim of Trump. They all deluded themselves into thinking, "he won't do anything to me, I'll be okay."

    It's the same mistake every victim of tyrants make.
     
    I understand where you're coming and what you're saying.. just agree to disagree if we can on this one as I think we're venturing into needlessly wasting time and energy on this when we certainly agree regarding the big picture.

    Fair enough. I know your character and respect you. This isn’t about you, just to be clear.
     
    Fair enough. I know your character and respect you. This isn’t about you, just to be clear.
    Likewise with you. You've long been one of my favorite posters going back to other site and I always like to check in when I see you've commented here.
     
    I’m surprised you agree with that.

    I think we are way past any benefit of the doubt that Trump said something but didn’t mean it the way he said it. Sure, he’s not articulate, but there aren’t “black jobs” anymore than there are “white jobs” except to people who see the world that way.

    I’ve seen and heard a lot of backlash about his comment. In the great big soup bowl of vile and stupid stuff Trump says, it might not singularly resonate on the public surface, but I think it reinforced what a lot of people already know about Trump; he’s a racist with an appeal to racists. (Yeah, I actually know some of those admitted racist Trump supporters personally).
    The left always tells us that Trump is racist, but Trump continues to make historic gains with black voters which follows latino voters.

    Why would Trump make historic gains with black and Latino voters if he's such a racist?

     
    Jobs that exclusively black people hold isn’t even accurate, though.
    Where did you get exclusively from?
    So we have to assume what jobs he’s talking about it. What jobs out there aren’t being done by people of all races?
    I think he was just making the point that illegal immigrants are taking some jobs that blacks or hispanics might have.
    He made something about race that didn’t need to be about race. He did so because instinctually that’s how he sees the world.
    Ironicly that's long been the Democrats playbook 101.

    Has he bothered to put out a heartfelt apology and explain in actual detail what he meant, and how he plans to help black people in the workforce, since this is (supposedly) a concern of his?
    Why would he apologize about saying illegal immigrants are taking some jobs that blacks or latinos might have?
    He could have just said jobs that U.S. citizens could be doing. That doesn’t require any extra intelligence. It also doesn’t draw on the stereotypes rattling around in his head.
    Do you not find it Ironic that you are complaining that Trump brought race into that argument when Democrats bring race into every possible situation especially accusing people of being racists and white nationalists?
     
    Let's breakdown what is being said here.

    I already stated but I will say it again, I could take that stand...

    The stand Steve originally staked out was that he was going to vote independent because he didn't want to vote for Biden or Trump, because he didn't want either of them to be president. Now the stand he's taking is:


    1719783697061.png


    Now here's where it starts to get squirrelly.

    ...because I was convinced that my blue state of NJ would overwhelming vote for Biden.

    So the real and honest reason he wasn't going to vote for Biden or Trump was because he thought Biden was going to win his state easily and his vote wouldn't matter.

    Okily Dokily! Wait, hold on a minute, Steve originally told us for months that he was voting independent and tried to convince others to vote independent, because he didn't want Biden or Trump to be president, so he wouldn't give either of them his vote, and he "hates" Trump.

    And now this:
    Now my perception of that has changed...thus my stance has changed.
    So now that he thinks there's a chance Biden could lose his state, meaning Trump could win, he's going to vote for Trump, who he "hates" if Biden is on the ballot. But he doesn't want either of the to be president?

    Steve insisted he "hated" Trump as much as Biden, but here he is saying he's going to vote for Trump if Biden is on the ballot, because he thinks it's possible for Trump to win his state now. He went from claiming I don't want either of them to win so I'm voting independent to. Hey now that I think Trump's got a chance, I'm voting for Trump hoping he'll win.

    Steve is either a very confused and illogical person or a very dishonest person. I know which one I think it is, others are free to draw their own conclusion.

    Steve this really isn't personal on my part. I'm sure you're a very fine person. It's not about you for me. It's only and all about pointing out to as many people as I can how infected with dishonesty and duplicity Trump, everyone around him and everyone that supports him are. There is no honesty or integrity in Trump/the cult of Trump/MAGA/Trump's shills/Trump's supporters/Republican party. All that's there is ruthlessly self-serving intentions, dishonesty, deception, corruption and depravity.

    I'm going to call it out every time I think I see that in any area of my life, including on here. It's nothing personal, it's just is what it is. I don't take anything you say to me personally, Steve, so no worries on that front if you had any.
     

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    The media with a 180 degree change. I'm guessing prominent Democrats who want Biden out of the race are using their allies in the media to push that message.

     
    A stupid way to say jobs that black people hold. He said Hispanic jobs too.

    That's the point. Trump didn't sound like Obama, or even 2020 Trump. Dude was using this kind of phrasing, and going off incoherent tangents.
     
    The media with a 180 degree change. I'm guessing prominent Democrats who want Biden out of the race are using their allies in the media to push that message.



    This has been posted twice in this thread.


    This would have come from the Biden campaign. You don't need a narrative of prominent Democrats forcing out an old man. He is putting out messaging himself. That he is reconsidering his run.
     
    This has been posted twice in this thread.


    This would have come from the Biden campaign. You don't need a narrative of prominent Democrats forcing out an old man. He is putting out messaging himself. That he is reconsidering his run.
    Going out on a limb and will probably be wrong.. but my 51-49% gut feeling is that it happens.
     
    Going out on a limb and will probably be wrong.. but my 51-49% gut feeling is that it happens.

    I have no idea. It's strange to put this out there. It comes across like his camp is signaling a withdrawal.
     
    I have no idea. It's strange to put this out there. It comes across like his camp is signaling a withdrawal.
    Just following through on this thought.... his wife watched that debate performance too obviously and she knows as well as anyone what condition he's actually in on a day-to-day basis.. I could see her convincing him that it's time.
     
    That's pretty close. I will tweak it to make it accurate. I want Biden to lose. I have always wanted Biden to lose.
    But you also said for months that you wanted Trump to lose too. Every single time someone said you wanted Trump to win you adamantly denied it. Several people predicted that you would eventually say you were going to vote for Trump for the exact reasons you are now giving and you adamantly argued that you would never vote for Trump.

    That's the part you're not going to be able to wiggle your way out of. You lied to all of us and you can't undo that lie. There's a permanent record of it, even if you start editing or deleting your posts. Trump's tactic of lying and trying to rewrite history does not and will not work here.

    None of us are going to fall for your spins, gaslighting or revisionist history.

    The whole time you were lying to us about disliking Trump and Biden equally, you constantly spammed the board with misleading and false information that painted Biden in a negative light, articles that made arguments for voting a third party candidate, and nearly nothing negative about Trump. You occasionally claimed that you "hate Trump too and didn't want him to be president and you'd never vote for him," but here we are with you finally being honest that you always wanted Trump to win and everything else you said was just a piss poor attempt at a ruse.

    You were working an agenda my friend. You were doing what you could to try to convince people not to vote for Biden, because you like Trump and you always wanted him to win. You lying about supporting Trump is a bigger issue than you supporting Trump. You know I'm doing what I can to get people to vote for Biden, right? You know that because I'm upfront about that. I'm not hiding in the shadows about it. I'm buck arse naked under the high sun on a cloudless day about it. Why? Because I'm good with it and not ashamed of it.

    Why do you keep trying to hide your obvious support for Trump and your efforts to try to help him win? Why do you feel you need to hide that? Has it ever occurred to you that if you feel you need to hide it, maybe, just maybe, you know in your heart and mind that supporting and doing what you can to help Trump win is not the right thing for you to be doing?

    Stop digging and come into the light, amigo.

    I thought I wouldn't have to participate but now if Biden is on the ballot I might have to. Just make sure Biden is not on the ballot...ok?
    And there it is folks. There's the quacking out of turn that should give every one some comfort and assurance that Biden still has a good chance of winning the election. This guy wants Trump to win. We know that now. We also know that Trump supporters don't find Trump's propaganda, Trump's propaganda finds them and they choose to scarf it down hook, line and sinker. Everything Steve thinks and says is given to him to think and say. Everything Steve says here he got from Trump's propaganda. It's not personal, Steve, and it doesn't make you a bad person. It's just the truth.

    Look at what Steve just revealed. First is the surface level passive aggressive threat of "if you don't take Biden off the ballot, I'm voting for Trump." Steve knows that we now know that he's voting for Trump even if Biden is not on the ballot. So it's desperate on his part to make such a empty threat. So why is he making it even though he knows we know it's a toothless threat? Because the propaganda he's getting from Trump is banging the hell out of the Biden has to drop out drum. That's why SFL has been banging that same drum so loudly the past few weeks. They're both hearing it from Trump's propaganda, so they regurgitate it here.

    It's not a coincidence that Steve, el caliente, SFL, Sendai and maybe someone I'm forgetting all pounced on this thread at the same time reguritating the same propganda. They all got it at the same time from Trump. Even after Biden's poor performance Trump has intensified the propaganda banging the drum for Biden to drop out. Why would Trump being doing that? There's only one reason, because even after Biden's poor performance Trump is worried about losing to Biden. Trump's an overconfident blowhard. If he's worried about losing to Biden, it's because the internal data his campaign is collecting has him worried he's going to lose to Biden, AGAIN.

    Notice what Steve didn't say, that says even more that what he did say. He didn't say go ahead a leave Biden on the ballot and watch him lose to Trump. If Trump thougt Biden on the ballot would give him his best chance of winning, he wouldn't be pushing propaganda calling for Biden to step down. Trump and his propaganda would be completely silent on the issue or they would defend Biden staying on the ballot. That's not the message they are pusing across all forms of media. They are flooding the zone with the message that Biden has got to go.

    Everyone knows that when Trump says zig, you better damned well zag if you don't want to get screwed. Trump is telling us that Biden has to go from the ballet, which means that Biden probably should damn well stay on the ballot to give what Trump thinks is the best chance Trump will be beaten. That doesn't guarantee Trump will lose, but neither does switching candidates at the 10th hour that we're in. Again, when Trump tells me to zig, I'm zagging. Trump wants Biden out and that's the main reason I want him to stay in. Trump's campaign knows a lot more than political pundits and we do. Biden's campaign knows more than political pundits and we do. One thing I trust Biden on is that he's got a good data research team, good data, and thier data tells them they're in a better position than polls and the media say they are in. I don't think Biden or his campaign advisors would risk losing the country to Trump and the corpo-christo-fascists if their data shows they are in trouble.

    I'm confident and trust that they'll collect extensive data and track it closely and that if the data shows it would be better for Biden to drop out, then he will. If Biden stays in and Trump's supporters keep banging the drum on Biden needing to drop out, then I'll be confident that Biden is the best chance at beating Trump. If Trump and his supporters go quite on the issue, then I'll start getting anxious.
    I am done here for today. Tomorrow I am driving 7 plus hours for family tourism. Bye for now.
    Okay, Eric. You have fun at Casa Bonita. The rest of us will be waiting here for you when you come back with your ball.
     
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